Veterans’ unemployment outpaces civilian rate

But since leaving the Army in 2008, Joseph has found that the rigorous training he gained during 18 years of military service means little to civilian employers.

www.washingtonpost.c om

This should never, ever be an issue.

But it is.

The veterans have an unemployment rate that is 2.6% higher then civilians, and that is just sad. As the article points out, one problem is that the military does advertise that your military experience will set you up for the outside world, but many of the skills are not translateable to the private sector, unless it is IT specific, maybe.
The GI Bill especially gives volunteers this notion, I would assume.

But does the military, and companies have an obligation to prepare veterans for the civilian world?
Does the military need to educate the private sector more on what abilities that these veterans and soldiers have obtained and how it is beneficial to them? And that the soldiers have not been brainwashed into automotons?

I may even open the ATS can of discontent and release the notion that maybe there needs to be a form of affirmative action. Or instead of tax break incentives, give the money to the companies that hire veterans for training. A cross pollination program if you will.
Another option could be that military contractors should be encouraged to hire outcoming veterans.

Is 2.6% really significant?

Why do veterans deserve jobs over any other demographic?

Have you compared the veteran unemployment rate with other specific demographics? Like African Americans, Latinos, young people, old people?

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, unemployment among African Americans is at 16%, while for whites it's 8%. For Hispanics it's 11.8%.

These people didn't choose to be born any specific color, but veterans chose to sign up for military service.
If we're going to shed tears about unfair employment statistics let's attack the real problems instead of offering more reason to automatically and obligatorily support veterans.

From personal experience, I know a few Iraq/Afghanistan vets who would rather sit back and collect benefits than actually work. I think a large gap in employment history is a big reason people do not get hired.

www.bls.gov...

reply to post by nixie_nox


Wow! I know this guy!

The Armed forces do have a program; however I would say it is only successful on an individual level. Here is the Army program.

www.hrc.army.mil...

US Army Soldiers who have been identified for retirement or expiration of service usually get a two week course through ACAP. They learn to brush up their resumes and how to network, etc, etc. I’ve know people who took part in a expanded version and they are now employed, But I believe that two weeks is not enough to transition 4 to 30 years of experience into a civilian occupation.

When I retired, I was given a one week notice. By regulations, a Soldier has to request retirement between 12 and 9 months out. Technically, my orders to retire should have been nine months from the time I received them.

It took two and a half years to get that retirement due to the incompetence of the administrative personnel. That and three congressional investigations. Methinks they were sick of me and once they realized that I wasn’t going away, they just blew the regs off and kicked me to the curb.

Stupid me, I was done fighting the system and took it. I should have fought for ACAP as well. Oh well, it is what it is and there are on-line courses.

But I have been interviewed many times and the following have been told or asked of me numerous times over the past six months.

- You’re too old. (I’m 49)
- You don’t have PTSD do you? (I don’t)
- We’ve hired Vets before and they always try to take charge.
- You’re over or under qualified (Out of curiosity, what qualifications does it take to cut grass or drive a ¾ ton snowplow?)

I could go on.

I can really relate to the line in “Rambo” were he tells his former Commander that in the Military he was in Charge of people’s lives and was responsible for millions in dollars worth of equipment and now he can’t even find a job.

I can’t complain too much though, I’m better off than most and I do receive my retirement pension. I just hate being on a fixed income. Even a minimum wage job would take the edge off.

Black, white, blue with pink spots, you fight for and serve your country and put your life on the line then your country owes you a living!

Fact is, as we speak there are thousands of battle hardened, highly trained, out of work and very pissed off and dissillusioned vets out there that the government may want to remember its covenant too or be destroyed by them... Those serving now, seeing what is in their futures will back them too!

reply to post by TinkerHaus


A lot of those unemployed Vets are African Americans and Hispanics. (I prefer to think of them just as Americans).

They have done their term of service and have proven themselves to be trainable in various fields of employment. Just like most of us. But they at least have a track record to back it up.

what idiots

Originally posted by EvanB
Black, white, blue with pink spots, you fight for and serve your country and put your life on the line then your country owes you a living!

Fact is, as we speak there are thousands of battle hardened, highly trained, out of work and very pissed off and dissillusioned vets out there that the government may want to remember its covenant too or be destroyed by them... Those serving now, seeing what is in their futures will back them too!

I would argue that your country doesn't owe you ANYTHING that it doesn't owe every other citizen.

Whether you are in the military or the private sector, you are paying into the system. In fact, in the USA if you are deployed in a combat zone or overseas I believe your salary is tax exempt. The IRS offers a variety of special tax laws for active military and veterans, including a first time home buyer's credit, increased economic stimulus payments, the Military Family Tax Relief, etc. So one could say that non-military workers have contributed just as much or more as any veteran.

What more do you want? A parade and a free ride? I have to apply, apply, and apply some more if I want to find a job - and I have an education and a great work history. Why should anyone get preferential treatment?

Employers should hire based on their needs and applicant qualifications. Nothing else.

reply to post by TinkerHaus


I have to agree with you. Vets do recieve many benifits that are not available to the average citizen. But they did earn them through service.

But it is a rather uneasy transistion from military to civilian sector. A lot of it has to do with the Vets mindset in my opinion.

That said, a employer hiring a Vet rarely does wrong by the company. Vets have a tendancy to be quite loyal to those who hire them...at a liveable wage.

Originally posted by TinkerHaus

Originally posted by EvanB
Black, white, blue with pink spots, you fight for and serve your country and put your life on the line then your country owes you a living!

Fact is, as we speak there are thousands of battle hardened, highly trained, out of work and very pissed off and dissillusioned vets out there that the government may want to remember its covenant too or be destroyed by them... Those serving now, seeing what is in their futures will back them too!

I would argue that your country doesn't owe you ANYTHING that it doesn't owe every other citizen.

Whether you are in the military or the private sector, you are paying into the system. In fact, in the USA if you are deployed in a combat zone or overseas I believe your salary is tax exempt. The IRS offers a variety of special tax laws for active military and veterans, including a first time home buyer's credit, increased economic stimulus payments, the Military Family Tax Relief, etc.

What more do you want? A parade and a free ride? I have to apply, apply, and apply some more if I want to find a job - and I have an education and a great work history. Why should anyone get preferential treatment?

Employers should hire based on their needs and applicant qualifications. Nothing else.

I do not know how it works in the US but in the UK armed forces we still pay tax even on combat ops. Even if we are posted to somewhere like Germany for example we still even had to pay council tax to local UK councils!

The military covenant between state and servicemen/women that ensures post service prosperity for those who put their lives on the line for those same governments, employers et al has been ignored for way too long!


You fight for the security and safety of your country, damn right your country owes you a living! Vets are not asking for something for nothing but to work their butts off!

reply to post by EvanB


US Soldiers are tax exempt in what are considered combat zones. It always irritated me when the Joes would return from a tour just to find out that they're broke due to a financially retarded spouse.

I think what we're seeing is a result of many things. I agree with nixie that IN GENERAL, our veterans should find it fairly easy to get jobs when they're finished serving their country.

HOWEVER, there are SO many reasons that this isn't happening... Here are some that come to mind:

1. Being in the military today is not respected as it used to be. Why? Because the wars we're fighting and the attitude with which our government and military operate is no longer respectable. Back when the interests of our country were actually being protected by our military, they were much more respected and employers would strive to hire people returning from military service. I wouldn't hire someone, knowing that they volunteered to go to war in Iraq or Afghanistan. That shows lack of character to me.

2. The people who 'own' America have no interest in veterans getting jobs when they're done with them. Their REAL agenda is to have people stay IN the military. Why? War has become a profit-making venture for our country and they need bodies (cannon fodder) IN the military to further their agenda. ($$$)

3. The idea that military experience will train somebody for civilian life - the whole concept of being trained for a civilian career while in the military is part of The Big Lie. The majority of military jobs are simply not transferable to the civilian sector, seeing as how they involve blowing things up and killing people. And even those jobs that DO translate (IT, mechanics, etc) to the civilian sector, are done differently in a military environment than in the US marketplace. The actual job may be the same, but the environment is SO different, that it might as well be a different job.

4. The standards for those going into the military have been lowered considerably. ALL kinds of people are getting in. Many join because they can't get or keep a job in the first place. That's one reason we have so many horrible human rights violations by our own military members. The basic character of military people is less than desirable, IMO. They're letting the criminal element in because they need bodies. When these people come out, they still belong to a segment of society that's not employee material.

5. Our government doesn't care about the physical and mental condition of the people who do make it out of the military, so put them in very dangerous and damaging situations. They ARE broken-down and brainwashed. They return with psychoses and attitudes about the value of human life that civilians don't share. Many of the people coming out simply are used up and not fit for survival in this society.

That's just off the top of my head. And it's just my opinion.

IMO, we don't need affirmative action for the military. We need to start operating honorably in the world for this to change. And that's not going to happen. We're witnessing the downward spiral (and eventual collapse) of our whole society. This is just one indication of it. Just one signpost along the road.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I wish I could disagree with you but sadly you are correct on all counts..

Just to clarify, I'm not knocking those who have served in the military. I'm just saying I don't believe they deserve a job over any other group.

I do have a problem with the idea that I owe the troops something, because I do not feel that is the case.

If the Military wants to give additional benefits to vets, maybe they can fund it with some of that tax exempt income?

FYI, I have many friends and immediate family in the military. I have supported my brother in various ways since his return from Iraq and then Afghanistan in 2004. His only problem with employment has been keeping it. Not because he has any real problem, but just because he's kind of a slacker. He has quit more jobs in the past seven years than most people have applied for. He feels that he is owed something, or at least he did for a long time - but is finally opening his eyes to reality over the past year or so.

reply to post by TDawgRex


Those questions they asked you are blatantly illegal and should be reported to the EEOC.

No company is ever allowed to ask you medical status, marriage status, if you have children, etc. in an interview.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I think what we're seeing is a result of many things. I agree with nixie that IN GENERAL, our veterans should find it fairly easy to get jobs when they're finished serving their country.

HOWEVER, there are SO many reasons that this isn't happening... Here are some that come to mind:

1. Being in the military today is not respected as it used to be. Why? Because the wars we're fighting and the attitude with which our government and military operate is no longer respectable. Back when the interests of our country were actually being protected by our military, they were much more respected and employers would strive to hire people returning from military service. I wouldn't hire someone, knowing that they volunteered to go to war in Iraq or Afghanistan. That shows lack of character to me.

2. The people who 'own' America have no interest in veterans getting jobs when they're done with them. Their REAL agenda is to have people stay IN the military. Why? War has become a profit-making venture for our country and they need bodies (cannon fodder) IN the military to further their agenda. ($$$)

3. The idea that military experience will train somebody for civilian life - the whole concept of being trained for a civilian career while in the military is part of The Big Lie. The majority of military jobs are simply not transferable to the civilian sector, seeing as how they involve blowing things up and killing people. And even those jobs that DO translate (IT, mechanics, etc) to the civilian sector, are done differently in a military environment than in the US marketplace. The actual job may be the same, but the environment is SO different, that it might as well be a different job.

4. The standards for those going into the military have been lowered considerably. ALL kinds of people are getting in. Many join because they can't get or keep a job in the first place. That's one reason we have so many horrible human rights violations by our own military members. The basic character of military people is less than desirable, IMO. They're letting the criminal element in because they need bodies. When these people come out, they still belong to a segment of society that's not employee material.

5. Our government doesn't care about the physical and mental condition of the people who do make it out of the military, so put them in very dangerous and damaging situations. They ARE broken-down and brainwashed. They return with psychoses and attitudes about the value of human life that civilians don't share. Many of the people coming out simply are used up and not fit for survival in this society.

That's just off the top of my head. And it's just my opinion.

IMO, we don't need affirmative action for the military. We need to start operating honorably in the world for this to change.

And that's not going to happen. We're witnessing the downward spiral (and eventual collapse) of our whole society. This is just one indication of it. Just one signpost along the road.

1. Many Servicemembers volunteered prior to war in Iraq or Afghanistan. Does that show lack of character to you?

2. I have a tendancy to agree with this point, though with reservations.

3. The actual job may be the same, but the environment is SO different, that it might as well be a different job.
You are correct with this point. But that is the same all over when you change jobs. Even in the military, the work environment changes when you transfer to another unit.

4. The standards have actually been raised. Not anyone can enlist nowadays as it is a buyers market and the Military is once again downsizing. The criminal elements are not being allowed in any more. That only happens when the need for more bodies to fight a conflict occurs. You will also notice that many of the crimes committed by servicemembers are disproportionately committed by National Guard or Reserve Soldiers. Usually a segment of the population that already have a job on the outside.

5. I agree with this point, but there are programs to help them…they just aren’t…timely.

reply to post by TinkerHaus


The difference is education and experience. Usually immigrants are integrated and caught up with citizens in only one generation. But Latinos do not increase their education over their parents, and it is taking multiple generations for them to catch up.

Are there disadvantaged groups? Of course.

But vets don't have education and experience gaps. Someone who has been in the military has shown a staying power comparable to civilians,so why should it count against them?

reply to post by nixie_nox


Some of those questions are legal. They're on the employment form.

But the others not so much, and while I have reported a couple of the companies, it boils down to your word against theirs.

I haven't seen anything come of it. With the exception that I won't be considered for employment at those companies anymore.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by TinkerHaus

 

The difference is education and experience. Usually immigrants are integrated and caught up with citizens in only one generation. But Latinos do not increase their education over their parents, and it is taking multiple generations for them to catch up.

Are there disadvantaged groups? Of course.

But vets don't have education and experience gaps. Someone who has been in the military has shown a staying power comparable to civilians,so why should it count against them?

Can you give evidence of these claims?

The statement "Latinos do not increase their education over their parents" I personally know to be false.

My step father's family legally immigrated from Mexico. My step-dad has 5 siblings, all of which are college educated. My pop is a chemist, his brother a software engineer, his other brother breeds exotic birds..

Their parents are farmers.

Military service should not be considered "staying power" because they are required by law to be there. If there weren't such harsh penalties for going AWOL you can bet there would be a much larger problem with abandonment in the military.

I wonder were all those tough love assholes I see in the OWS threads are now?

Too afraid to come tell veterans that they don't have a job because they are lazy?

You know who you are, go F yourselves!

Originally posted by MasterGemini
I wonder were all those tough love assholes I see in the OWS threads are now?

Too afraid to come tell veterans that they don't have a job because they are lazy?

You know who you are, go F yourselves!

Huh?

Did you post to the wrong thread? I don't see how your comments are at all relevant to the discussion here..