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An interesting new way to use DU tank rounds in Iraqi street fighting

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posted on Apr, 8 2003 @ 04:40 AM
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The officers said the tank unit fired two 120 mm high velocity depleted uranium rounds straight down the main road, creating a powerful vacuum that literally sucked guerrillas out from their hideaways into the street, where they were shot down by small arms fire or run over by the tanks.


Reuters




posted on Jun, 1 2003 @ 02:36 PM
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Does anyone else have any info on this ?



posted on Jun, 1 2003 @ 10:17 PM
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I thought depleted uranium shells were effective as they were denser than lead, thefore punching a hole through the tanks armor and then exploding inside in a fiery ball which i think they call "Brewing up" Which burns everyone inside into a crisp or very very badly.



posted on Jun, 1 2003 @ 10:24 PM
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No, DU will puch right through a tanks armor, sucking the occupants out through the exit hole. Ever seen the movie aliens, like the first one. where in the end Weaver busts the glass and that alien gets sucked through the hole, simular but way faster.



posted on Jun, 1 2003 @ 10:26 PM
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Originally posted by mad scientisturl=http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=focusIraqNews&storyID=2471789]Reuters[/url]


your link site has no text?



posted on Jun, 1 2003 @ 10:52 PM
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Advisor, i think you're very mistaken about that. DU is only a material denser than lead, not some kind of miraculous hypervelocity projectile, its rather like a SABOT in operation except it explodes on the inside.
*waits for dragonrider*



posted on Oct, 21 2004 @ 04:04 PM
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Originally posted by David
Advisor, i think you're very mistaken about that. DU is only a material denser than lead, not some kind of miraculous hypervelocity projectile, its rather like a SABOT in operation except it explodes on the inside.
*waits for dragonrider*


Du is pyrophoric meaning it combusts when it hits an object at highspeed. Normally after it penetrates a tank it flash heats the inside cusing flammable materials to combust,



posted on Oct, 21 2004 @ 04:32 PM
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MadScientist, linky no worky



posted on Oct, 21 2004 @ 04:37 PM
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Wow it sucks them out?! That's American enginuity for ya.



posted on Oct, 21 2004 @ 04:43 PM
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Originally posted by Azza
MadScientist, linky no worky


Sorry, but the link is old and has expired.



posted on Oct, 21 2004 @ 04:58 PM
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Ok, ok, ok....

Soooo, does this really have a "vacum" effect when shot? I have never even heard of this property of DU shells. I understand that they melt (to a plasma form) when they hit their target essencially burning its way through the target, but I have never heard of this vacum effect.

Anyone else confirm this?, not that I dont trust Mad Scientist I just find this odd that it never been talked about before.

Also does anyone know the science behind this? A link would be good, or a "laymans terms" description. Thanks.


Edit: (Mad Scientist, Mad props! You've had many interesting threads today, keep em comin!)

[edit on 10/21/04 by HumptyDumpty]



posted on Oct, 21 2004 @ 05:04 PM
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So this tactic sucked the insugents out of their firing positions and then they machine gunned them and ran them over with the tanks????? Where was this tactic used?????

Not something I have ever heard of.



posted on Oct, 21 2004 @ 05:19 PM
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Hundreds of Iraqis killed in four-day battle for Kifl
Reuters AlertNet | 29 Mar 2003 19:45:36 GMT | By Kieran Murray

KIFL, Iraq, March 29 (Reuters) - When U.S. tanks rumbled into this town on the Euphrates river, irregular Iraqi forces set up sniper nests up and down the main street, opening fire from doors, windows, market stalls and patches of open ground.

A crimson sunset painted the street red and visibility fell to less than five meters (15 feet) as a swirling sand and dust storm kicked up when the guerrilla units attacked.

U.S. officers said fighters in minivans, pick-up trucks and cars drove straight at the oncoming tanks. Others took to canoes, rowing down the river and trying to fix explosives to the main bridge.

But the guerrilla-style forces were vastly outgunned by the tanks of the U.S. Army's 3rd Infantry Division, and hundreds of Iraqis have died in this town over the last four days.

The officers said the tank unit fired two 120 mm high velocity depleted uranium rounds straight down the main road, creating a powerful vacuum that literally sucked guerrillas out from their hideaways into the street, where they were shot down by small arms fire or run over by the tanks.

"It was mad chaos like you cannot imagine," said the tank unit's commander, who identified himself as "Cobra 6" as he did not want friends and neighbours back home to know what he had been through.

"We took a lot of fire, and we gave a lot of fire," he said.

"You couldn't see anything except all those hues of red and the sound of fire from all sides. It was not earthly. I'll have nightmares about it."

Dozens of bodies still littered the streets on Saturday.

Some were wrapped in blue and black body bags, but others were still out in the open, rotting in the midday sun. Several spilled out of their charred and shattered cars and trucks, burned beyond recognition.

HIGH COST

Iraq's efforts to stall the U.S. military advance towards Baghdad appear to include putting elite officers in with irregular paramilitary or guerrilla structures at strategic points.

In Kifl, which lies north of Najaf and about 130 km (81 miles) south of Baghdad, the strategy may have slowed the U.S. forces, but only at an extremely high cost.

Some U.S. soldiers estimate that at least 1,000 Iraqis were killed here since the fighting began at dusk on Wednesday, and everyone puts the number in the hundreds.

Officers say just one U.S. soldier has died.

Sporadic mortar fire and bursts of sniper fire kept U.S. troops alert in the town late on Saturday, but officers said most of the resistance in the town had been overcome.

The main danger was now posed by an artillery unit about 16 km (10 miles) to the north.

"I'm sure there are still some knuckleheads in the town, but the real problem is what's outside," said Colonel Joseph Anderson of the 101st Airborne Division, which moved in to help secure Kifl on Saturday.

Wave after wave of Iraqi soldiers and paramilitaries had set up mortar positions at an old brick factory on the edge of town, getting dropped off from civilian vehicles at a large tree that U.S. forces here now call the "Gateway to Hell".

U.S. officers said they had destroyed up to 50 vehicles making drop-offs there, adding the brick factory, like much of Kifl, was now virtually abandoned.

The canoes lie empty on the river beds and only U.S. soldiers walk up and down the town's main streets.

Some families were still seen in their homes on the edge of town on Saturday, tending to sheep and goats as U.S. tanks and trucks rolled by with nervous soldiers looking out over the fields, their guns loaded for any new guerrilla threat.

While the guerrilla tactics appeared to have failed in Kifl, the Iraqis claimed responsibility for a suicide car bomb which killed at least four U.S. soldiers on Saturday at a military checkpoint near Najaf.



posted on Oct, 21 2004 @ 05:21 PM
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Why did you resurrect a 16 month old topic?



posted on Oct, 21 2004 @ 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by Nerdling
Why did you resurrect a 16 month old topic?


There wasn't any closure



posted on Oct, 21 2004 @ 05:26 PM
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Originally posted by Nerdling
Why did you resurrect a 16 month old topic?


must of been bored



posted on Oct, 21 2004 @ 05:45 PM
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DU rounds were developed because R&D established that these rounds had the greatest certainty of penetrating the latest cold war era soviet armour.

I do not know the exact science behind it, but the density of the DU round allows it to punch through modern armour plate.

concentrated tungsten (like the fine filaments used in some lightblobes) was a close second.

I beleive the US was the only nation to adopt DU rounds, most anybody else who could afford them and had the ability to manufacture them went with Tungsten cored rounds, for a number of reasons.

There was also a cost issue, but I don't know for sure which is which. But both are expensive. Hence the other types of round carried in a load out of the tank according to its need. No opposition armour in Iraq anymore so I do not think you would see many if any in the current loadout of vehicles in Iraq, although I have no doubt there are rounds in stock in the local ammo duumps.

This effect of firing a 120mm gun in a street doesn't sound implausible but they wouldnt need to load a DU to achieve it.

Again, I am no expert but there is a cause and effect in firing powerful guns like this. It has to do with what the blast effect does to the air around the gun when it fires.

WW2 accounts of the Battleships in action demonstrated what happened when these guns fired. I have seen pictures of USN floatplanes on turret mounted catapults shattered and crushed by the blast effects coming out of the muzzles. If you have ever seen photos of one of the Iowa class firing a 16" broadside you will know what I mean. The effect described is much like what causes that ripple effect in the water. There are accounts of sailors in WW2 who were caught out or thought they were smarter than thier superiors who were sucked right off the deck or had the life sucked out of them by the concussive affects of air and soundwaves of the blasts.

Its why most anti tank rockets and recoiless weapons have what we call a BBDA (Back Blast Danger Area) a cone of danger immediately behind the weapon it is advisable for ones collegues stand clear of.

It sounds from other posts that the use of the DU rounds in that fashion have been de-bunked. But then you'd only need for one clueless gunner to load a DU for it to be true, wouldnt you?



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