Why do people believe in redistrubution of wealth and more taxes for the rich?

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

I don't have an addiction to money, neither do I use money to oppress people. The people who suffer from this disease should infact see a therapist. And nice try calling me a stalinist. I was merely exaggerating a point to show how evil the current system is.

you called yourself a Stalinist ... i just followed Your lead ... do you need a reference to your posting?
if you are willing to compare this current capitalist system to Stalin's treachery, you certainly could benefit from the assistance of a therapist. good luck in your journey.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

soooo, if you really believe all that mumbo jumbo you just typed, why isn't there any OWS movement in Gurnsey ??? hmmmmmm?
Hamptons ?? Virginia Beach ?? San Louis Obispo ?? Ojai ??
you know, all those places the 1% spend their "sheltered" monies.
thought you wanted a piece of their pie?

IF the OWS protesters wanted "solidarity" amongst the 99%, why do they attack their brethren as they pass by?
IF the OWS wanted any kind of "change", why are they calling for support of the legislation presented to Congress back in April ?? [HR 1489 & 2451]
but, i thought they wanted "change" from the status quo ... and yet they choose to support the status quo?
what's up with that?

reply to post by gwydionblack


I think that one of the things that upset people is the fact that the system is designed to make the rich richer and the poor poorer. Capitalism is a blatently classest system which is going through it's death throws. Let's be honest, throughout history reveloutions have been started and governments overthrown for less.
How about the fact that banks and their irresponsibility were a large contributor to the worlds current financial state and yet it's the working mans taxes that have paid for the bailout of big business.
In my experience no matter where you are in the world, big business and those with money pay less tax per dollar than the working man.
You could take the religeous kinda view. If all incomes in the the western world were limited to fifty million dollars a year and any amount over that was donated to charity... There would be no hunger or poverty in the world. That's a bizzare concept, that so few people control so much money... While others starve to death. What makes that O.K? I thought we all had a right to life? I thought we were all entitled to have most basic human needs met. Don't get my wrong, weather the rich should 'support the poor' is another conversation entirely. It's not that the African nation of 'Congo' has no wealth, it's the fact that the natural resourses of the country are being raped by big business while the locals live and die in poverty. What makes that O.K?
I hope I'm making sence here...

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


So you were born in the US, so what? My family name resides on the Declaration of Independence, my ancestors came here in the dark of night in the 1600's having sided with Cromwell in the English Civil War.... I am related by blood to several of the founding father's of the nation... my family has sided with personal liberty and individual rights, as well as well as shed blood in every conflict this Nation has endured from the beginning, and even prior to that in Europe....does that entitle me to trash the very foundation of the country?

I don't believe it does.

I believe I am no more an American that the LEGAL immigrant that is still stumbling and struggling to learn the language and understand the culture and our holidays and history....

What makes you so entitled to decide where and when I or millions of other Americans are wrong, and to decide what is right??? If in fact you actually support democracy then you are out numbered, those of your views are the minority in this country. If as in a true Democracy the majority rules...then EEEEEEEE you LOSE.

You feel the Constitution is no more important than toilet paper??? I would ponder if you love this country at all, or if you true agenda is it's very destruction.

This once great nation as you put it was founded on the very beliefs you keep speaking to vehemently about..perhaps this it the REAL conspiracy....you scream democracy in hopes to destroy the Republic

You may in fact get your wish, it will however be over many many MANY dead bodies...somehow I don't think that will bother you though....

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

I don't have an addiction to money, neither do I use money to oppress people. The people who suffer from this disease should infact see a therapist. And nice try calling me a stalinist. I was merely exaggerating a point to show how evil the current system is.

you called yourself a Stalinist ... i just followed Your lead ... do you need a reference to your posting?
if you are willing to compare this current capitalist system to Stalin's treachery, you certainly could benefit from the assistance of a therapist. good luck in your journey.

I don't need a reference to anything. I know what I wrote and I stick to it. It was an exaggeration to make a point. Obviously you know VERY LITTLE about history and you make up things along the way to justify your viewpoints.

Fine I could not care less, just don't go around crying to the moderators everytime you feel slightely offended.

Originally posted by Cinaed

You feel the Constitution is no more important than toilet paper??? I would ponder if you love this country at all, or if you true agenda is it's very destruction.

It has been reduced to toilet paper. It did not start off that way. OBVIOUSLY

You may in fact get your wish, it will however be over many many MANY dead bodies...somehow I don't think that will bother you though....

Wow, so everytime you disagree with someone you start making veiled threats, as though the rich outnumber the poor SOMEHOW! I say be very careful what you wish for because sometimes nightmares can come true.

If I were a conservative I would seek compromise rather than a civil war.

Originally posted by Cinaed
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

Again, I agree with much of this post you contributed but where you lose me is when you start to put your perceived *correct limits* on the power of the individual....

I believe in power to the people, not just *some people* and I certainly do not believe some are more equal than others.

The illuminati is a very old organization and while you believe you have it all figured out I would present you do not understand all you know. You may be opposed to them yet, if you should get your desired outcomes it would only herald in the NWO and the complete control by such PTB as you claim to be against.

Right...........power of the people............unlimited rights............

Does that mean I walk outside naked and when the cop asks me to spread my legs and hands up...do I tell the cop "my rights have been violated sir".

Does it mean I can stick up a convience store because I have "unlimited rights"?

Does it means the bankers can embezzle billions/trillions of dollars because they have "unlimited rights"?

Does it mean the government should cater to the most corrupt companies with unlimited funds since ANYONE can voice their "first amendment rights" via money? That is what the supreme court decided!

YOUR RIGHTS STOP WHEN THEY START INTERFERING WITH SOMEONE ELSES' RIGHTS! Let that sink properly.

Originally posted by apacheman

Society is a complex web of interdependencies that cannot be untwined to the point that one can say they are solely responsible for whatever they accomplish or fail to accomplish in life. Get over it.


You took advantage of the society in which you found yourself and were lucky enough to be in the right places at the right times for things to work out for you. If you were two blocks over and an hour earlier, who knows?

Well luck has little to do with it, but I do agree with most of your statement above, BUT one needs to plan well and execute that plan. Getting an education and skills in a area that needs you is foresight, not luck. For some people, things come easy, for others it comes hard, that is what we call life. I truly can't say things have come easy for me since I know other paths would have been much easier, but I'm not bitching about it.

Many people have worked harder than you, sacrificed more, made better decisions and are smarter than you, yet are homeless and destitute because of things and decisions outside of their control.

Not many, your statement is not very typical... and as we have seen those who fall hard, but continue to work hard get back up. It's the getting back up that counts, so what do you say about these protestors that are in their early 20s? Have they fallen hard?

Do you really put it all to luck?

A little humility and understanding goes a long way towards building a better society.

I have it, and I understand what people go though, been there done that... BUT it is sure easy to say that others need to sacrafice when you are not the one sacraficing.... (I say "you" in general as not mean you directly)

Life is not equal nor can it ever be. There are a million factor (and yes maybe your luck too) that determines it all. If people want to be truly equal go form a commune some place and enjoy. Not sure if they be happy, but they would all be equal. I say this with a belief that everyone of you can do greater things then I have or do nothing in life.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

I do agree 250,000 should not be the bottom limit for the highest tax scale bracket. It should be $1 million. The problem is not the progressive taxation system and the "unlimited" loopholes, but what exactly constitutes *rich*, *middle*, *poor* class.

I think what bothers me is that people. like you, want decide what is enough, or what is too much. I have no problem with redoing our tax code to make it very transparent to what everyone pays or doesn't pay in taxes. I do have a problem with people who want to establish some "limit", based on what, I don't know.

Originally posted by Cinaed

Freedom isn't something that can be EARNED...it is a God given right to all human beings! The various levels of freedom existing in the world is directly linked to the willingness of people to FIGHT for their rights!

The question is, just what is freedom?

Not too long ago people worked 16 hours a day to survive, whether it was in the fields or factory. What is this thing you call freedom?

reply to post by Xtrozero


We have a document called the Constitution, and another one called the Bill of Rights. Ever read them? That's what I call freedom. Timeless pieces of paper that give The People the power to change and amend them as needed, and even repeal changes if Or when The People realize something done was a mistake.

I work about 53 hrs a week, not because I need to..... Because I CHOOSE to, kinda like some of the rich everyone is so hellbent on stealing from, even if they work longs hrs to do so..... Even if they've brkoen no laws....

I don't call tat freedom, rather than assume responsibility to change the law PERSECUTE honest fellow citizens!!!!!!

Freedom would be punishing the guilty..... Discrimination is attacking an unpopular minority insteadM.

Originally posted by Cinaed
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

We have a document called the Constitution, and another one called the Bill of Rights. Ever read them? That's what I call freedom. Timeless pieces of paper that give The People the power to change and amend them as needed, and even repeal changes if Or when The People realize something done was a mistake.

I work about 53 hrs a week, not because I need to..... Because I CHOOSE to, kinda like some of the rich everyone is so hellbent on stealing from, even if they work longs hrs to do so..... Even if they've brkoen no laws....

I don't call tat freedom, rather than assume responsibility to change the law PERSECUTE honest fellow citizens!!!!!![quote/]

Freedom would be punishing the guilty..... Discrimination is attacking an unpopular minority insteadM.

bollocks... Freedom isn't a peice of paper. Freedom is my god given right. My right to choose. Freedom is being able to knock on your front door put a gun to your head and blow your effing brains out... Should that be what I wish to do. Freedom is having choices. Go and spend some time earning minimun wage like half of the freakin population for sixty hours a week and then come back and tell me that the system is fair.

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

I do agree 250,000 should not be the bottom limit for the highest tax scale bracket. It should be $1 million. The problem is not the progressive taxation system and the "unlimited" loopholes, but what exactly constitutes *rich*, *middle*, *poor* class.

I think what bothers me is that people. like you, want decide what is enough, or what is too much. I have no problem with redoing our tax code to make it very transparent to what everyone pays or doesn't pay in taxes. I do have a problem with people who want to establish some "limit", based on what, I don't know.

Because all taxation systems have limits. The answer is self-explanatory!

Originally posted by Cinaed
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

We have a document called the Constitution, and another one called the Bill of Rights. Ever read them? That's what I call freedom. Timeless pieces of paper that give The People the power to change and amend them as needed, and even repeal changes if Or when The People realize something done was a mistake.

I work about 53 hrs a week, not because I need to..... Because I CHOOSE to, kinda like some of the rich everyone is so hellbent on stealing from, even if they work longs hrs to do so..... Even if they've brkoen no laws....

I don't call tat freedom, rather than assume responsibility to change the law PERSECUTE honest fellow citizens!!!!!!

Freedom would be punishing the guilty..... Discrimination is attacking an unpopular minority insteadM.

The bill of rights IS PART of the United States Constitution. It is NOT a seperate document! For someone who screams hysterically about "my rights, my rights, my rights" I thought you should already know that.

And where exactly in the constitution does it is say taxation is illegal? In fact this proves you wrong:

Sixteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

The Sixteenth Amendment (Amendment XVI) to the United States Constitution allows the Congress to levy an income tax without apportioning it among the states or basing it on Census results. This amendment exempted income taxes from the constitutional requirements regarding direct taxes, after income taxes on rents, dividends, and interest were ruled to be direct taxes in Pollock v. Farmers' Loan & Trust Co. (1895). It was ratified on February 3, 1913.

You should be glad you work because you want to and not have to work just to exist. Most people are in the second category, including myself! I am not out to steal your money because I am not the IRS. All we ask is that people who make more, pay more. It is a fair system and not necessarily socialistic, as even capitalism has certain rules everyone agrees to play with.

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by Cinaed

Freedom isn't something that can be EARNED...it is a God given right to all human beings! The various levels of freedom existing in the world is directly linked to the willingness of people to FIGHT for their rights!

The question is, just what is freedom?

Not too long ago people worked 16 hours a day to survive, whether it was in the fields or factory. What is this thing you call freedom?

There is no such thing as freedom. It is an oxymoronic misnomer as everything in the universe is reletavistic!

Chances are when someone has too much freedom, they are taking it from someone else's freedom.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by Cinaed

Freedom isn't something that can be EARNED...it is a God given right to all human beings! The various levels of freedom existing in the world is directly linked to the willingness of people to FIGHT for their rights!

The question is, just what is freedom?

Not too long ago people worked 16 hours a day to survive, whether it was in the fields or factory. What is this thing you call freedom?

There is no such thing as freedom. It is an oxymoronic misnomer as everything in the universe is reletavistic!

Chances are when someone has too much freedom, they are taking it from someone else's freedom.

HA HA... Good work. Thank you for reminding me of that.

Originally posted by Cinaed

I work about 53 hrs a week, not because I need to..... Because I CHOOSE to, kinda like some of the rich everyone is so hellbent on stealing from, even if they work longs hrs to do so..... Even if they've brkoen no laws....

Sounds like you have the ability of choice, so I would say you got freedom.

Originally posted by hudsonhawk69
Go and spend some time earning minimun wage like half of the freakin population for sixty hours a week and then come back and tell me that the system is fair.

Fair,,,hmmm


So 1.8 million earn minimum wage. Only 4% of them have a collage education, only 4% are over 25 years old. 25% are teens,,,


Sounds fair to me....


When I was 18 making minimum wage I went to my dad and told him that I was busting my butt to make little. He asked me how much did I think my low skill job was worth and after thinking about it, I said "about minimum wage". I realized I needed to get better skills....

Most min jobs are in the service industry, have been like that forever. One needs to really look at their job and truely think about how much should that job pay. One also needs to think about why one job pays minimum and another pays 100k per year...

You my friend are upset about something that has not changed, but many now want more than what a job truely should pay.

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by hudsonhawk69
Go and spend some time earning minimun wage like half of the freakin population for sixty hours a week and then come back and tell me that the system is fair.

Fair,,,hmmm


So 1.8 million earn minimum wage. Only 4% of them have a collage education, only 4% are over 25 years old. 25% are teens,,,


Sounds fair to me....


When I was 18 making minimum wage I went to my dad and told him that I was busting my butt to make little. He asked me how much did I think my low skill job was worth and after thinking about it, I said "about minimum wage". I realized I need to get better skills....

Most min jobs are in the service industry, have been like that forever. One needs to really look at their job and truely think about how much should that job pay. One also needs to think about why one job pays minimum and another pays 100k per year...

You my friend are upset about something that has not changed and many want more than what a job truely should pay.

Yes, what you say is true. What would really like is to reskill just like you suggest... unfortunatey without making more money that is impossible. My bad I made poor life choices.
I just feel that some people would view the OWS movent differently if they had experienced some of what those who support the cause have been through.
While you are correct this is not a central issue brought forward by the OWS movement, just my misguided rant.

Originally posted by hudsonhawk69
Yes, what you say is true. What would really like is to reskill just like you suggest... unfortunatey without making more money that is impossible. My bad I made poor life choices.
I just feel that some people would view the OWS movent differently if they had experienced some of what those who support the cause have been through.
While you are correct this is not a central issue brought forward by the OWS movement, just my misguided rant.

How old are you? Your life almost over, no more room for improvement? What skills would you like to get? There are ways, but most have the thing called starting at the bottom, and that means you plan things out and focus your life on those plans even though you make little while you gain skills.

I would love to see more programs that invest in the person who is willing to work towards a better way of life, but it seems both programs and people willing are lacking. Though maybe you and a few others want to work hard to do better if given the chance I see most want money for nothing....

The deal is to always work towards improvement. Get a mimimum paying job, but never stop looking for another job that will teach new skills and allow you to earn more income. Sooner or later you will get a good paying job.