I had been deceived - My visit to an OWS protest

So many here are missing the real "issue" at issue, and the reason for the protests. The main stream corporate media is trying to spin the mass of protesters as " jealous" of those that have and freeloaders and leeches....but that is not what I have seen at all. What most people in the protests are angry about is the massive TRYANNY afoot in every nook and cranny of their society. The corruption and violations of their God given and Constitutional rights also seems to be mentioned often as well. The mass corporate media is going to lose this spin cycle because of the internet, unless the psychopaths pull the plug on it too soon, but if they do, I think these tyrannical creatures running the show will be put on a spit over very hot coals, after all they have been "begging" for a lashing for decades now. Maybe they will finally get their wish.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by ParkerCramer

 

And no I DO NOT ACCEPT NOTIONS OF LEFTIST COLLECTIVIST IDEOLOGY. It seems everyone who is for leftism and collectivism hide behind the moniker of being "against the left/right paradigm" all while supporting leftist ideology.

No thanks.

LOL you sound just like the marxist wannabe-extremists who bitched and moaned at me for hours because they couldn't accept that I was apolitical. Change the words"leftist" to "rightist" and "leftism" to "rightism" in your quote and you're a dead ringer for a marxist.

Of course, if you think that way that's your prerogative and nothing I can say will make you rethink it, so I'm pointing this out for the benefit of those here who have evolved past the left/right "control or be controlled" paradigm.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux

I cannot say this often enough: Protest is really just a limp wristed way of admitting helplessness. The most annoying thing about this protest is the large number of people (claiming to represent 99% of the population) insisting they are really mad as hell with the 1% and then expecting...nay, demanding, the 1% do something about it. Pffffffft. What childishness is this?

The same 'childishness' that brought about the American Revolutionary protests that eventually led to the end of the first (British controlled) Feudalist system.

Now whose side would you have been on? King George it looks like, from what you wrote. And that limp wristed Thomas Jefferson et al would have just been 'childish whiners'.. right?

Uh Huh

reply to post by Misoir


You were deceived long before you thought you were deceived. If you have any question about why these OWS are so pissed off just read

Too Big To Jail?

www.rollingstone.com...

Not a single executive who ran the companies that cooked up and cashed in on the phony financial boom — an industrywide scam that involved the mass sale of mismarked, fraudulent mortgage-backed securities — has ever been convicted. Their names by now are familiar to even the most casual Middle American news consumer: companies like AIG, Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers, JP Morgan Chase, Bank of America and Morgan Stanley. Most of these firms were directly involved in elaborate fraud and theft. Lehman Brothers hid billions in loans from its investors. Bank of America lied about billions in bonuses. Goldman Sachs failed to tell clients how it put together the born-to-lose toxic mortgage deals it was selling

And see

Invasion of the Home Snatchers

www.rollingstone.com...

the state of Florida had created a special super-high-speed housing court with a specific mandate to rubber-stamp the legally dicey foreclosures by corporate mortgage pushers like Deutsche Bank and JP Morgan Chase. This "rocket docket," as it is called in town
....
Patti Parker, a local attorney in Jacksonville, tells of a woman whose home was seized by Deutsche Bank two days before Christmas. Months later, Deutsche came back and admitted that they had made a mistake: They had repossessed the wrong property. In another case that made headlines in Orlando, an agent for JP Morgan mistakenly broke into a woman's house that wasn't even in foreclosure and tried to change the locks. Terrified, the woman locked herself in her bathroom and called 911. But in a profound expression of the state's reflexive willingness to side with the bad guys, the police made no arrest in the case. Breaking and entering is not a crime, apparently, when it's authorized by a bank.
...
Add into the equation the fact that some of these big banks were simultaneously betting big money against these mortgages — Goldman Sachs being the prime example — and you can see that there were heavy incentives across the board to push anyone in trouble over the cliff.
.
That's why one banker CEO after another keeps going on TV to explain that despite their own deceptive loans and fraudulent paperwork, the real problem is these deadbeat homeowners who won't pay their #ing bills. And that's why most people in this country are so ready to buy that explanation. Because in America, it's far more shameful to owe money than it is to steal it.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

Oh come on, your'e saying you are against protest and that it's the wrong way to go about it? Just think about what has happenned here. The protests started in one country and spread to another, then another, then another and so forth. Whether you agreed with the overthrow of numerous dictaters in the middle east, protest DOES make one hell of a difference, as well as convincing the "powers that be" it also converts people's frame of mind for how to live life, (in this case I think for the good) And you don't have to be at the protest yourself to change either

Remember the important thing is that peoples voices are being heard

Originally posted by Misoir
This morning I decided to take some of my free time and went down to the ‘Occupy’ in my town. There I was skepticism in hand and pessimism of the people participating. For weeks the Occupy Wall Street movement has been growing, now it is not only in New York City but all across America and spreading across the world. Can you believe that Americans started protesting then people around the world took notice?

Anyway as I ventured into the crowd of differing faces something struck me immediately. There were no drum circle hippies, tie dye pot hits, barefoot guitarists, face painting stands, orgies, or even any real hostility between participants. As I wandered through the crowd I listened to the chatter of college kids about the high cost of tuition or to my satisfaction, Ron Paul and ending the Fed, to talk of the two party duopoly and its control over us all. I did not see these numerous hippies that were told to me on the news, there were no people waving socialist flags/banners, none of this was there. Sure there were a few people talking about bringing down capitalism but it was not like they dominated the crowd.

There was a nice older man there in a wheel chair that asked what brought me to the protest, I told him that I was skeptical of OWS and just wanted to see exactly what goes on at one of the protests. He told me that there was nothing left for him just sitting at home, the government has repeatedly denied him Social Security Disability even after the documentation by his doctor of his serious seizure problems (forgot the name of the disease/disorder). At the same time he said that his neighbor is receiving government assistance but is perfectly healthy, the man just complains about his knee, anxiety, and anger issues.

A few other people talked briefly to me but I left the protest about two hours after visiting. I left embarrassed and rather ashamed, to be honest. All this time I had been calling them welfare-addicts, hand-out lovers, lazy bums, socialist/communists, and all the names under the rainbow. But when I left it gave me an entirely new opinion of them. Sure there are a few nuts there, aren’t there nuts everywhere? Point is the crowd was overwhelmingly civil and while most were left-oriented there was still a large segment who was End the Fed types.

My conservative friends do not listen to what they say on TV or in conservative online media both mainstream and alternative. The protesters, at least the ones in my city, were very much different from what I had expected and what the conservative news outlets had said. Just as you would tell a liberal to visit a Tea Party rally to understand who they are and what they believe, you should do the same with OWS.

This does not mean that I am entirely a OWS backer, rather now I do not have a negative view of the movement, but am still very conservative and not exactly a protest type of person. Some in the crowd still deserve criticism because they are a bit excessive but the media intentionally picks these people and pretends like they represent everyone there. It reminds me of how the media jumped on any ignorant Tea Party protesters waving a sign with misspelled letters and tried to act like that is what the Tea Party was made up of. Neither is true, do not trust that media. If they show an interview of a OWS’er turn off the TV, it is not worth rotting your brain with.

edit on 10/15/2011 by Misoir because: (no reason given)

I'm glad you did. I did that yesterday as well. There are a lot of different people, but they all realize that the system is broken. Its pretty weird how a lot of people here at ATS (even some Ron Paul supporters) are so negative about the OWS. They're ready to "hunker down" with they're weapons and survival food to fight the dirty commies, the horde of Soros/Van Jones mind controlled robots. Well nothing is going to change their minds and that is the real shame. If these people really cared about what happens, they would go down and talk to the OWS protestors, share their ideas with them and listen to the OWS protestors and find out what it is they are looking for. The sharing of ideas is a good thing. I guess the age old technique of divide and conquer still works...

Originally posted by mclmm

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by ParkerCramer

 

And no I DO NOT ACCEPT NOTIONS OF LEFTIST COLLECTIVIST IDEOLOGY. It seems everyone who is for leftism and collectivism hide behind the moniker of being "against the left/right paradigm" all while supporting leftist ideology.

No thanks.

LOL you sound just like the marxist wannabe-extremists who bitched and moaned at me for hours because they couldn't accept that I was apolitical. Change the words"leftist" to "rightist" and "leftism" to "rightism" in your quote and you're a dead ringer for a marxist.

Of course, if you think that way that's your prerogative and nothing I can say will make you rethink it, so I'm pointing this out for the benefit of those here who have evolved past the left/right "control or be controlled" paradigm.

Nice post. I wonder why so many people have trouble getting out of that left-right, liberal-conservative, democrat-republican communist-capitalist mind set? Like good ol' GW said, if you're not with us, you're for the terrorists. I'm glad not everyone is so myopic. Its what still gives me hope. A star for you!!

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

 

People even in the ATS forum are starting to call people fascist when they don't support the OWS protest. I asked for a definition of fascism and provided one myself but all I got in response was whining about how much I protest socialism. I guess more people read my stuff than I thought.

And people are calling OWS supporters Communists and/or Socialists. IMO these are just labels people love to throw around. It would be nice to focus on problems and solutions and not labels.

reply to post by Stratus9

The same 'childishness' that brought about the American Revolutionary protests that eventually led to the end of the first (British controlled) Feudalist system.

Now whose side would you have been on? King George it looks like, from what you wrote. And that limp wristed Thomas Jefferson et al would have just been 'childish whiners'.. right? Uh Huh

Your profound ignorance of history is less than impressive. The "American Revolutionary protests"? The so called "protests" that led up the American Revolution for Independence was a negotiation process between Kind George and the Continental Congress that had formed to handle these negotiations.

The link is there for you to follow and then use that to follow more links so you can save yourself future embarrassment. The Founding Fathers were not a bunch of limp wristed protestors. They were men of action who had educations far beyond what is passing for education today. They understood what needed to be done, and at no point did they even consider just having a spontaneous "leaderless" sit in to "wake up" all the loyalists.

Thomas Paine's Common Sense was the "wake up" call the colonists need it, and if you ever bothered to read that book you would see how far removed the American Revolutionaries were from these "Occupy" people.

Edit to Add:

The "protest" that sparked the Revolution of 1776 was Boston Tea Party

"Occupy Wall Street" "Boston Tea Party" "Occupy Wall Street" "Boston Tea Party" Are you seeing the similarities? I'm not!

Originally posted by Cribblet
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

 

Oh come on, your'e saying you are against protest and that it's the wrong way to go about it? Just think about what has happenned here. The protests started in one country and spread to another, then another, then another and so forth. Whether you agreed with the overthrow of numerous dictaters in the middle east, protest DOES make one hell of a difference, as well as convincing the "powers that be" it also converts people's frame of mind for how to live life, (in this case I think for the good) And you don't have to be at the protest yourself to change either

Remember the important thing is that peoples voices are being heard

Your arrogant lecturing of "how to live life" and your insipid and smug implications that somehow the protestors have done more for the cause of freedom than I and others in this site who have tirelessly fought with their terrible swift pens, many of whom have suffered many forms of government criminality outside of this virtual world in the real world because they've had the temerity to stand up to tyranny, not just protest it, but confront it, only brings a feeling of bitter disgust towards this "Occupy" movement I had not felt until reading your dreck.

Originally posted by projectvxn
I'm reading through the OWS organizer e-mails right now.

People quoting Che and telling others not to denounce any violence or property damage that may occur. People advocating lying to the media or simply being obtuse. They were setting up training courses for civil disobedience.

I'm going to be very frank with you ....

If I were you, I'd hope they do get some change ... because it's not a real revolution, and they're just kids with no real organisation.

If nothing happens ... the time will come, when WE (as in US the people) do it ... and when WE do it ... it'll be WAR ...

know what I mean?

reply to post by JibbyJedi


Thats not very nice is it? So there are those that abuse the system, but how do you propose you compensate those who really do need help and cant work through disability? those that have fought for your freedom as you yanks like to call it?after all it is the good old USA that likes to ram Faux freedom and democracy down everyones neck, whilst creeping up from behind to steal oil and whatever else of value.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Glad you figured out ( or saw I suppose) that we are ALL part of the 99%. There's no such thing as liberal or conservative within the OWS movement.

The media has been lying to you, just like they always have been. The anti OWS movement was born of fear and uncertainty.

Beautifully put and I believe, absolutely the truth as well.

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade

Originally posted by tothetenthpower

Let's hope they continue to gain momentum and this leads to real change.

Careful what you wish for... You may not like it.

Everyone who voted for "change" can tell you how well that has worked out for them.

You're pathetic, beating that same old worn out drum. We DEMAND change and we will damn sure get it. You can thank us later.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by Sunlionspirit

 

Oh brother! Did I hit a landmine with you....you sure exploded into little bits everywhere. You must be a big Union person. Demonizing the company. I would like to bring business back home, and people like you are bent on forcing more business abroad with taxes and regulations.

You can just jolly well take your own advice.

yes I did explode because angry like hell .... but they did clean up the whole sheeeeeet and my vomit because of your censoring my liberty of vomiting against your ideas ! ok ? go walk and look around ! I hope you loose a lot of money into the game of robbery. Bizzss.
we in Europ are not little sheep like in USA, nothing personal but you have to know !
we have no 25 guns on our shoulder but 25 brown beers on our table
remember the vikings ?

Originally posted by DieBravely

You're pathetic, beating that same old worn out drum. We DEMAND change and we will damn sure get it. You can thank us later.

I admire your confidence

But, I can't waste an opportunity to warn you, that you are going to be very disappointed in the end.

You can DEMAND whatever you want, but demands without leverage are certain to fail.

What position are you collectively in to demand anything?

Who is compelled to give in to your demands?

What power do you have over government to demand anything?

I have a suggestion, go to the ballot boxes in the next elections and vote, see how much influence your numbers actually have to bring about change.

Good luck.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by NoHierarchy

 

You don't tell me what to believe and how to think.

Misoir has his opinion I have mine.

After this, and the other post you made telling me to shut up, it seems you have a real problem with others expressing how they see things.

You're going to be in for a hell of a disappointment when I don't comport to your capricious and childish outbursts demanding that I think exactly like you .

edit on 17-10-2011 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-10-2011 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)

It's funny how you don't view your own comments as outbursts... but they are. While mine are more crass, they are honest. Yours are more offensive in their inaccuracy and demonization of people who legitimately question the status quo and want a better world.

I'm not asking you to think as I do, except in the way of SCIENTIFIC and CRITICAL THINKING.
In other words... before you demonize something you don't understand, RESEARCH IT. Don't go on a propaganda campaign against people who are OBVIOUSLY challenging the establishment and are composed of many very intelligent/lower-class people. I honestly fear your effect on people who don't yet understand OWS and see your comments and actually consider them. While equal consideration is all good and well, don't think I'm not going to challenge you aggressively and proportionately to how false/damaging your assertions are.

I made sure to flag this thread.
I'm really glad to see that people are realizing what this movement really is

* The media is lying and we are being deceived.

* The protest leaders are lying and we are being deceived
(Anyone, here, know who those OWS leaders are? This is NOT "grass roots," nor was the "Tea Party").

* The politicians are lying and we are being deceived.

There is a very dangerous "We."

The media, the protest leaders and the politicians want a "them verses us" to stifle that dangerous "We."

There will be no rebellion (and certainly no revolution) until WE act.

When was the last time WE had a candidate who was truly revolutionary and united us?

WE want revolutionary changes-- some to embrace old ideas and ideals, and some to embrace new ones; but instead WE get TOLD what our issues are-- so that we do not unite and so that we do not state our own issues.

As long as WE allow ourselves to be divided, WE, the dangerous people, are impotent.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


You, obviously, have no idea what you're talking about. Your post is just one long rant full of speculation and generalization. The OWS movement is not, as you say, asking for the 1% to give them everything. They are demanding that the 1% not be allowed to buy our government, creating laws that benefit the wealthy and penalize average-to-poor Americans. You seem to think that these people could just go out and start a business, and if that's your assertion, then you either haven't been paying attention to the economy that we live in, don't understand the problems these people face, or both. At any rate, you are ignorant.

reply to post by mydarlia


Darlia, the reason those guys responded to you like that is because right now there isn't a clear "agenda" of the OWS movement. The majority of OWS participants understand that it may take a LONG time to see any real, lasting change happen. Also, they know that if they published a set list of "demands", political candidates would use those demands to try and harness the growing power of the movement (as we just saw with President Obama). Having politicians supporting the movement isn't a bad thing, but right now the movement is about getting people together, representing a large visual statement, and letting average people discuss our current political and economic systems. Over time, these discussions will lead to consensus among the participants and that's when they will be able to clearly state goals that define what the majority wants, while at the same time, allowing for compromise when these goals aren't inclusive of everyone's best interests (the interests of the minorities). So it will come in due time. I hope that helps. Asking questions is always a good thing.