The biggest obsticle to a movement like OWS

I have been watching various news and talk shows the past week. The one thing I have taken away from this is that the journalists and pundits discussing events and there is an air of being clueless as to what the movement is and what the people "want". Then it sort of hit me. The people who are reporting on these events have a total disconnect to what these people are going through. Most of them are Ivy league graduates,pulling in a seven figure income, and come from upper income or affluent families. They have no idea what it is like to live paycheck to paycheck or to really struggle. They are mystified to this movement as they cannot relate to its issues.
The real problem is, the upper classes, the class that runs the country, is totally disconnected from the common people. They do not understand the concept of financially living on the edge. This is going to make it very difficult to get these concepts across to the people on Wall street and the media, because they are for all intents and purposes, disconnected from the common people. And I do not even think its that malicious. Its circumstance.
You don't see the people who pick your fruits and vegetables, make your cell phones, do all the countless menial tasks that create the things you buy or the food you eat. You simply don't see or associate with these people. Many of these people live in extreme poverty and can barely survive. You personally don't wish them ill will, they just don't figure into your life, They don't exist in your world.
There is a class disconnect in our society, some of it may be malicious and predatory, but some of it is not, and some of it just results from the way the society is structured. We may live in the information age but we live for the most part in a very isolating society. Most people don't know their neighbors. Most people do not engage in conversation frequently with strangers. I think this is one of the things that has fostered the mindset of every man for himself. and "F" you, I got mine.
And the top one percent is perhaps the most isolated group. They live in secure gated neighborhoods, they take private jets, they don't mix with the general population, and vise versa. So you have two groups who have had almost no real contact and preconceived dismissive perceptions of each other. That is the real problem here. The rich do not see the poor as human beings and the poor do not see the rich as human as well.
I am not sure how protesting is going to break through this, unless the two groups begin to perceive each other as human. Also I think there is a tendency to humanize the people in your own socioeconomic group and to dehumanize the "other". The protesters are doing this by protesting against "wall Street" and the corporations. The rich on the other hand perceive the protesters as losers and dead beats. Neither side perceives the other as human. Something has to break though this for things to change. It is all a problem of perception. Changing perception is the only thing that will change things.

Dude!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you need paragraphs... what a wall of text..

reply to post by openminded2011


Yeah. America has castles and walls.

People have agreed to separate.

The obstacle is breaking the programming and learning to be human again.

We are the livestock of the plantation owners.

I agree with many of the things you say, but I don't understand the steps you take to reach your conclusion.

Originally posted by openminded2011
The real problem is, the upper classes, the class that runs the country, is totally disconnected from the common people. . . . They do not understand the concept of financially living on the edge. And I do not even think its that malicious. Its circumstance.

A bit of an overgeneralization, don't you think? Obama, Perry, and Cain all talk about their humble beginnings. Hey, even the fairly famous Rush Limbaugh started off as a small town DJ.

And the top one percent is perhaps the most isolated group. . . . So you have two groups who have had almost no real contact and preconceived dismissive perceptions of each other. That is the real problem here. The rich do not see the poor as human beings and the poor do not see the rich as human as well.

I have some difficulty here. You seem to be saying that the two groups are equally isolated and equally dismissive of the other. I don't know. "Eat the Rich" signs do break down the isolation, but only to stick threats in the face of the other group.

Also I think there is a tendency to humanize the people in your own socioeconomic group and to dehumanize the "other". The protesters are doing this by protesting against "wall Street" and the corporations. The rich on the other hand perceive the protesters as losers and dead beats. Neither side perceives the other as human. Something has to break though this for things to change. It is all a problem of perception. Changing perception is the only thing that will change things.

But again, it is not equal. You point out that the rich don't think about the poor, but the poor think about the rich and call them evil and criminals who should be shot. It looks like the first move towards reaching mutual understanding is with the poor. Unless, of course, the movement doesn't want understanding between the two groups (which I now think is the case).

reply to post by openminded2011


Wow you have hit upon one of the greatest problems in society, it's dehumanization. In my opinion that happens because if you perceive those that you consider enemies as human, then you need to offer them compassion. If you can offer them compassion then it derails your perception of them as an enemy.

If you can make them seem less than human then it is easy to demonize them.

Great post snf

reply to post by charles1952


Yes there are many signs of open hostility towards the rich right now. That tends to happen when you have millions of people unemployed, foreclosed upon, and without any sense of hope, while a small subset of the population lives in almost unimaginable lavish wealth. I disagree that the hostility is flowing in one direction though. The actions of the bankers, corporatists and their minions towards the poor is anything but civil right now.

Dear openminded2011,

Thank you for your kind response. I hope you don't mind if I poke at this issue a little longer.

You spoke about the bankers, corporatists, and minion's actions being anything but civil. Are they doing something wrong, like theft, fraud, violence, or something else that could be punished under our laws? Or are they failing to do something right, like cutting executive salaries, raising wages, etc.?

Also, and I don't mean to give offense, are the protesters the unemployed, or are they speaking for the unemployed?

And finally, while the rich should be careful not to fall into the sin of greed, shouldn't the poor avoid the sins of jealously, envy, and hate? How do we bring both groups to "repentance?"

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by charles1952


I think both groups fall under the shortcomings and flaws of human nature. I do believe that the solution is NOT violence, or even revolution. The solution as hard as it may be, is for all human beings on this planet to perceive all other human beings on this planet as other human beings and not as lesser or greater beings. The solution is acceptance and compassion. Neither of these groups has any towards the other and I do not see as of yet how that is going to change. I do believe ALL human beings have at least some desire to do the right thing. The problem arises when they shut their compassion off by dismissing the other as a fascist or a peasant. Both groups share similar attributes in that they perceive their adversary as less than human.

reply to post by openminded2011

Dear openminded2011,

I'm thinking about the necessity for eachside to see the other differently, as humans. This would require outside influence because it doesn't seem to be coming from within the groups.

Could that understanding and kindness come from politics? No, that's too divisive a tool. Music and the arts? Maybe, but it seems like it would take too long and is too diffuse in its effect.

Let me suggest something that will get me condemned here on ATS, religion. Bishops, Rabbis, I don't know who all would be involved, but who else speaks brotherhood? Who else could talk to both groups and the American people at the same time?

Anyway, toss it around in your head, let me know what you think.

With respect,
Charles1952