Japan still considering total nuclear power pullout

Japan still considering total nuclear power pullout

Japan has not ruled out the possibility of complete closure of its nuclear power stations as one option for the country's future energy policy after the world's worst nuclear accident in 25 years, economy minister Yukio Edano said. "I am certain that we are going to reduce nuclear power generation but whether we are going to reduce it to zero is a separate issue," Edano, the economy, trade and industry minister told Reuters on the sidelines of a ministerial meeting hosted by the International Energy Agency in Paris. Asked whether pulling out of nuclear was being considered, Edano said: "Yes, it is still under consideration."

www.scientificamerican.com...

[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/update-1-japan-still-considering-total-nuclear-power-pullout/2011/10/18/gIQAwqHhuL_story.html[/url ]

www.reuters.com...

I think this is well worth a own Thread because of the impact for Japan
as well as the rest of the World!

We do not know what will happen in the future and i also have fear that the Price
we have to pay is tooooooo high, but anyway- F'Shima happened and we can't do much
at the moment and i, by my self can't do anything at all,
maybe i should be happy

What do you think?
What kind of a deal is this?
Do we believe this?
Is there hope?

sounds like a smart idea to me... no one should be using nuclear ANYTHING it is dangerous, uncontrollable, makes waste that will basically never be safe and must be stored in a safe/expensive way and is VERY bad for the environment.

reply to post by Human0815

I think the title of your thread is much more realistic than the title of this very related thread:
Japan to close ALL their nuclear power plants

As I said there, Japan is certainly not going to close all nuclear power plants anytime soon (or if they do, I'll be shocked).

I think they will continue to use facilities that are in reasonably good shape and not too close to a fault line.

Then the question boils down to whether any new facilities will be built, and how fast or slowly existing facilities will be shut down through attrition. Only time will tell on that topic for me.

My ten year "forecast" which is completely a guess, but I suspect a good one, us that nuclear power usage in Japan will be about the same number of kWh as it is today, meaning no net increase. Since power usage in total might go up in this time, that would make nuclear power a lower percentage of the total.

I'll be surprised if usage goes either up or down a lot in the next 10 years. But in 20 years, I don't really know, it seems like it could go either way to me. People have short memories and could start to forget about Fukushima and power shortages might result in more nuclear facilities being built. Or it could go the other way and by that time the licenses would be expiring, so with no replacement plants coming on line, nuclear power generation would fall.

But your guess may be as good as mine, or better.

I was so surprised that we survived the Summer without Black-Outs,
we decreased our daily Energy Demand for over 35%
and this happened even without a Plan!
(Only the Government People got an order to stay at 27 Celsius)

There are not many Countries who are able to save so much Energy
because of their Dis-organisation,
Japan (the Towns) it self is very organized, orderly and and informed.
In the last Years we had a Energy Saving- Economy Support- Tax Release Program
( i do not know in English)
People who bought new Products like a Refrigerator, TV, Household Stuff, etc. produced in Japan
and with a Energy Saver / safe environmental Level got a Tax Reduction,
when we make this Program bigger we can upgrade a lot of Stuff to a new Level,
together with an increase of independent/ Governmental Studies in for example Solar-Energy
we may be able to reduce up to 60% and when we reconsider Alu-Cans, Neon Lit Roads
and the blaring Shopping Center and Pashinko Parlors we can reduce even more!

But on the other Side:
Japan is the Nr. 1 Producer of Nuclear Plants
and the Government as well as some very big and influential Companies spend
"a lot of Money" (a lot o lot)
i am doubtful that they are able or willing to go the German- Siemens Way

One more good article about why Control cant work here

Noda, tear down this 'nuclear village'

The following is a brief list of reasons why nuclear power plants cannot be operated safely in Japan.

Amakudari: Japan's system of amakudari (descent from heaven), in which bureaucrats retire from their ministries to take up lucrative positions in the companies they formerly "regulated," means that there is no real distinction between regulator and regulated in Japan. Indeed, it's fair to say that certain powerful industries actually regulate the ministries that are tasked with regulating them. Remember: The retired bureaucrats who have become industry executives remain senpai to the younger bureaucrats who remain in the ministries (their former kōhai). It is unthinkable that these kōhai could effectively regulate their former senpai — for it would involve an inversion of one of the most fundamental relationships in Japanese life. Perhaps no industry is as rife with amakudari as the nuclear business. Tepco is typical, with four company vice-presidents between 1959 and 2010 coming from Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency (NISA), the main ministry tasked with overseeing the nuclear industry.

Capitalist-development state structure: On its face, amakudari seems like a perversion of the proper relationship between ministries and industries, but it's important to realize that Japan's ministries were never intended to regulate industry. Rather, they were intended to promote it. This is a form of government known as the "capitalist development state," in which the state actively fosters the growth of selected industries through a partnership between industry and bureaucracy (ministries). In August, the NISA was split off from the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry (METI), which is tasked with promoting industry (including the nuclear power industry). However, the NISA is still staffed with nuclear-friendly insiders who will be rewarded with lucrative posts in the nuclear industry upon retirement. In short, this is merely a cosmetic change that will not lead to effective regulation of Japan's nuclear industry.

Campaign cash from the electric power industry: Between 2007 and 2009, the Democratic Party of Japan received at least ¥91 million from electric power plant worker unions. Likewise, in 2009 the Liberal Democratic Party received almost ¥28 million from executives in electric power companies. Given the strong pronuclear bias of Japan's electric power companies, this effectively guarantees Japanese government support for nuclear power.

Corrupted academics: The Japanese nuclear industry provides generous support to academic institutions and individual professors in order to influence their views on nuclear power. Tokyo University (Todai) has benefited more than any other institution from the nuclear industry's largess: An astonishing number of Todai professors and administrators leave the university to take up positions at Tepco (a form of academic amakudari), including the former president of Todai, Hiroshi Komiyama, who now holds the position of auditor at Tepco. The result is that the elite of Japan receives an education that is decidedly pronuclear, while research into the dangers of nuclear power is actively discouraged.

www.japantimes.co.jp...

This is from one of the most important Newspaper here in Nippon!

America needs to get rid of the USS Forestal, plus the Enterprise nuclear reactored aircraft carrier.


Why doesn't Japan just put it's nuclear power plants on floating platforms in the ocean? On old aircraft carriers or oil rigs?

They'd be protected from Earthquakes, Tsunami's, plus they'd be movable.

Something goes wrong....pull the plug and sink it...or get it to the Marianas Trench with a Robotic Tug then sink it.

Japan needs to use their brains.

Originally posted by Pervius

Why doesn't Japan just put it's nuclear power plants on floating platforms in the ocean? On old aircraft carriers or oil rigs?

They'd be protected from Earthquakes, Tsunami's, plus they'd be movable.

Something goes wrong....pull the plug and sink it...or get it to the Marianas Trench with a Robotic Tug then sink it.

Japan needs to use their brains.

I am very sorry and do not want to sound indiscreet but two questions:
1.: How old are you?
2.: Do you understand the Problem?

You cant sink that Stuff without a further Disaster,
you cant even touch or get close to it at the moment!

Maybe in 25 Years we can go close to the core but not yet!

www.financialexpress.com...

Dismantling Nuclear Reactors

There are many sources, just look for:
"Dismantling a Nuclear Powerplant"
but do not forget that this Plants was not highly damaged

And sorry because of this question but it sounds so, hmmm, simple and easy going

Originally posted by Human0815
This is from one of the most important Newspaper here in Nippon!

[rant]
ok, I know you're kind of new to Japan, so just as a friendly heads up: The Japan Times is nowhere even close to being the most important newspaper in Japan. They're one of the most widely available English language newspapers in Japan, but let's face it - their circulation is in the tens of thousands. Compare that with the yomiuri shimbun - they're over 4 million in Tokyo alone. And that's just the morning edition. And they're not the biggest.

Try the (english) daily yomiuri - they've got a lot more coverage of japanese news, and it tends to be a lot more timely as well. A lot of the Japan Times articles tend to be a couple of days behind, more if you're out in the inaka and have to wait an extra day to get your paper. The JT always struck me as a newspaper for people who wanted to keep tabs on news back home and get a general feel for news in Japan. Canceled my subscription 7 years ago. [/rant]

As far as the nuke pullout goes:

There will be no new ground broken for nuclear power construction in Japan in my lifetime. I'm willing to bet on that. The public won't stand for it, and no politician would be willing to risk it. And I can't see anything happening in the next few decades that's going to change things.

Over the next decade, there will be an increased move to alternative sources of energy. Government funding for R&D is said to be in the pipeline on a very very large scale.

We've already seen the beginnings of what's to come with the softbank solar project, and everyone that deals with tech in any way is working on reducing power consumption needs of their products AND pumping R&D funds into alternative generation (Panasonic will have a big announcement on that front in the next few weeks.). There are a lot of new projects - notably with wind - that have been given a quick green light as well recently. And I don't know about you, but I've been seeing solar panels going up left and right since about June - both residential and businesses.

The bottom line though: we can't turn off the nuclear power today, even if we wanted to. It's just not an option. Turn it off, and the country goes dark for the next few years while a replacement is found. It's not going to be immediate, and it's not going to be easy. But it IS coming, and it will come.

If you're still unconvinced, follow the money. Public companies - Hitachi, Mitsubishi, Softbank, Toyota, Honda, Panasonic, Toshiba, Sumimoto, ....hell, just about all of the of the Nikkei 225 are placing their bets on alternative energy via serious R&D or infrastructure investments. Probably won't see solid figures until the end of the fiscal, but they'll come, and I'd be willing to bet that the total R&D figure alone will be more than TEPCO is worth - and the power those companies wield collectively far outweighs any lobby group when it comes to public policy.

Originally posted by vox2442

Originally posted by Human0815
This is from one of the most important Newspaper here in Nippon!

[rant]
ok, I know you're kind of new to Japan, so just as a friendly heads up: The Japan Times is nowhere even close to being the most important newspaper in Japan. They're one of the most widely available English language newspapers in Japan, but let's face it - their circulation is in the tens of thousands. Compare that with the yomiuri shimbun - they're over 4 million in Tokyo alone. And that's just the morning edition. And they're not the biggest.

Try the (english) daily yomiuri - they've got a lot more coverage of japanese news, and it tends to be a lot more timely as well. A lot of the Japan Times articles tend to be a couple of days behind, more if you're out in the inaka and have to wait an extra day to get your paper. The JT always struck me as a newspaper for people who wanted to keep tabs on news back home and get a general feel for news in Japan. Canceled my subscription 7 years ago. [/rant]

As far as the nuke pullout goes:

There will be no new ground broken for nuclear power construction in Japan in my lifetime. I'm willing to bet on that. The public won't stand for it, and no politician would be willing to risk it. And I can't see anything happening in the next few decades that's going to change things.

Over the next decade, there will be an increased move to alternative sources of energy. Government funding for R&D is said to be in the pipeline on a very very large scale.

We've already seen the beginnings of what's to come with the softbank solar project, and everyone that deals with tech in any way is working on reducing power consumption needs of their products AND pumping R&D funds into alternative generation (Panasonic will have a big announcement on that front in the next few weeks.). There are a lot of new projects - notably with wind - that have been given a quick green light as well recently. And I don't know about you, but I've been seeing solar panels going up left and right since about June - both residential and businesses.

The bottom line though: we can't turn off the nuclear power today, even if we wanted to. It's just not an option. Turn it off, and the country goes dark for the next few years while a replacement is found. It's not going to be immediate, and it's not going to be easy. But it IS coming, and it will come.

If you're still unconvinced, follow the money. Public companies - Hitachi, Mitsubishi, Softbank, Toyota, Honda, Panasonic, Toshiba, Sumimoto, ....hell, just about all of the of the Nikkei 225 are placing their bets on alternative energy via serious R&D or infrastructure investments. Probably won't see solid figures until the end of the fiscal, but they'll come, and I'd be willing to bet that the total R&D figure alone will be more than TEPCO is worth - and the power those companies wield collectively far outweighs any lobby group when it comes to public policy.

Imagine that powerful companies spending money to do what is right by the people. Maybe we should give the american companies a scapegoat company to get on the bandwagon against for public opinion.

Originally posted by SinDefiant
Imagine that powerful companies spending money to do what is right by the people. Maybe we should give the american companies a scapegoat company to get on the bandwagon against for public opinion.

I wouldn't go that far.

Companies spend money on things that will make them money. In this case, anyone who can supply Japan with clean energy will get a lot of money in return. ROI of 1000% and then some.

That it just happens to be in the public interest is coincidental. Think of it as a bonus.

Originally posted by vox2442

I wouldn't go that far.

Companies spend money on things that will make them money. In this case, anyone who can supply Japan with clean energy will get a lot of money in return. ROI of 1000% and then some.

That it just happens to be in the public interest is coincidental. Think of it as a bonus.

I think this is a very important sentence,
too many People, spec. here in Japan, awaiting something
and forget the develop/er/ing skill every Human hold by Birth,
it is up to us to develop solutions, new techniques and new instruments!

"We" need to educate the next Generation to be more creative
and we need Universities free of any (nuclear) interest,
the thing what is happened here in Japan pasts
is kind of a intellectual incest.