Astronaunt Credibility: What do we believe?

Originally posted by disownedsky

Originally posted by Human_Alien
reply to post by Arbitrageur

 

99% of people realize the contactees are likely to be lying or delusional, especially the ones reporting contact with humanoids from Venus where it's hot enough to melt lead.

Where are you getting that statistic from? Was that just an arbitrary amount you picked because I passionately disagree.

And your line; "Venus where it's hot enough to melt lead" is being and staying ignorant.

Melting point of lead: 327.5 deg C
Temperature on surface of Venus: 480 deg C.

Original claim survives quick fact check.

Wall = solid sheetrock, nails, studs and aluminum siding.
Person = bones, organs and tissue
Person goes through wall anyway.

All science is now out-dated.
Guess you have to experience it to ever consider it unfortunately.

WHOA Whoa whoa. I want to see a source on this like yesterday, Its not that I don't believe you its just I want to see it for myself! If our moon/space walkers say theres aliens then theres aliens!

Originally posted by Mcupobob
WHOA Whoa whoa. I want to see a source on this like yesterday, Its not that I don't believe you its just I want to see it for myself! If our moon/space walkers say theres aliens then theres aliens!

If they told you there was a Noah's Ark, would you conclude there really was a Noah's Ark?

reply to post by JimOberg


You're referring to Jim Irwin, of course.

What a shame that a man of his talents wastes his life in such frivolous endeavors. Of course, many other Astronauts had religious beliefs too.

But, belief in a children's story from a ~4,000 - 6,000 year old book of lore and parables doesn't necessarily diminish their ability to perform duties of aerospace expertise, such as flying an airplane....or learning rocket science.

reply to post by JimOberg


No because that would be silly. Though as to someone who has been the freaking moon, I think I would trust their opinion on aliens. Though I'll admit I have a soft spot in my heart for aliens and love to hear any proof about them.

Originally posted by Mcupobob
reply to post by JimOberg

 

No because that would be silly. Though as to someone who has been the freaking moon, I think I would trust their opinion on aliens. Though I'll admit I have a soft spot in my heart for aliens and love to hear any proof about them.

edit on 10/17/2011 by Mcupobob because: (no reason given)

It remains plausible that encounters with ETI or detection of traces of ETI activity would be enabled by space exploration, but what seems to be happening is that so much 'noise' -- garbled and falsified stories -- are jamming our sensory system that any genuine evidence would have a hard time being detected or recognized.

Originally posted by Mcupobob
reply to post by JimOberg

 

No because that would be silly. Though as to someone who has been the freaking moon, I think I would trust their opinion on aliens. Though I'll admit I have a soft spot in my heart for aliens and love to hear any proof about them.

edit on 10/17/2011 by Mcupobob because: (no reason given)

And Irwin has a soft spot in his heart for a fundamentalist view of Holy Scripture.

And there may be an Ark, and there may be aliens-- but no persuasive evidence has yet come to light for either.

Yet, if Irwin and I were discussing it, I would have no problem offering an alternative explanation which I believe is both and at once more productive and more meaningful-- which is, basically:

It is better to look for truth in your beliefs then it is to look for proof of your beliefs-- You may believe correctly, but for the wrong reasons and so miss what there is to do about it.

reply to post by Cosmic911

Gordon Cooper, Edgar Mitchell, and Buzz Adrin have publically stated their belief that we have been visited by extraterrestrial entities.

Boncho has already made the principal objection to your proposition. Besides, what’s so credible about astronauts? What makes their opinions on this subject any more valuable than that of the average citizen?

Just for the record, Gordon Cooper was just a pilot with an honorary Ph.D, Buzz Aldrin has insisted repeatedly that he never saw anything extraterrestrial, and Ed Mitchell is as mad as a hatstand.

Astronauts are just people. And the Apollo astronauts were not, on the whole, very smart people. Deke Slayton saw to that, because he believed only real macho men deserved to go to the Moon.

reply to post by Cosmic911


My thoughts are that the people who know the truth do not tell the public the truth because they don't want the truth mocked, the truth doesn't deserve to be told to everyone because that would be giving it to the wrong hands. Thats why they didn't tell us directly.

Originally posted by Human_Alien

Wall = solid sheetrock, nails, studs and aluminum siding.
Person = bones, organs and tissue
Person goes through wall anyway.

Oh, you mean like this for instance:

All science is now out-dated.

Yes I have seen and filmed craft that have obvious alien technology that proves your statement to be true beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Guess you have to experience it to ever consider it unfortunately.

Odd but true.

As more and more people see UFOs, it will become pointless what the government's or anybody else's public stance is about the subject. In other words, no one can hide the observable evidence forever, no matter how hard they try. The few people who haven't seen the evidence yet might still fall for someone's doctrine, but one day the reality will eventually become evident. This natural process can only be slowed down, but not avoided. I know that most people want to find out NOW, but I guess for most of us it will take a lot of patience, just like many other things in life do...

Hi fellas

Can I pop my head up and wave the white flag just for a second........ so i dont get my head blown off in this fire fight

Anyways I would like to chuck in my worthless 2 cents worth, and add that I have seen what I percieve as non earth made craft at close proximity so my stance is they are here to investigate or send out a drone or two at the least.

As for the Gordon and Mitchell well it must be hard for them to come out of the closet with these statements as they would no the damage that it would cause thier standing, wouldnt it not?

So whos Jim! some ex sacked Nasa office chick?

Dont shoot the piano player :

Originally posted by Astyanax, and Ed Mitchell is as mad as a hatstand.

But the question is... is Edgar Mitchell credible? He represents 8.3% of the Apollo astronauts (1 out of 12) who claim to have walked on the moon.

Astronaut credibility is a very touchy subject. I've found that out by debating with Apollo believers here on ATS. Is it a fair opinion to say that Ed Mitchell is telling the truth about walking on the Moon, then, otoh, to say Ed Mitchell is crazy when he talks about a Roswell cover-up?

The Apollo-era astros were media heroes, in fact, they were heroes before they ever landed on the Moon thanks to newspaper and TV coverage of missions. It's clear that a minimal analysis of 1960s newspaper media is a virtual minefield of propaganda.

You may observe in the 1960s newspapers: black people were referred to collectively as "the Negroes". A Soviet Communist was referred to as "Red", collectively as "The Reds", singularly as "Ivan" or "Cong".
The 1950s newspapers were an even worse time for minorities, women and patriotic insanity.

Back to Ed Mitchell. He was a hero. But then he started talking about things that NASA didn't like, Roswell and ET's. Ed Mitchell recently tried to auction a camera he brought back from the Moon ( the DAC 16-mm camera that NASA had intended to be destroyed when the Lunar Module crashed back on the surface ). What happened is that Ed Mitchell is in hot water with NASA... for this camera.

We know that NASA is very protective of it's public image. NASA has huge propaganda staff (EPO) who "educate" journalists about every subject. NASA is also very much involved in "educating" school kids about space.

So when Al Worden (Apollo 15 CMP) was FIRED for bringing 1: bringing undeclared contraband on the flight, in fact, several hundred postal covers, which were to be used for his own financial gain) and for 2: stating at a press conference that his EVA was like being on a stage with a huge spotlight, is he credible or not credible???
Here's the quote:

Originally posted by SayonaraJupiter
But the question is... is Edgar Mitchell credible?

If Edgar Mitchell says he believes that the Earth is being visited by aliens, it depends on how you evaluate the credibility. I have no reason to doubt that if he says he believes that, he really believes that. So I find a claim of him expressing his beliefs to be completely credible.

The more important question to me is, does he have any rational basis for having those beliefs? That is not a question of credibility, but a question of evidence and rational thought. Since he won't reveal specific sources and specific evidence it's difficult to evaluate that claim. But Buzz Aldrin explained it best when he quoted Sagan: "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". There is certainly nothing in the way of extraordinary eviidence coming from Mitchell.

So when Al Worden (Apollo 15 CMP) was FIRED for bringing 1: bringing undeclared contraband on the flight, in fact, several hundred postal covers, which were to be used for his own financial gain) and for 2: stating at a press conference that his EVA was like being on a stage with a huge spotlight, is he credible or not credible???
Here's the quote:

Sorry, I don't even understand the point of your question? What is so hard to understand about the analogy of a spotlight shining on a dark stage compared to a bright light source like the sun shining in the darkness of space?

In contrast to an extraordinary claim of alien visitation, it seems like a very ordinary claim not requiring any extraordinary evidence. Why would you even ask about that? I don't understand.

reply to post by JimOberg


In Britain we have the Official Secrets Act and the penalty once one is slapped with a notice of a possible violation is quite enough to keep all our military personnel quiet. I don't doubt the USA has exactly the same type of act and repercussions. The thing about this is that even mentioning this act is involved I suspect, would be enough to put you in deep trouble and ruin you.

If I get time to watch the 'documentary channel ' and they repeat the programme I watched with the British and French Pilots and passengers experience I will get more details and the year.

Originally posted by SayonaraJupiter
So when Al Worden (Apollo 15 CMP) was FIRED for bringing 1: bringing undeclared contraband on the flight, in fact, several hundred postal covers, which were to be used for his own financial gain) and for 2: stating at a press conference that his EVA was like being on a stage with a huge spotlight, is he credible or not credible???

Thanks for digging up Worden's quote. But I know of no evidence that it had anything to do with his being reprimanded [not fired] for the postage stamp deal.

Say-Jup, to appreciate his quote you might be aided by knowing why his space walk was fundamentally different from every previous Apollo space walk, or actually, every previous spacewalk in human history. You do know the difference, don't you?

Originally posted by Lynda101
reply to post by JimOberg

 

In Britain we have the Official Secrets Act and the penalty once one is slapped with a notice of a possible violation is quite enough to keep all our military personnel quiet. I don't doubt the USA has exactly the same type of act and repercussions. ....

As a general principle in assessing life's mysteries, Lynda, I would advise you try one word.

DOUBT.

Don't EVER "NOT doubt" ANYthing.

Originally posted by Cosmic911

Originally posted by expat2368
I am constantly amazed that people refuse to believe even our own astronauts.

Everyone is screaming for "disclosure", what do they want? The Astronauts come out and openly state the y have seen ET craft and say we are being visited and it is met with disbelief. Millions spent to train those guys, professionals who have been into space and even to the Moon.. and they are not believed.

It just is beyond comprehension.

I tend to feel the same way as you. Gordon Cooper had a pretty significant sitting at Edwards AFB, filmed to boot, of course the Pentagon quickly secured it. Mitchell, while intelligent and well spoken, I find nebulous at times. Aldrin I find right in the middle of the two. Now Armstrong, I find most intresting. I thought it odd that Vice Pres Gore thanked him for his "silent service." I believe he has taken his oath of silence most literal, and it bothers him, which is why he has said very little about the subject, neither confirming oe denying Aldrins claims. Yes, I believe we have a great deal of disclosure.

Cooper is also on record stating that he and other members of his squadron were scrambled several times to chase high flying, fast moving, UFO's over Germany while he was stationed there after the war. He said that they were disk shaped, metallic, and under intelligent control. He also stated that they were too high and too fast for his fighter to catch.

reply to post by SayonaraJupiter


SJ, in your book ALL Apollo astronauts are liars, frauds and propaganda puppets.

Originally posted by seabhac-rua
Cooper is also on record stating that he and other members of his squadron were scrambled several times to chase high flying, fast moving, UFO's over Germany while he was stationed there after the war. He said that they were disk shaped, metallic, and under intelligent control. He also stated that they were too high and too fast for his fighter to catch.

He indeed did tell that story. So... what would be the reasonable response in checking it out? Maybe -- seek corroborative testimony from other witnesses he says were there? Yuh think?