Why do people believe in redistrubution of wealth and more taxes for the rich?

reply to post by Xtrozero


You tell me!!!!
EDIT TO ADD:
You seem to have all the knowledge and answers!
WHY can't I get even an interview at Cabella's, CVS, the local grocer's, etc.?
Huh?

WHY????

Originally posted by Indigo5

Originally posted by Crakeur

Originally posted by SeleneLux

There really are just 1% that hold the majority of wealth and power. When it is that far out of proportion then these people did not make this money in any ethical or moral way and are criminals that are protected because the massive sums of wealth make them above the law.

So, Larry Page, Sergey Brin, Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg etc all made their money in unethical or immoral ways? I'll give you Zuckerberg and his winklevossing facebook and ignoring privacy concerns but, even then, it isn't immoral or unethical. Just sleazy.

Explain how Steve Jobs, Brin, Page etc made their money in an unethical or immoral manner.

I would argue that it is a segment of the wealthiest 1% who have influenced regulations, earmarks, the tax code and legislation to favor the uber-rich, but all of the 1% benefit from that manipulation.

Thus yes....Steve Jobs, Buffet et al. benefit and have ammassed some funds that they would not posses if not for the skewed playing field. For most of the uber-rich, thier wealth was accumulated in accordance with a structually biased playing field.

The most honest of the 1% publically acknowledge this.

edit on 18-10-2011 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-10-2011 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)

Actually: Jobs stole a lot of ideas for the original Mac OS from Xerox, PARC.

reply to post by apacheman


I guess you don't own clothing, a computer, one of the 4 million iphone 4s sold in the first weekend, an mp3 player, a car, a tv, shoes, food, sporting goods, etc.

corporations produce more things than corporations that toy with derivatives

I don't want their money. I just want the corruption gone. The world is owned and run by criminals. It's as simple as that. The world needs a "Reset" button. If that means "redistribution of wealth", whatever that really means, so be it. Most of the money isn't backed by anything, anyway, so it's worthless.

Originally posted by apacheman

What makes you think the USSR capped wealth?

I never heard about it if they did.

Communism as practiced in the USSR was a form of totalitarianism, just as capitalism as practiced in the US is a form of oligarchic plutocracy.

Yet another strawman argument. I'm beginning to believe you are incapable of anything approaching rational thought and discussion.

You have decided that we or the world can just cap some upper limit to wealth and you call that rational. You think the trouble we are in is caused from all the billionaires so you want to limit their influence while not looking at our Government as the problem. I agree there needs to be fundamental changes, but focusing on the individual is not the right way to do it. I only brought up Obama because he started the platform of a class society and to blame the evil rich and not him for our troubles. I must say he is smart and has been successful with this.

Most likely 5 billion of our new 7 billion would population live in squalor so what do we set as a living standard to raise them up to as we lower the other 2 billion down to it. Why not? You want to dictate the living standard on the top 1%?

I find your ideals that to set an artificial limit to wealth will fix our woes and will not have negative repercussion on our society as simple.... like a child would think a boat moves because it goes put put put simple.

Things are just not that simple.

reply to post by Xtrozero

I agree there needs to be fundamental changes,

SUCH AS????

Dude, you don't even have the guts to respond to people's legit arguments.
Who are you???

OP, here is my reasoning:

there is a pervasive attitude toward our worlds scarce resources which can be compared to a potluck dinner. those people who have found themselves earliest in the service que think that they are somehow more entitled to eat up whatever portion of food they desire. the inevitable result is very slim pickings for the folks at the end.

so, to complete the analogy, simply because you arrived on this planet first and managed to establish a trans-generational scheme to "lay claim" to OUR SHARED resources, does not legitimize said claim.

this does NOT include value-added processes, which are the ONLY thing a producer may lay claim to and legitimately profit from. unfortunately, the actual value added to the system represents only a tiny proportion of the wealth of the system.

the remaining portion of that wealth is properly the property of the planet at large. as such, it must be preserved from generation to generation by ensuring a recirculation of that wealth, rather than its hoarding.


in short: it is the responsibility of those at the front of the potluck dinner line to ensure that there is sufficient food to go around.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
You think the trouble we are in is caused from all the billionaires so you want to limit their influence while not looking at our Government as the problem.

The influence of "the billionaires" is what prevents "the government" from being fixed

The Government is not inept by mistake.

It is deliberately crippled and manipulated.

reply to post by tgidkp

in short: it is the responsibility of those at the front of the potluck dinner line to ensure that there is sufficient food to go around.

A-freaking-men.
Thank you.

It really disturbs me that there are people who are so well off they can discuss the "choice" of giving to those in need. I just don't understand it.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

You tell me!!!!
EDIT TO ADD:
You seem to have all the knowledge and answers!
WHY can't I get even an interview at Cabella's, CVS, the local grocer's, etc.?
Huh?

WHY????

edit on 18-10-2011 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)

No I don't have all the answers, but I have a lot of experience.

You have very little chance to get a local low paying job and the reason is because a pimple face kid can be hired for less and is not a threat, or may be viewed as a longer employment option with you leaving as soon as the next best thing comes along....for the pimple face kid that job is the best he can do at that point in time, SO you will not be hired.

10 years ago I said the 2 best jobs a person can have and work anywhere is school teacher or nurse, well these days being a school teacher might mean you are out of work. A friend of mine applied for a teaching job that paid 1/2 of his old job and there was like 1000 apps for the one position. Teaching is NOT a good job today to work towards. Your advance experience might be much like what teachers see today. Times change, but there are still highly needed skills out there, and I know it really sucks when you reached your point in life and you decide to basically start over. Another friend of mine retired after 24 years in the military and went to school to be a nurse, which was 180 degree off from his military experience, but he can work just about anywhere today. I had to learn from scratch after I retire too, but I got hired on my education and past experience and the new skills I grew over time. Today after 3 1/2 years I'm very completive in my new career field, so it is not like really starting over from scratch.

Though you would move in a heartbeat, have you applied relentlessly, weekly, across America for a job? Have you used, weekly, all the online job sites to find a job, have you thought about Canada with their socialized healthcare system and what kind of employment opportunities they might have in your expertise?

None of this is easy though, but work is still out there.

In modern times, the idea of taxation is to pay back into society to ensure that those who can help those who can't. Its a novel idea and I, for one, am more than happy to pay a higher rate of tax on my income as I can still live comfortably on what I have left which is more than what some people get as "minimum wage" and still survive.

I do, however, take issue with how our taxes are spent. I pay with the understanding that my money will be reinvested into services such as health, schooling, social care and promoting local business however what I see is all our taxes diverted to a failing banking system and more critical services being cut back.

There has been one thing bugging me for some time however. I'm not sure if its simply down to our skewed version of american news we receive in the UK, but there seems to be a lot of negativity (moreso than over here and us Brits are renown for complaining) about taxation in general in the US. Why is that? I understand the nature of enterprise and building your own fortune but what about helping your fellow man? What is so bad about paying that little bit extra to ensure schools are funded, and that everyone has access to the most basic free healthcare?

Perhaps thats a conversation for another thread, in which case, take it as rhetorical

Originally posted by MrUncreated
I don't want their money. I just want the corruption gone. The world is owned and run by criminals. It's as simple as that. The world needs a "Reset" button. If that means "redistribution of wealth", whatever that really means, so be it. Most of the money isn't backed by anything, anyway, so it's worthless.

I worked hard for what I have, so I would have much to lose with a "reset", but I can see if you have little then what is wrong with a "reset". I would have loved the same idea when I was in my 20s and had 5 bucks in my pocket, but is it really fair?

reply to post by Xtrozero

Though you would move in a heartbeat, have you applied relentlessly, weekly, across America for a job? Have you used, weekly, all the online job sites to find a job, have you thought about Canada with their socialized healthcare system and what kind of employment opportunities they might have in your expertise?

Yes, I have.
I would leave the US quicker than you can blink. I have used ALL the job sites, I have posted a resume for the entire world to see....all I get are offers for "we will use your bank account to launder money....fill in your routing and account info here..."

I have applied overseas to several places. I have networked....I have offered my energy to any job that doesn't require me to be a body-building 20-something guy....

So....you have a job for me?
Didn't think so.

EDIT TO ADD: I am willing to work for minimum wage. I just finished a stint for a 2-month, min wage job. I'm not "above" anything.

reply to post by MattC


I cannot speak for others. but I suspect that the defiance to taxes is in large part due to the fact that income tax is not PAID, it is STOLEN.

this fact alone creates a social mindset that its okay for the government to do certain things that it is NOT okay for individuals to do. also, a very power disconnect between taxes "paid" and the things taxes pay for.

but you're right, that's another thread.

Because they stole it. We found out. Now they have to give it back.

Its as simple as that.

Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by Xtrozero
You think the trouble we are in is caused from all the billionaires so you want to limit their influence while not looking at our Government as the problem.

The influence of "the billionaires" is what prevents "the government" from being fixed

The Government is not inept by mistake.

It is deliberately crippled and manipulated.

The Government is inept from many, many different things and painting a wide brushstrokes across the rich is not the answer. To be honest I'm not sure when you say cap the rich is that past earned income or future earned or both? In the end the rich will still be rich and the influence of a few would just need a few more for the same results.

SO the answer is to change the government, change how we do things, like the federal reserve. If we cap America's billionaires they would just become Frenchmen or another nationality, plus the rest of the billionaires in the world would have a field day with little competition from the west.

It's like owning a gun. We can ban all guns, but people will still kill. We saw this in Ireland with the Shillelagh. You want to limit everyone because a few do bad things, where what we really need to do is to focus on the few that do bad things and leave the rest alone.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

I agree there needs to be fundamental changes,

SUCH AS????

Dude, you don't even have the guts to respond to people's legit arguments.
Who are you???

Changes in our bloated Government, changes in the federal reserve, changes in how our Government wastes etc..


guts lol

reply to post by Xtrozero


Sorry, don't get the "lol". Seriously, who are you? Apparently someone who is well off and has no regard for the general state of the "masses" here in the US. Right?

EDIT TO ADD: Jamie Dimon, is that you??
You're Jamie, right???

Please will you fix my credit score that you ruined when my deadbeat ex let the house we owned go into foreclosure and defaulted on the $54,000+ credit card that paid for his truck, all the tools and the bills he didn't pay before we got together?

Because...the judge said it was his responsibility to pay those debts, and he didn't, and now my credit is SCREWED because (you) Chase bank came after ME, and RUINED my credit! And I told you (them) that I would pay my measley $7k credit (that was in my own name) when they (you) fixed my credit score! And they (you) said "we don't care about the divorce and the judgement and court order, your credit is screwed" and I said "ok fine, I'm charging you the $7+ that I really owe you because you screwed up my credit score".

How fair is that? My lawyer assured me that I have legal claim to say that my stupid dead-beat ex was responsible for those debts....because the judge ordered it... and I sent all ALL of the paperwork to Chase, but they said "ha, we don't care!" .....
I could go on, but whatever.
So, Jamie,
whatever. I won't pay you one frigging dime of what my EX-HUSBAND owes. Screw my credit score. I don't care!! I will make it, with or without your "approval," .

reply to post by wildtimes


Networking is probably the most influential method, if you know someone that is literary one foot in the door...these are suggestion only. I don't know you, nor do I know why you cannot find a job across America, as I said maybe it is time to retool your skills, but to get back on topic, I don't think extreme taxes on the rich or capping them will get you a job, or more importantly create new jobs.

To get jobs back in America we need to make it worth it. To have the highest corporation tax in the world is not the way to bring jobs home. I would find it more logical to have a nationwide movement to not buy products from these companies that do things that are negative to society, but hey here in Portland all the occupiers are hard at it on their IPhones and computers, I would love to see the look on their faces if it was suggested that all of them should break their IPhones in protest... hehe

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

Sorry, don't get the "lol". Seriously, who are you? Apparently someone who is well off and has no regard for the general state of the "masses" here in the US. Right?

You said I have no guts to answer, and I found that funny. What is well off? I'm not rich, but I do pay a lot of taxes and I'm most likely in the low side of the top 10%. I do see myself as someone to lose in a reset where that 20 year old has nothing to lose.

I believe people have the right to live as they choose and as their life choices take them, good or bad.

I believe in limited help unless you are mentally/physically incapable.

I believe anyone can do well in America, and I know what we see as our poor is rich to a large chunk of the world. It's all about perspective.

I believe that if you give me an ounce of effort I'll give you a pound of help, but is so hard to get an ounce out of many.

I believe in a small foot print Federal Government and a larger State Government, and why we are called " United States".

I'm more a constitutionalist that fades to the right.

That is kind of who I am... I also have spent a few years of my life in the Middle East fighting wars I never really believed in, so maybe I'm one of the stupid ones hehe