Why do people believe in redistrubution of wealth and more taxes for the rich?

reply to post by Xtrozero


What did you do to earn your freedom?

I served in a couple of different war zones buying it for you.

If you didn't serve, then I guess you shouldn't feel entitled to it.

There's lots of things you feel entitled to that you haven't earned by any means other than being lucky enough to be born here.

Did you earn the opportunities you have been given? Most likely no.

Did you earn the education you received? No. It was given to you for free.

Society is a complex web of interdependencies that cannot be untwined to the point that one can say they are solely responsible for whatever they accomplish or fail to accomplish in life. Get over it.

If you have enough to eat, if you live in a pleasant home, if you are free from illness, if you have time to spend doing enjoyable things with your loved ones, why does it bug you so much that others might have those things, too? If you say they should work harder, then give them the opportunity: step down and give them a turn. Don't hog the job/business ride.

The rich and nearly rich are always going on about how greedy and jealous everyone is of their money and stuff. I think they are looking in a mirror and seeing themselves: for it is they who are jealous of their money and react like the guy jealous of his wife or girlfriend, wanting to beat the crap out of anyone who even looks at it.

reply to post by wildtimes


I think most people understand and agree with the corporation beefs you have, the problem is the laws yu are supporting don't just affect the corporations.... They also affect private individuals that do LOTS with their investments to help all those their businesses serve.

My personal experiences are typical not rare. Why aren't any of you acreaming about all the fraud at the lowend by such freeloaders that also affects anyone in the middle??? By failing to do so you reduce your stance to an attack against the rich, rather than the crook; be they rich..... Or.....poor!

reply to post by apacheman


You can label my comments however you like, it doesn't detract from the fact I collected the revenue coming in and paid the monies going out so I KNOW what went back and forth. At the end of the day his situation wasn't all that much better than mine...... There were just more zeros and headaches involved. If you removethe one item that gives people a reason to deal with the headaches they won't invest their money here. That equals less jobs, not more

Originally posted by gwydionblack
I hear many people on ATS, around the globe, and in the Occupy Wall Street movements advocate more taxes for the rich and some even go so far as to say a "redistribution of wealth". I struggle to find where the belief in this comes from. Does it only come from people who don't have wealth or is it more wide spread?

I imagine it has something to do with this:

reply to post by Cinaed


It's not a matter of labeling, it is about using the words correctly by their agreed upon definitions.

To call the gross income the net income, or to otherwise mislabel/misuse terms speaks either to ignorance or duplicity. If ignorance is involved, just admit it, correct it and move on.

That you didn't address the core of it speaks to the idea that it wasn't ignorance, but a desire to mislead that is at work here.

Either way, it confuses the issue unnecessarily and short-circuits honest debate.

Originally posted by apacheman


What did you do to earn your freedom?

I served in a couple of different war zones buying it for you.

If you didn't serve, then I guess you shouldn't feel entitled to it.

Well I started off with 28 years of military service being a part of every war and contingency since 1980. I retired in 2008 and took my skills into the private sector and continued my support and physical presence in Afghanistan once again these last 3 or so years, but I mainly teach now.

There's lots of things you feel entitled to that you haven't earned by any means other than being lucky enough to be born here.

Well my point in my last post is I don't feel entitled to anything that I didn't invest time and energy into.

Did you earn the education you received? No. It was given to you for free.

My education was paid mainly by the military, but once again my efforts was to squeeze one or two classes in, when able, around a very chaotic schedule, AND I provided service for that education opportunity. (notice how I didn't say education entitlement) It's all about creating opportunities...

If you have enough to eat, if you live in a pleasant home, if you are free from illness, if you have time to spend doing enjoyable things with your loved ones, why does it bug you so much that others might have those things, too? If you say they should work harder, then give them the opportunity: step down and give them a turn. Don't hog the job/business ride.

It doesn't bother me in the least and I feel for them and I'm very aware, but once again don't decide it is time for a reset just because I have something and you (or others) don't. As I said before when I was in my late teens I was lucky to have 5 bucks in my pocket, I worked long minimum wage jobs and guess what it sucked, so I did something about it that took me 30 years plus to achieve.

Please don't look at my achievements as something that can be push aside, or disregarded, or reset.....

AND please don't say I need to do more for my country, or I'm not doing enough, or the old "what have you done for me lately" attitude.

The rich and nearly rich are always going on about how greedy and jealous everyone is of their money and stuff. I think they are looking in a mirror and seeing themselves: for it is they who are jealous of their money and react like the guy jealous of his wife or girlfriend, wanting to beat the crap out of anyone who even looks at it.

Hmmm greed, ya that's it.

My greed is to provide a college education for all my kids. My greed it to provide the best life for my wife and family, my greed is to save so that when I'm 70 I can still live, my greed is to ensure that when I go I do not leave a wake of misery in my path.

I know many live and only see month to month. I was like that too at one time, but I look far ahead now and THAT my friend takes money, and not just a little to meet my goals. I will do my part as a citizen, I will pay more taxes than the vast majority of others, and I will ensure my offspring are never a determent to society.

I'm sorry to say, but my family comes first and when someone or a group wants to change that I kind of take it personal, sorry.

reply to post by Xtrozero

I see you missed this part:

Society is a complex web of interdependencies that cannot be untwined to the point that one can say they are solely responsible for whatever they accomplish or fail to accomplish in life. Get over it.

Look, your individual accomplishments are well and good. Your efforts are to be lauded. But I think you missed the main point, the one I repeat above.

Whatever you accomplished, you didn't do it all on your own. You took advantage of the society in which you found yourself and were lucky enough to be in the right places at the right times for things to work out for you. If you were two blocks over and an hour earlier, who knows?

No one does it all on their own, and therefore can never take sole credit for their place in life.

Many people have worked harder than you, sacrificed more, made better decisions and are smarter than you, yet are homeless and destitute because of things and decisions outside of their control.

A little humility and understanding goes a long way towards building a better society.

Originally posted by Cinaed
reply to post by apacheman

 

You can label my comments however you like, it doesn't detract from the fact I collected the revenue coming in and paid the monies going out so I KNOW what went back and forth. At the end of the day his situation wasn't all that much better than mine...... There were just more zeros and headaches involved. If you removethe one item that gives people a reason to deal with the headaches they won't invest their money here. That equals less jobs, not more

Because capitalism is global and it is a top-down system. Reagen called it trickle-down economics for good reason; it is EXACTLY THAT! What they failed to mention however is just how severe that trickled-down crap can be. Lets just say for every dollar in circulation 99 cents stays at the top 1% and 1 cent goes down to the other 99%.

And most people do not consider $400,000 salary as insanely rich. The real parasites work in london, nyc, tokyo, zurich, lichenstien, luxembourge hoarding unreported money and then hedging it in derivatives. They don't have to report anything unless ordered by a recognised court. Wall Street SHOULD BE the main focus of all protests and then the federal government for allowing such unscrupoulos behavior.

Some people live just by "investing" millions in the stock market with insider information. They never lift a damm finger!

Originally posted by Cinaed

In short, they disgusted me with what a NICE FREE RIDE they feel entitled to. It was so bad that the nice families that were struggling, trying to do right fall through the cracks...it's pathetic and I decided I wanted no part of helping such people

MANY of the poor everyone is harping about are every bit as crooked and dirty dealing as the *fat cats* you all seem to hate so much.

Sorry but I would rather have stalin communism then some greedy george soros, bernie madoff, rockefeller, rothschild SCUM OF THE EARTH who hoardes billions or even trillions of currency in manipulated markets with tons of insider information.

WTF do you think these INSANELY RICH PARASITES discuss at the annual bilderberger, CFR and Bohemian Grove meetings? Please don't get me started because I will get banned from this site and I don't feel like joining GodLikeProductions.

Get real brother!! Seriously! By defending your $400,000 boss you are ALSO defending some of the most EVIL PEOPLE you could NEVER imagine exist. They must be satanists, technically called luciferians by the illuminati.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


You are more than welcome to leave our country for greener pastures.

That's the beauty of our country. You are not forced to stay here and participate in what you feel is a greedy, evil empire.

Originally posted by haarvik
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

You are more than welcome to leave our country for greener pastures.

That's the beauty of our country. You are not forced to stay here and participate in what you feel is a greedy, evil empire.

America and the constitution does not belong to conservatives alone. It belongs to every american citizen!

You need to think less of your self, for your own benefit, in the long run.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


No, I don't. My first and foremost responsibility is to my family. beyond that it is my discretion as to whom I do/do not wish to assist. If I decide to hoard my money so I can retire in comfort, that is my business and none of yours. I dare anyone to try and "spread" my wealth. The only thing that will be spreading is their innards!

reply to post by haarvik


Your post is nonsense. You are not threatning me, you are threating the IRS and all the elite families who relly on your mandatory "donations" to become wealthier at everyones' expense. Instead of giving progressives a hard time you should do research to see what the hell is going on in the real world.

Hint capitalism is a worldwide scam. I don't know how many times this needs repeating!

I'm not sure why I thought this, but I distinctly remember thinking aloud, when hearing of GM and Chrysler getting their $20,000,000,000+ in bailout money, "Man, those guys should change their sales slogans to 'GM and Chrysler. We'll get your money one way or the other.'"

Now rioters are storming Wall Street and it's minor siblings all over the country, demanding the rich 1% redistribute their wealth (Be honest, how and why is still fuzzy.)

Should the rioters new battle cry be, "We'll get our $30 per hour out of you, one way or the other."?

reply to post by Cinaed

Why aren't any of you acreaming about all the fraud at the lowend by such freeloaders that also affects anyone in the middle??? By failing to do so you reduce your stance to an attack against the rich, rather than the crook; be they rich..... Or.....poor!

Um, if you care to take a deep breath and then re-read the post you are responding to, I DID make note that the freeloaders are a problem!

Why is it that you are refusing to acknowledge that there are MILLIONS of people who were once employed, middle-class homeowners and tax-payers who are now UNEMPLOYED and therefore UNABLE to pay taxes?
Those are the people for whom I am advocating! Not the lowlife vandals and chronic generational freeloaders!

reply to post by Crakeur

. I was merely pointing out that a flat tax helps the rich

That's what is baffling to me....what is your definition of 'rich'...for example, i'm lower middle class ( i think) 50 to 70k per year, and my nephew thinks im rich. And Obama keeps redefining his perception of the work also.

Dont get me wrong, I have not studied economics and taxation to ANY degree....but I certainly do NOT support my govt using taxes as a penalty for myself or my neighbor. If my neighbor is doing better than I, I would be more inclined to ask his secrets to success than ask my political rep to tax him down to my level.

As for corporate charters, I think it was in an early American hist. class that I learned of when businesses were at least regulated to some degree to be ethical.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by haarvik
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

You are more than welcome to leave our country for greener pastures.

That's the beauty of our country. You are not forced to stay here and participate in what you feel is a greedy, evil empire.

America and the constitution does not belong to conservatives alone. It belongs to every american citizen!

You need to think less of your self, for your own benefit, in the long run.

the Constitution belongs to the Americans who honor it, no party affiliation necessary ... i'm sad that isn't you.

think less of ourselves ??? you must be joking but if not, it seems you need a therapist.
good luck with your Stalinist views ... if you want to be one of the 30+million his system and ideology murdered, step right up
historical link
just in case you think i'm pulling numbers out of thin air

reply to post by wildtimes

how in the world did you come to this conclusion?

Those are the people for whom I am advocating! Not the lowlife vandals and chronic generational freeloaders!

the "people" are a mixed bag of candy ... in your "theory", there is no equality or level playing field for ALL ... so, what exactly is your stand?

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

For starters I am not a male, I am female....

I am against crooks, be they rich or poor!! I will defend honest hard working people and those that give a hand up to anyone reaching (versus a hand out!)

If you find this a problem then it is indeed YOUR problem!

I believe in equal opportunity not equal outcome. The previous employer I referred to is a very honest and giving person.... I will defend him and his choices, especially against those who would attack him simply because he has things they do not...if this is your definition of guilt and evilness.... I suppose you do not defend the Constitution either.... I have chosen my side of the fence and no one waving injustice or name calling is going to sway me from being against CROOKS be they rich or poor...versus the current unpopular minority..... that is just Democracy in action

*shudders*

reply to post by apacheman


No you are correct. I did mis state the *net* income but not in an effort to mislead, it was due to posting here while working a 24 hr on call shift, coming back and forth to a post and having several thoughts running through my head...

Gross income is what I was discussing even though I began to address net income. My bad.

When I read your reply I was skimming and I saw the straw man comment.... I am so tired of this buzzword THAT is what I replied to rather than to just wait until I could really read the forum

Like I said, my bad but nothing nefarious...re read my post as $400,000.00 being a gross income and the point is clear.