Astronaunt Credibility: What do we believe?

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posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 10:45 PM
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Of course, and add to this pilots, radar staff, police officers, the list goes on. Though I tend to support mostly, astonauts and grass roots people. The cia backgrounds of a few, tend to put me off. The military and kabbala backgrounds of others do as well.




posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 10:45 PM
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Not only do I believe that these men (as well as the current astronauts serving on the ISS and Space Shuttle missions) see and have seen ET craft on a fairly regular basis, I also believe that the men who were on the Moon missions saw structures and artifacts there that we are not being told about.....



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 10:57 PM
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Of course they're just as believable as the Buzz Aldrins who REFUSE to believe in alien life!! And then we have James Oberg who is a NASA damage-control patrolmen. He constantly defends anything that's shifty, shaky or questionable when it comes to NASA.


What I don't understand is how they, these astronauts are (were) allowed to discuss this matter. I have my suspicions that astronauts get debriefed and brainwashed when they get back.
It's my belief that they are instructed to talk in 'code' via transmissions if they came across anything indiscernible like the "Santa Claus" remark by Aldrin (even though Buzz attempts to explain this later on) and then, they go through some sort of procedure (under the auspices of decontamination) of being brainwashed.



It is my belief that the brainwashing might've washed clean before it was supposed to... of some astronauts (like Story Musgrave, Gordon Cooper, Edgar Mitchell, etc) which is why they remember/and are talking. There is still probably some oath they're under (probably one with dire consequences) so they're cognizant and purposefully not blurting out the whole story due to their obligation and 'oath'.



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 11:04 PM
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Originally posted by Cosmic911
Gordon Cooper, Edgar Mitchell, and Buzz Adrin have publically stated their belief that we have been visited by extraterrestrial entities. These are highly decorated American heroes, M.I.T. Graduates, and experienced combat pilots. What are we to believe? I tend to believe them as credible witnesses. Did they really see E.T. UFOs? Or did they see secret advanced aircraft?

I pose this question to forum members...what are your thoughts on this subject.



Buzz Aldrin has publicly denied any dealing with alien life. In fact he does not believe in UFOs (that we see). He sorta says 'life has to exist outside our planet' but he adamantly denies we know about this.

There is something is amiss with that man. I think the brainwashing did some psychological damage. He became an alcoholic which I s'pose, doesn't mean much except, he lost his will-power.

It's been stated that many astronauts have returned from their mission, depressed. I wonder what causes that? (see: Brainwashing?)



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 11:10 PM
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Originally posted by expat2368
I am constantly amazed that people refuse to believe even our own astronauts.

Everyone is screaming for "disclosure", what do they want? The Astronauts come out and openly state they have seen ET craft and say we are being visited and it is met with disbelief. Millions spent to train those guys, professionals who have been into space and even to the Moon.. and they are not believed.

It just is beyond comprehension.



But what CONSTANTLY happens is....there is a smear-committee that goes after these people in the media.

Story Musgrave is eccentric.
Edgar Mitchell is loopy.
Gordon Cooper was senile.

It's fascinating. The people on this planet tend to forget what people actually say as long as they constantly have the media thinking for them!



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 11:13 PM
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Originally posted by Human_Alien

Originally posted by expat2368
I am constantly amazed that people refuse to believe even our own astronauts.

Everyone is screaming for "disclosure", what do they want? The Astronauts come out and openly state they have seen ET craft and say we are being visited and it is met with disbelief. Millions spent to train those guys, professionals who have been into space and even to the Moon.. and they are not believed.

It just is beyond comprehension.



But what CONSTANTLY happens is....there is a smear-committee that goes after these people in the media.

Story Musgrave is eccentric.
Edgar Mitchell is loopy.
Gordon Cooper was senile.

It's fascinating. The people on this planet tend to forget what people actually say as long as they constantly have the media thinking for them!


I think those whose job entails disinformation are very good at what they do!



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 11:39 PM
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Guys... I hope you'll forgive me, and not think me loopy, senile, or the end product of a brainwashing session. I am as curious as any of you about life "out there". The main problem I have with it is that now it has become so day to day, and mis-directed that very few people pay attention anymore.

If there was a government conspiracy out there, putting sessions on TV like "Ancient Aliens" and letting these yahoos make so much smoke about things they have no clue about, is one easy way to do it. I mean... Really... As far as they're concerned, virtually everything is alien in origin, and humanity gets no credit for even being able to wipe their butts.

The other way is to put it out there in such a way that it becomes everyday knowledge... Again, we have Mitchell, Aldrin, etc. out there saying, "Yes! We Have!" And you guys are sitting around saying that you won't believe them unless they... Whatever your method of proving their honesty and so on is, requires. One of them is depressed, another loopy, probably at least one is an alcoholic. The unfortunate thing is that these issues are caused by other etiologies, as well as the Extra-Terrestrials... And I, not being an expert, have never seen any evidence that the astronauts are brainwashed.

I'm not trying to get folks angered with me, but I'd like to see a little more "adult" and serious discussion... Stuff that doesn't come off sounding like a 1990's X-Files dialogue. As I said, I hope you will forgive me for such an indirect incursion, when I can't even be anymore specific than that. I guess I'll know it when I see it? LOL!

Thanks for putting up with me.



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 11:42 PM
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UFO sightings are now so common the military doesn't have time to worry about them. . . . When a UFO appears, they simply ignore it. Unconventional targets are ignored because apparently we are only interested in the Russian targets, possible enemy targets. Something that hovers in the air then shoots off at 5,000 miles per hour doesn't interest us because it can't be the enemy.
UFOs are picked up by ground and air radar, and they have been photographed by gun cameras all along. There are so many UFOs in the sky that the Air Force has had to employ special radar networks to screen them out.
--Lee Katchen, NASA atmospheric physicist, June 7, 1968


Mission control, we have a UFO pacing our position; request instructions.
--Astronaut Cady Coleman, NASA astronaut (transmission during Shuttle mission STS-73)


In my official status, I cannot comment on ET contact. However, personally, I can assure you, we are not alone!
--Charles J. Camarda, Ph.D., NASA astronaut


At no time when the astronauts were in space were they alone. There was a constant surveillance by UFOs.
--Scott Carpenter, NASA astronaut


We all know that UFOs are real. All we need to ask is where do they come from, and what do they want?
--Dr. Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 astronaut


I was testing a P-51 fighter in Minneapolis when I spotted this object. I was at about 10,000 feet on a nice, bright, sunny afternoon. I thought the object was a kite, then I realized that no kite is gonna fly that high.
As I got closer it looked like a weather balloon, gray and about three feet in diameter. But as soon as I got behind the darn thing it didn't look like a balloon anymore. It looked like a saucer, a disk.
About the same time, I realized that it was suddenly going away from me. And there I was, running at about 300 miles per hour. I tracked it for a little way, and then all of a sudden the damn thing just took off. It pulled about a 45-degree climbing turn and accelerated and just flat disappeared.
--Donald Slayton, (later Mercury astronaut), 1951




It's said, Jim.
edit on 16-10-2011 by xpoq47 because: addition



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 11:58 PM
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Originally posted by sigung86
Guys... I hope you'll forgive me, and not think me loopy, senile, or the end product of a brainwashing session. I am as curious as any of you about life "out there". The main problem I have with it is that now it has become so day to day, and mis-directed that very few people pay attention anymore.

If there was a government conspiracy out there, putting sessions on TV like "Ancient Aliens" and letting these yahoos make so much smoke about things they have no clue about, is one easy way to do it. I mean... Really... As far as they're concerned, virtually everything is alien in origin, and humanity gets no credit for even being able to wipe their butts.

The other way is to put it out there in such a way that it becomes everyday knowledge... Again, we have Mitchell, Aldrin, etc. out there saying, "Yes! We Have!" And you guys are sitting around saying that you won't believe them unless they... Whatever your method of proving their honesty and so on is, requires. One of them is depressed, another loopy, probably at least one is an alcoholic. The unfortunate thing is that these issues are caused by other etiologies, as well as the Extra-Terrestrials... And I, not being an expert, have never seen any evidence that the astronauts are brainwashed.

I'm not trying to get folks angered with me, but I'd like to see a little more "adult" and serious discussion... Stuff that doesn't come off sounding like a 1990's X-Files dialogue. As I said, I hope you will forgive me for such an indirect incursion, when I can't even be anymore specific than that. I guess I'll know it when I see it? LOL!

Thanks for putting up with me.



I think your post was to the point and good
but let me ask you something, do you know or do we know what brainwashing even looks like? Do you know or do we know how astronauts are supposed to act?
If we're dealing with the government (and, we are) they will make any James Bond movie look like a cartoon! The government (military, science) is quite capable of 'doing things' that we can't even begin to imagine. So brainwashing? I'd imagine that's kindergarten crap!

I think some of the issue is, this (alien acknowledgment) is so compartmentalized that there's layers and layers of people who are slowly letting the desensitizing began from a very low level. The media. But someone gave the go-ahead to allow this.

Just look how far we've come since 1980! What?....there hasn't been any 'public' UFO sighting that's been endorsed so why is it we're getting more exposure to it? (it's a rhetorical question because i think I know).....because the dam is breaking and the water is seeping out faster and more steady with each passing day.

So we have to conclude that this is an agenda. A plan. It's been devised, Now, I don't understand the 411 of the Elite or how the power structure of the PTB works but it's pretty obvious that something is happening when clearly nothing has happened to make this happen.


And according to Clifford Stone, the cats got to come out of the bag before 2016. Because by then, there will be no more denying this.

And the fact that the Vatican is now on board the alien wagon-train has really got to make ya wonder "WTF is going on here and....why?"



posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 12:11 AM
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Can anyone point to any genuine investigations of the stories from Gordon Cooper, for example, comparing his accounts to those of other witnesses and documents? Or is the consensus that all his stories are automatically authentic without need for verification or investigation? Just asking.



posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 12:18 AM
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Originally posted by JimOberg
Can anyone point to any genuine investigations of the stories from Gordon Cooper, for example, comparing his accounts to those of other witnesses and documents? Or is the consensus that all his stories are automatically authentic without need for verification or investigation? Just asking.




What took you so long?


In all due respect, what are you asking? What investigations of what stories? You mean the 'interviews' Cooper's given?? When have interviews turned into 'stories'? Oh I know, when they are about to get debunked.


See folks? This is what I mean.



posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 12:22 AM
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Originally posted by Cosmic911
Gordon Cooper, Edgar Mitchell, and Buzz Adrin have publically stated their belief that we have been visited by extraterrestrial entities. I pose this question to forum members...what are your thoughts on this subject.
Gordon Cooper was caught lying, and he backed off of his story about Edwards but that never gets circulated as much as his original story where he lied:

www.zipworld.com.au...

As to the accuracy of the rest of Cooper's recollection of the "Edwards UFO", eyewitness Gettys had this to say in 1982: "I am amazed that Gordon Cooper said the object landed -- as far as I know, he never even saw it.... His story sounds kind of funny to me."


Finally Cooper admitted he never saw it:


... Cooper ...evidently had same misgivings about the case. In 1978, in his second interview with Spiegel (this time for OMNI), he evaded any discussion of the Edwards case by saying, "I'd just as soon not get into the Edwards incident. I didn't get to see anything personally, it was all second hand evidence really." That it was, and Cooper's caution was commendable -- if perhaps a bit tardy....

it is clear that the "Cooper UFO legend" is quite inaccurate here. No coverup or information loss was involved. The "UFO" never landed. Cooper had nothing to do with the incident (he was not connected with the film crew in any official capacity, and they had never heard of him)
That's got to be one of the biggest legends in UFOlogy. For some reason Cooper's admission he never saw anything never get's circulated as widely as his story about what he supposedly saw and supposedly filmed, but didn't.

Edgar Mitchell never personally saw anything, though he does apparently believe in ET visitation. However I'm not sure what this proves, lots of people believe in ET visitation, but nobody has proof.

I don't think you can back up your claim about Buzz Aldrin. Yes there are lots of videos on youtube of him saying lots of things, but none if them I've seen back up your claim. If you think there's a video that backs up your claim, post it, but I'm betting there isn't one.

Moreover he had this to say, that we have no extraordinary evidence to backup the extraordinary claims of alien visitation so he's not going to believe it until we do have extraordinary evidence. There's an ATS thread on this.

Buzz Aldrin says there are no Aliens!
At least try to get your facts straight my friend. one way to do this would be to quote your sources, as others in this thread have requested. Your hand-waving argument that "there are videos posted on youtube" doesn't cut it, especially when they contradict your claim in the case of Buzz Aldrin.
edit on 17-10-2011 by Arbitrageur because: clarification



posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 12:25 AM
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You mean THESE stories?





If this is what you mean and meant, let me ask you, what advantage would Cooper have to make up these stories? And since when would a qualified astronauts need a witness to verify his word?

I don't get it.
But more so, I don't understand what's it to you (all the time) unless you're on NASA payroll. Are you?



posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 12:29 AM
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reply to post by Arbitrageur
 


So another words, a qualified, competent, sane and educated astronaut has the motive to lie???

Well guess what then? You don't get to pick and choose whose lying because as far as I can tell, one bad apple (according to you) just spoiled the whole entire barrel including all the astronauts who claim to see, nothing! They are all capable of lying.



posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 12:30 AM
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I see lots of quotes, repeated all over the net, which supposedly quote Astronaut Story Musgrave's pro-ET statement. And no stronger source.

Then I see in an reasonably stable open news site this:

www.huffingtonpost.com...


You know all the new websites about the new freaking iphone? "Stuff" that Siri Says"?

I think lots of people are writing "Stuff" that Astronauts Didn't Actually Say.

Let's have some documented primary quotes from Mr Musgrave:



Musgrave -- who logged 25 million miles during six space shuttle missions and who developed the spacesuit that was used by shuttle astronauts for space walks -- says that, despite dozens of military eyewitnesses, photos, films and corroborating radar reports, he's still not convinced.

"Some astronauts have been quoted as saying they think they're [aliens] out there -- I have seen their evidence, and for me, it's not evidence," he said. "Other astronauts were not able to provide me with any empirical evidence, either."

Musgrave is the keynote speaker at the MUFON event. During his many years with NASA, he says he actually looked for evidence of a UFO conspiracy from within the space agency and the government.

"I've been as deep in the military as you can go. I was Marine Corps and Air Force and spent all this time with the government -- I was on two classified department of defense missions, which got me as deep in the bowels of the military and the intelligence community as you can go," he insisted.

"I found no conspiracy in terms of covering up information about extraterrestrial visits. I simply didn't find it!"



posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 12:37 AM
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Originally posted by Human_Alien
If this is what you mean and meant, let me ask you, what advantage would Cooper have to make up these stories? And since when would a qualified astronauts need a witness to verify his word?


So you've swallowed the NASA codswollop about the super-human space heroes and their olympian perfection? Who are you accusing of being a dupe of 'NASA propaganda'? Seems like YOU'RE the brainwashed one.

How about this 'since when' -- anybody making an extraordinary claim must be checked up on, especially those whose stories fit existing belief systems apparently so perfectly.

Can you use the internet to find information about the cost to hundreds of space workers and space community organizations who in the 1980s invested millions of dollars in aerospace industry investment schemes endorsed by Cooper? They all lost all their money.

They, like you, took Cooper's word as the sole source of reliable information. Are you saying they were prudent to have done so?

Cooper claims in his autobiography to have saved the space shuttle program from a lethal design flaw by relaying a telepathic message from apparent space aliens. Would you object to anyone seeking corroborative evidence for this, or do you advocate that your audience believe the story and avoid checking on it?

Just asking.



I don't get it.
But more so, I don't understand what's it to you (all the time) unless you're on NASA payroll. Are you?


Is that your only excuse -- that any evidence that threatens your feel-good belief system must be fabricated by paid liars? Grow up.

Too bad you weren't around to invest your money in the Cooper-promoted bunko schemes. You might have received a costly lesson.



posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 12:42 AM
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Originally posted by Human_Alien
reply to post by Arbitrageur
 


So another words, a qualified, competent, sane and educated astronaut has the motive to lie???

Well guess what then? You don't get to pick and choose whose lying because as far as I can tell, one bad apple (according to you) just spoiled the whole entire barrel including all the astronauts who claim to see, nothing! They are all capable of lying.


I don't recall I've ever accused Cooper or Mitchell of lying. Cooper clearly was telling the kinds of stories to please his audiences at UFO conventions and late-night talk radio, the last public venues that would invite him to appear after he so disgraced himself in the space community that people just wrote him off.

But if you believe NASA hero-worship propaganda I guess all those sad events -- including his being denied promotion from backup to prime crew for an Apollo lunar landing based on inadequate competence in training, leading to his angry resignation from the space program -- never happened, or if they did happen, you want them covered up. Just asking.

edit on 17-10-2011 by JimOberg because: speaking only for myself....



posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 12:43 AM
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well the only thing we can do is take there word for it! whether you believe or not is up to you.

it seems to me that there just giving what is ordered of them! don't give to much just a nudge and let there imagination go crazy! i could be wrong?



posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 12:43 AM
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Originally posted by Human_Alien
So another words, a qualified, competent, sane and educated astronaut has the motive to lie???

Well guess what then? You don't get to pick and choose whose lying because as far as I can tell, one bad apple (according to you) just spoiled the whole entire barrel including all the astronauts who claim to see, nothing! They are all capable of lying.
You seem to have problems with reading comprehension. I said Cooper lied. I didn't accuse any other astronauts of lying.

But it is interesting that of the three examples in the OP, the ONLY one who claims to have seen a UFO land, lied about it. I didn't accuse Mitchell of lying, he doesn't have to lie because he doesn't claim he saw anything. And I certainly don't think Aldrin lied. He tells stories in a colorful way perhaps, but it's transparent that's what he's doing, so he's not lying. (I'm thinking of his comment about some people wondering who put the monolith on Mars' moon).



posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 12:45 AM
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Believe noone and nothing. They all lie.





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