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Templars

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posted on Oct, 7 2004 @ 10:37 PM
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For some very good historical fiction, one that I found particularly enjoyable and moving, is "A Booke of Days", by Stephen J. Rivelle.

A very good read. It will certainly increase your interest in the crusades.




posted on Oct, 8 2004 @ 09:51 AM
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I don't actually believe such a powerful organization could have been taken out of the way so easy. They surely didn't say 'OK, Pope said we are bad so let's submit to punishment'



posted on Oct, 8 2004 @ 01:13 PM
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www.templarhistory.com...

Will lead you most places where the Templars are concerned.



posted on Oct, 9 2004 @ 01:32 AM
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billmceligott provides a link to a book seller's web site. While the site has some interesting articles it is a commercial site that billmceligott has an interest in so he may be a tad biased.

I believe that bill, theron and a few others participate in a masonic web site that is also an advertising purveyor for the one bill pointed to. Another interesting aspect of the site is that some of the books they advertise (The Hiram Key, Born in Blood and others) are the same books that some ATS masons on these forums take exception to. Both sites appear to be ezboard forums as well. Good site nonetheless.

Templar site with no commercial interests other than selling themselves and their in-house magazine. Interesting there is no masonic tie- in posted therein.

Another point of Templar interest is this rather strange story:

    The skull and cross-bones, are long known to have Templar and latterly Masonic connections and were commonly used as a symbol on Templar & Masonic grave sites in the past.

    "A great lady of Maraclea was loved by a Templar, A Lord of Sidon; but she died in her youth, and on the night of her burial, this wicked lover crept to the grave, dug up her body and violated it.
    Skull of Sidon . The aforementioned commercial site that has rather extensive listing of articles and books.



posted on Oct, 9 2004 @ 04:50 AM
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I don't think they mean they don't LIKE those books. They just don't consider them historically reliable.

Business is business. If there is a demand for those books, then Bill and whoever else has every right to sell them. Seems people like yourself are interested in them.



[edit on 9-10-2004 by LTD602]



posted on Oct, 9 2004 @ 05:28 AM
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Originally posted by PublicGadfly
billmceligott provides a link to a book seller's web site. While the site has some interesting articles it is a commercial site that billmceligott has an interest in so he may be a tad biased.

I believe that bill, theron and a few others participate in a masonic web site that is also an advertising purveyor for the one bill pointed to. Another interesting aspect of the site is that some of the books they advertise (The Hiram Key, Born in Blood and others) are the same books that some ATS masons on these forums take exception to. Both sites appear to be ezboard forums as well. Good site nonetheless.

Templar site with no commercial interests other than selling themselves and their in-house magazine. Interesting there is no masonic tie- in posted therein.



You can be a nasty piece of work can you not PG.

Polite but stinging, reminds me of someone.

I never leave a link on any web site unless someone has already posted the same site. If you have the time you can easily check every post I have ever made.

Mr. Necross posted the same link in Post # 842321 on this thread.

I have no finacial interest in The Templar web site, neither does anyone else you mentioned.

The Magazine you mentioned does not make a profit and again I do not have any financial interest in that.

Indeed they are excellent sites with a great deal of FREE information on them. You may wish to avail yourself of the FREE information.

If you take the trouble to try out my sites you will find links and RSS feed which leads many people to this site, and this section of the site. I receive no payment for that either.



posted on Oct, 10 2004 @ 02:24 AM
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Pope JPII's pontificate was a great improvement for the Church apart from one way. He still didn't cancel the decision of Council of Viennes. That's what I don't like in him apart from the fact that he avoids visiting my city every time he's in PL.



posted on Oct, 10 2004 @ 09:37 AM
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I do not know much about the Templars, but I know that they had owned some villages in Portugal, because they helped conquer what would become Portugal from the Moors, and the Portuguese king had offered them some parts of the conquered lands, including, if I'm not wrong, where I live, Almada.

Portugal was one of the countries that got many Templars from other countries, because they were not persecuted in Portugal.

The king of Portugal at the time, D. Dinis, said the all the belongings of the Templars in Portugal were not theirs but they only had authorization to use them, all these belongings were property of the crown.
Later he founded the Order of Christ, and this order got all the lands and buildings that were once property of the Templars.

The Order of Christ used also the knowledge of the Templars for nautical things, because they had acquired lots of knowledge in the transportation of the crusaders. The Order of Christ used a cross that could be described as a altered Templar cross.



Maybe they got rich after the Portuguese explorers found the way to far East and Brasil, but I do not know if that is true or, in case it is true, they used that money in the creation of banks.

There are still many churches, castles, etc. that were build by the Templars, mostly in the centre of Portugal, around the city of Tomar.



posted on Oct, 10 2004 @ 11:39 AM
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Did the Templars continue their organization in Portugal? I mean a chivalry order. Did they fight somebody?
Were there any large transfers of money from your country to Switzerland?

[edit on 10-10-2004 by AtheiX]



posted on Oct, 10 2004 @ 01:04 PM
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The Templars ended in 1319, when king Dinis founded the Order of Christ.
This order inherited all of the belongings of the Templars.

Some say that this was a completely new order, others say that it was the same but with a different name.

The Order of Christ was responsible for the Portuguese discoveries of all of the coast of Africa below the Equator, Atlantic islands, South America, and the sea routes to the far East.

After some time the Order of Christ had 5% of all merchandise from the new lands found in Africa.

They lost some influence in the 16th century, and apparently was divided in 2, one religious under the Pope and one civil under the king of Portugal.

In 1789 the Portuguese order was secularised and today is only just a honorific order.

I do not know of any connection with Switzerland.



posted on Oct, 10 2004 @ 01:08 PM
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What about the religious order?
And everyone what happened to Templars in Italy, Germany and Spain (besides Jacob II creating Order of Montesa)?



posted on Oct, 10 2004 @ 02:47 PM
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The religious order is now called "Supreme Order of Christ", and is an honorific order, only the Pope has the power to give it and only to Catholic heads of state.



posted on Oct, 10 2004 @ 03:50 PM
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I read this thread because I wanted serious information on Templars. To my disappointment there was not as much information on Templars as there were arguments about other members and their personal agendas. Perhaps those intrested in bashing each other could go elsewhere for that and any members serious about providing information about Templars could let me know.

Thank you....



posted on Oct, 12 2004 @ 01:37 PM
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Originally posted by HarmoniusOne
I read this thread because I wanted serious information on Templars. To my disappointment there was not as much information on Templars as there were arguments about other members and their personal agendas. Perhaps those intrested in bashing each other could go elsewhere for that and any members serious about providing information about Templars could let me know.

Thank you....

I also wanted serious info on Tenplars. I didn't find out all I wanted but a little. I appreciate it even though. And I didn't argue with others. I hoped a mod's warning will help but some users ignore even that



posted on Oct, 12 2004 @ 04:24 PM
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The Templars is a vast subject what exactly are you looking for.

Give us a place to start, I could fill 50 pages.



posted on Oct, 12 2004 @ 11:56 PM
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    From: A History of the County of Gloucester: Volume XI. N. M. Herbert (Editor) (1976)

    LOCAL GOVERNMENT.
    View of frankpledge and waif were claimed in 1287 by the Knights Templar for their tenants in Culkerton, who attended the view held at Westonbirt twice a year. Otherwise in the Middle Ages the view was held in the hundred court, which in the early 15th century the tithings of Culkerton, Rodmarton Keynes and Rodmarton Trowbridge (i.e. part of Rodmarton and Tarlton) were obliged to attend twice a year. Leet jurisdiction was claimed for Tarlton manor in the 17th century and for Hazleton in the late 18th.

    Shipley - Church
    From: A History of the County of Sussex: Volume VI Part 2. T.P. Hudson (Editor) (1986)

    CHURCH.
    William de Braose (d. 1093 x 1096) gave Shipley church c. 1080 to the abbey of St. Florent, Saumur (Maine et Loire), which granted it back to his son Philip c. 1096 in exchange for Washington church. Philip then gave it to his relative Richard de Harcourt, who gave it to his brother Philip, dean of Lincoln. About 1139 Philip granted it to the Knights Templar, as one of their earliest endowments in England. Shipley was a parish by 1227, but it is not clear whether the Templars ever appointed incumbents. Under their successors the Knights Hospitaller no incumbents were appointed, the cure being served by chaplains, and in 1438 the church was called a chapel. After the Dissolution the benefice came to be regarded as a curacy; after the stipend was augmented from Queen Anne's Bounty in 1728 it was a perpetual curacy. In the later 17th century clergy were sometimes loosely described as vicars. By 1874 the living was called a vicarage, as it remained thereafter.

    City of Westminster - Religious life: Holy Innocents' parish and church
    From: A History of the County of Middlesex: online draft. Patricia Croot (Editor) (2002)

    Holy Innocents' parish and church
    In 1185 John de Sobire of the chapel of the Innocents paid 6d. for the church to the Knights Templar, possibly in acknowledgement of patronage.It as referred to as the church of the Holy Innocents in 1198. Richard was chaplain c.1190. The church was referred to as the white church in the 1190s, either because of its building material or because it was painted white. By the time it was abandoned it was built of stone. The highway nearby was sometimes called vicus Innocentium. The first reference to the parish occurs in 1219. Land in the parish stretched from the highway on the south to the wall of the garden of the abbot (Covent garden) on the north c.1220.

    Woodmancote - Church
    From: A History of the County of Sussex: Volume VI Part 3. T.P. Hudson (Editor) (1987)

    CHURCH.
    The advowson was given by Simon le Count in the mid 1220s to the Knights Templar, passing in the early 14th century to the Knights Hospitaller. The Crown presented in 1308 and 1311. After the Dissolution the advowson remained with the Crown except during the Interregnum. Since 1978 the patronage of the new united benefice has belonged to the bishop.

    Madingley - Economic history
    From: A History of the County of Cambridge and the Isle of Ely: Volume IX. A. P. M. Wright & C. P. Lewis (Editors) (1989)


Some interesting Templar records~



posted on Oct, 13 2004 @ 06:51 AM
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Originally posted by billmcelligott

Give us a place to start, I could fill 50 pages.

As Public has already started the topic of England, how did Edward I respond to Philip's letter about the Templar 'heresy'? What did he do in his kingdom?
What did German Emperor do?



posted on Oct, 13 2004 @ 09:49 AM
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Here is a good article on the Knights Templars

www.newadvent.org...



posted on Oct, 13 2004 @ 12:20 PM
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how did Edward I respond to Philip's letter


He didnt. He was dead by that time. some speculate that his death had something to do with the timing fo the move.

as i recall Edward ll didnt act until Jan. 1308 when he had no choice.



posted on Oct, 13 2004 @ 04:28 PM
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This is what I found about the relation between the Templars and the banks.

In the 13th century, most people did not use money. The Templars, and the other religious military orders, had money because of the lands and goods conquered from the Moors and the lands that the king gave to who help in conquering more land.
With the land they got more money from the goods produced by the people who worked in their lands, do not forget that the people belong to the land, they were almost slaves, they could leave the land but if they stay there, the product of their work was seen as belonging to the land owner.

When that situation changed, people would work for the land owner or for themselves. The land owner lost is source of wealth, and so they started using taxes. If someone made cloth, then that person had the obligation to pay some taxes. If other person made bread, then that person would pay less taxes than the one who made cloth, and only half that if the person only worked as a baker half the year.

Also, the more land was conquered from the Moors, the less was left over to conquer, so the king could not offer more land in exchange for help in the wars. So the king had the need to borrow money from somebody.
The best option was the religious orders, because the obligation they had of not charging interests for the money borrowed.
Was also at this time that the Jews started borrowing money, but they charged sometimes more in interests than the money that the person borrowed, and the result was that the Jews were forbidden from entering some cities.

With time, they started charging some interest for the money, and from that point until today the way people work with money is the same.

PS: excuse me if I did not explain this correctly, but I have some difficulty to write in English.



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