El Psy Congroo

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posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 03:44 PM
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I've been looking into the John Titor story a lot the last few days and it led me to watch the Steins;Gate anime. Be warned this post will contain serious spoilers. Steins;Gate is set in 2010 and involves an organization called SERN (aka CERN), it also has a character based on John Titor, and an IBN 5100 PC (aka IBM 5100). It is truly a very fascinating anime that deals with the concept of time travel in a multiverse where anything and everything is happening somewhere, as proposed by Titor.

They start off using a simple machine that can send mobile (cellular) text messages to a phone in the past, provided you know the number for the phone. Then they created a time machine which allowed them to save a persons memories (as information), then they somehow used the LHC to generate a mini-blackhole to compress the memory data and then literally plant those memories into your past self. So your mind essentially gets transmitted into the mind of yourself in the past. At the end they use a full fledged time machine (get in it and go) but they didn't create it, it came from the year 2036.

As I watched this show I was fascinated by the complex concepts involved. It was interesting to see how Titors time line theory might work, and it gave me a chance to look for flaws in the concept. It seems they did pretty well in writing a story about time travel that made sense. However, there are a few things which they either didn't account for or just simply ignored. For instance when the main character sends his memories back in time it's unlikely that he would suddenly disappear, but that's the impression I got.

If proposition #1 is correct it means that each time the main character uses a time machine to get himself out of a sticky situation, all he's actually doing is creating another time line on which that situation no longer has the chance to manifest. He isn't erasing entire time lines to fix the problems. He's simply creating new ones, but those new ones don't affect the present time line. It wouldn't even appear to work unless you transmitted physical matter, only the person in the past who received the memories or text message would know it worked.

Proposition #1 - splitting a time line

The moment something from the future enters the past is when the time line gets split. It doesn't get split when you tread on a bug or when you kill your own father. Your mere presence in the past is a change to that timeline, thus it must split from the original. The same thing applies for any information sent to the past. The presence of that information in a time where it didn't normally exist is in fact a change.

Problem #1 - what's actually changing?

If proposition #1 is correct, then it wouldn't it be practical to send a text, or memories, or yourself, into the past. You could send the information (or yourself) into the past, but doing so would cause the time line to split at the exact date and time the information entered the past. It stands to reason that the change would only affect the new time line, but the original one would remain the same.

Proposition #2 - infinite sea of potential

There is an infinite or near infinite amount of time lines with endless differences and it's impossible to tell how your actions may fracture the time line ahead of you. Thus you can't be sure of exactly where you came from if the path(s) which you followed to get to the past are now rearranged and altered in a way that can't be monitored or referenced with anything else.

Problem #2 - where did I come from?

If proposition #2 is correct it means that once leaving your own time line the chances of getting back to your original time line would be virtually nil unless you had a device which could specifically tune in to certain time lines. This isn't a paradox but it is a problem. The only practical way to tell if you've entered back into your original time line is if you are missing from that time line.

 

Please note that problem #2 is not really a problem with the integrity of the time line theory, but it would be a problem for any time traveler that wanted to make sure they could get back to where they came from. Once you leave home you better be prepared to get yourself tangled in a complex web of time lines with people who might appear to be your original friends and family, but there's no real way to tell. Even if you are missing in that time line there's more than one reason you could be missing.

Attractor Field Convergence

This is a theory presented in Steins;Gate, I'm not sure if Titor mentioned it in real life. Apparently many time lines share the same future state, but the events leading up to the shared state are different. These common time lines form a "time rope". A rope is made up of many threads all winding and weaving around each other. Each thread goes from the start to the finish of the rope, but every thread takes a different route to get there. Common destination; different path.

If this theory is correct it would suggest that there are points in the overall time line structure where multiple paths converge into the same time line. There may in fact be singularity points in time where multiple time lines simultaneously reach a shared state and "fuse" into one time line, one reality. The time-wave zero theory shows indications that 2012 may contain a large time singularity. It's possible that our time line converges with others quite frequently, but on a smaller scale (deja vu could be memories of your alternative self).
edit on 17-10-2011 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 03:47 PM
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I'm flagging this because Steins;Gate is one of the best anime series that I've ever seen.

"Hey mister I am mad scientist...it's so coooool...sonovabitch!"



posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 03:51 PM
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Originally posted by illuminatislave
I'm flagging this because Steins;Gate is one of the best anime series that I've ever seen.

"Hey mister I am mad scientist...it's so coooool...sonovabitch!"
Yeah it's freakin awesome! Funny and smart. I was blown away by the sheer complexity and magnificence of the story. This was my favorite comedic part:

You have to have seen it to know the joke
edit on 17-10-2011 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 03:55 PM
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haha I've watched the entire series, the lab coats are awesome



posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 03:57 PM
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I cant wait until the VN gets done being translated. Just got done playing tsukihime and i am aching for a new game.

vn.shourai.net...

They are already done and just need to edit it.

I was skeptical when i first heard about steins;gate after the whole chaos;head fiasco. It was awesome. Definatley a pleasant surprise.

As for the concepts presented. They were unrealistic and were hand waved for the most part. Still incredibly fun.

Also, watch out for traps.
edit on 17-10-2011 by TsukiLunar because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 04:03 PM
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reply to post by TsukiLunar
 


Yeah, it is interesting to think about creating different 'world lines', but it is a work of fiction after all. I highly doubt one could really be able to send their memories or text messages to the past.

But you never know



posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 04:09 PM
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reply to post by illuminatislave
 


Play the VN when it gets done. You get to PICK the routes and heroine.

Also, if you want a wild story, play Tsukihime. I am still reeling from that ride.



posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 04:09 PM
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reply to post by TsukiLunar
 




As for the concepts presented. They were unrealistic and were hand waved for the most part. Still incredibly fun.
Yeah well I partially agree with you on that. They did alright with the whole time line concept, but the devices they built and how they worked was a bit vague and unrealistic. Probably because the writers didn't actually know how to build a time machine. And they also need to keep it relatively simple. I mean they were still talking about kerr blackholes and things like that. The whole "Attractor Field Convergence" thing also seems like a vague reference to something like the attractors in chaos theory. The way they explained it seems to slot in well with the time wave zero theory actually, I'm pretty sure TWZ math is based on chaos theory too.
edit on 17-10-2011 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 04:13 PM
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reply to post by ChaoticOrder
 


You going to play the VN?



posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by ChaoticOrder
 


You going to play the VN?
Nah I don't really play many games. I read there was a game, I assume that's you're referring to, I'm not sure what VN stands for?

edit: oh visual novel, right.
edit on 17-10-2011 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 04:22 PM
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reply to post by ChaoticOrder
 


Its a book. On the computer. There is no gameplay. Its almost exactly like watching an anime except you sometime get to choose the actions. Which branches the story. There are no animated scenes, but images that show up to give it more character.

The anime is an adaption of the Visual Novel(VN), it only covers one route of the story. To experience all plot twist, explanations, endings, and character interactions you need to read the VN.



posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 04:27 PM
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reply to post by TsukiLunar
 




The anime is an adaption of the Visual Novel(VN), it only covers one route of the story. To experience all plot twist, explanations, endings, and character interactions you need to read the VN.
Do I really need to confuse myself more than I already have?
Just watching him go through all those time lines made me feel nauseous. I'm not used to a style of story where the characters are never really the same characters (apart from the main dude). Problem #2 could do major psychological damage.
edit on 17-10-2011 by ChaoticOrder because: spelling



posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 04:38 PM
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reply to post by ChaoticOrder
 


Your missing out on a lot by not pursing it. I cant speak for steins, but i can tell you that the VN's are always better than the anime.

What anime have you seen? Clannad, Fate/Stay Night, Air, School Days, Higurashi no Naru Kai, Umineko no Naru Kai, and more were adapted from way better VN's.



posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 05:25 PM
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reply to post by TsukiLunar
 


Oh you're not talking about manga are you? That's the same thing as a visual novel I'm assuming? Yeah I have a few. I might get the Steins;Gate manga next time I have a couple of hours to waste.



posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 05:37 PM
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reply to post by ChaoticOrder
 


No, manga is different. I am not surprised you dont know what i am talking about, VN are not very popular in America.


This is what Steins gate will look like(Love the art btw). And its voiced! Though this translation is a little off.


VN's are just Manga and Anime unknown sister. Then there are light novels which are even more unknown.

Manga

Anime

Visual Novels

Light Novel

Four aspects to 'Anime' fandom.
edit on 17-10-2011 by TsukiLunar because: (no reason given)





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