Why do people believe in redistrubution of wealth and more taxes for the rich?

Well there is a lot of talk about "get a job" and anyone can get ahead, but that wasn't the point of my topic.

This economy is terrible. I have been technically unemployed for about two years now, running my own individual business. Now I COULD go out there and get any random factory job, work 10 hours a day for minimum wage with mandatory overtime and forced weekends - but I'm not going to. Want to know why?

Because I still believe in the American dream.

Back in some dark corner of this black abyss we've gotten ourselves into, there is still the fiber that once pushed people with the ideal that they could grow up from nothing to be absolutely ANYTHING they wanted to be. It wasn't about making money, it wasn't about survival, it was about doing what you loved to do.

Now, not all people would achieve this dream because not all people would try hard enough. Some people slacked off through half of their lives and expected to live lives of luxury and it didn't happen. They found themselves asking why, and before the collapse, they had no right to. It was all on them because when I was still in school, the American Dream was alive and well and I was ready to embrace it.

But how do I feel now? I graduate college and all of a sudden it is all taken away. The younger generation no longer has the choice of the American Dream, they have the choice of corporation A versus Corporation B, each competing salaries of minimum wage to whoever will take it. In my area, unless you are willing to work third shift positions - there are no jobs.

And as far as moving away to find jobs? Where to? It isn't like the problem is location specific. Jobs that once thrived in America are now non-existent or the markets are completely flooded with people who lost other jobs. I know people that apply for jobs that they have no business even looking at due to lack of qualifications, but they do it anyway, and thus the whole economy is brought down with them.

I created my own business because it was the only thing that I could do while still trying to keep the "dream" alive. The moment it becomes about making money just to make money, regardless of your happiness, well, I made the decision a long time ago that it wasn't for me. I made up my mind back when I was in elementary school that when I grew up, I was going to do what I WANTED to do for a living, regardless of what it takes. And now, I am, to the best of my abilities, until I can one day climb that ladder and do what I always wanted to do.

And when that day comes, if I ever make a billion dollars, there is going to be no one telling me that it is the limit. There is going to be nobody telling me what I can and can't do with that money. Me, being a moral and ethical person am going to do with that money what I see fit and distribute it where I want to see progress. That is the honor I earn. That is the right I get for bringing myself from so low up to that point. That is the privilege and right that every person who has built a business from the ground up should be able to do, and if they end up being greedy #holes, then so be it. Life will go on and they will become the social pariahs that they choose to be. Now if only people would wake up and start treating them that way. If people started treating the unethical goons they way they SHOULD be treated, then their businesses wouldn't be raking in billions in profits. They would be making nothing, and if they ever wanted to make anything - they would start sympathizing with the people.

You can blame this on the wealthy all you want, but it is YOU that has to support them. It is YOU that buys their products. It is YOU that lays silent while government passes the means for the endless corruption to overtake them.

Only when people start laying blame on themselves instead of trying to throw it in every other direction, will they be able to change themselves, change their outlooks, change their decisions, and ultimately change this world.

That is my two cents on the issue. People deserve and equal change - PERIOD. Maybe if the wealthy tax supporters here would have been born into a different life, they would understand why someone might not want their work taken from them and treated unequally. If anything, most of them worked harder to get to the point than anyone on here could hope to claim. Until the time comes when you put enough effort in to make your first million dollars, I don't believe you have any room to talk.

With that said, I bid adieu for the evening.

look up game theory.
the point is that if left unchecked the people at the top will eventually have everything.
unless of course they are just complete idiots.
it is just math.

Originally posted by gwydionblack
You can blame this on the wealthy all you want, but it is YOU that has to support them. It is YOU that buys their products. It is YOU that lays silent while government passes the means for the endless corruption to overtake them.

Only when people start laying blame on themselves instead of trying to throw it in every other direction, will they be able to change themselves, change their outlooks, change their decisions, and ultimately change this world.

I have to disagree slightly here:

There was a thread a few days ago that tried to uncover the main backers behind pretty much every advertisement seen on TV with the root being the same handful of investment corporations for the majority of the cases. The problem is that no matter what product you buy or boycott you will always be feeding into the same greedy pocket as they have their fingers in many, many pies.

Edit to add: www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by gwydionblack


I don't think they do. People believe in charging the wealthy the same rate of income tax as everyone else. Right now they are able to evade and dodge paying taxes the rest of us cannot. One of them not paying is equal to a thousand of us not paying. When we had a 3 trillion dollar surplus GWB thought it was a good idea to give them a tax break. Now we are broke and cannot afford the tax break for them any longer.

It is like if I let you drive my car for awhile it does not somehow after a period of time magically revert to being YOUR car. It is still my car. Asking for my car back is not REDISTRIBUTING anything. It was always my car.
The wealthy should not have got attached to the tax breaks their crony GWB provided in a moment of idiotic and shameless entitlement.

Originally posted by The Benevolent Adversary
look up game theory.
the point is that if left unchecked the people at the top will eventually have everything.
unless of course they are just complete idiots.
it is just math.

Well maybe, but in the real world people die off. Just watch what happens to lets say Gates when he kicks the bucket, it will do its own "reset"

reply to post by newcovenant


I interested in why people do not understand nor comprehend that the top pay on an average 29% and pay 90% of all income taxes already....

Why do we focus on these fictionalized scrooges that though some do exist, but facts (look at the next line up) are facts.

reply to post by Xtrozero

To have the highest corporation tax in the world is not the way to bring jobs home.

Okay, I'm gonna back off of you now.
But, I am also gonna point out that this is the same answer I got from my Congressman and my Senator when I told them to listen to Dylan whoever's tirade about how govt is too owned by corps, once for each member of their "constituency"....and twice more for my kids who are now not living in this statte....

Here’s a conspiracy. Maybe because they are buying into what the rich want, you say the rich are the rulers of our world, the so called "one percent"... What if by making them pay more taxes they only gain more sway, with our governments? What if they want you to throw equality around like a sack of rocks? What if we are playing right into the hands of our money hungry politicians, who make policy based on lobby; and not on the people’s voice? What if we are screwed?

Then again, what if everything isn’t a conspiracy? What if everything is as stupid as it seems?

Originally posted by wildtimes

To have the highest corporation tax in the world is not the way to bring jobs home.

Okay, I'm gonna back off of you now.
But, I am also gonna point out that this is the same answer I got from my Congressman and my Senator when I told them to listen to Dylan whoever's tirade about how govt is too owned by corps, once for each member of their "constituency"....and twice more for my kids who are now not living in this statte....

Corporations are a slippery slope. They can be both good and bad, I agree, and I do agree we need to fix many things associated with them. I just get worked up when we start to talk about limiting individuals for whatever reason, because once you let that genie out of the bottle you can't get him back in.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
reply to post by newcovenant

 

I interested in why people do not understand nor comprehend that the top pay on an average 29% and pay 90% of all income taxes already....

Why do we focus on these fictionalized scrooges that though some do exist, but facts (look at the next line up) are facts.

edit on 18-10-2011 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)

How much of that money is then returned to them in the form of loop holes and entitlements?

And why are they getting so much richer while everyone else is getting poorer? There are statistics to prove a great disparity. If there was any equality at all this should be some similar downturn for rich and poor alike...but it isn't. Middle class is vanishing and the super rich is growing.... at about the same dramatic rate.





And last...
Stephen Colbert demonstrates how trickle down economics benefits all Americans...warning: heavy sarcasm. www.colbertnation.com...

There is no redistribution of any wealth.

Earth and natural resources weren't created by any man so they don't belong to them in the first place.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
I interested in why people do not understand nor comprehend that the top pay on an average 29% and pay 90% of all income taxes already....

Of course they pay the most taxes, they have a massive majority of the overall income.

This is a symptom of the problem.

reply to post by gwydionblack


It's very simple. Since the 1970s there has been a systematic redistribution of wealth via:
1. Revisions to the tax code vastly favoring rich and corporations
2. New tax avoidance industry created favoring same groups
3. new regulations imposed placing barriers to competition
4. Systematic reversal of anti trade and unfair business practices

Back in the 60s there were 80% tax brackets for the very rich. Today many of the same people pay Zero 0%

If you can't understand this, the propaganda has been very sucessful on you!

Originally posted by Xtrozero
reply to post by wildtimes

 

Networking is probably the most influential method, if you know someone that is literary one foot in the door...these are suggestion only. I don't know you, nor do I know why you cannot find a job across America, as I said maybe it is time to retool your skills, but to get back on topic, I don't think extreme taxes on the rich or capping them will get you a job, or more importantly create new jobs.

To get jobs back in America we need to make it worth it. To have the highest corporation tax in the world is not the way to bring jobs home. I would find it more logical to have a nationwide movement to not buy products from these companies that do things that are negative to society, but hey here in Portland all the occupiers are hard at it on their IPhones and computers, I would love to see the look on their faces if it was suggested that all of them should break their IPhones in protest... hehe

How can we ever make it "worth it" for the jobs to come back? The answer is we can't...unless we realize the party is over and America NOW has to work for the same wages as the rest of the world...because the economy is globalized now.

Either American's will have to be willing to work for $1 per hour, or we're going to have to raise the rest of the world to our expected level. Simple as that...

for me, its simple. almost all of them make their money in financial services, or with OPM, and it it's not that, it's the consumers who make them rich in the first place

if they had any brains at all, they would be out front making sure the consumers on the bottom of the pyramid still have money to spend, or the whole thing comes crashing down

Originally posted by Xtrozero
reply to post by newcovenant

 

I interested in why people do not understand nor comprehend that the top pay on an average 29% and pay 90% of all income taxes already....

Why do we focus on these fictionalized scrooges that though some do exist, but facts (look at the next line up) are facts.

edit on 18-10-2011 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)

This is simple.

The top paying 29% or even 99% makes sense because............here it comes.............................they're the ONLY ones who HAVE it to pay it!

Place three people in a room. They work for you, you pay one $100 per hour, the other $50 per hour and the last you pay nothing. How much money does the last guy have to pay you rent with?

Money is finite.....if you OWN 99% you should be responsible for 99%.

Why do people believe in redistrubution of wealth and more taxes for the rich?

Maybe cause they want to behave like human beings.
I just read this in another post ... and that´s we can´t afford to lose. Humanity.

Japanese boy teaches Vietnamese policeman lesson in sacrifice

If people are smart, they will find ways to not give their money to the the wealthy but most people aren't smart and that is unfortunate.
fyi, I am totally on the same page as the OP here.

reply to post by DZAG Wright


So does that mean our corporate executives will work for the same scales as executives elsewhere?

Say merely 20x the average worker's salary as opposed to 150x-453x some of them rake in now?

I've said it for many years, people, need to take responsibility for their own lives. If you get into trouble, then don't expect to steal from me via taxation, to bail you out.

But guess what, I have given hundreds of dollars to my friends/family who made bad decisions, and I had to bail them out.

Don't demand theft of my money for your folly, but instead, be appreciative of a fellow human being who helped you when you were down on your luck.

Personally, I have never taken a dime from the government, but they take thousands from me every year.

Having said that, there are forces at work, in this world, which seem to conspire against the common man's success. But the common man, must not turn to theft to make up for his bad luck, he must instead be cognizant of where he is at, and the risks that he faces, and make wise decisions, to ensure his own success.

I learned from a young age, that you don't get a raise, and then work harder.

First, you work harder, and then after about a year or so, you will be rewarded.

Where is the work ethic in this country?

But, today we are living in extraordinary times, when most of manufacturing has been outsourced, the banks have taken bailouts, to excuse their fraudulent practices.

But even in the midst of all this mayhem, people still have to hold themselves accountable for their own destiny.