I had been deceived - My visit to an OWS protest

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


Well then you better start to get political.

Laws don't change with chanting and hopes.


But you know what the odd thing is, you will have more success with lowering the corporate tax code and eliminating all loopholes...than trying to keep the rate the same and eliminating loopholes. In todays global economy...nothing is stoping corporations from move it's entire operation to another country with lower taxes.

But that is just my opinion...I believe that will raise more revenue.

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
reply to post by jonnywhite

 

The person who make $60k a year pays about $25k in taxes while the dude who makes $100M a year pays barely pays $10M a year in taxes and all they gotta do is put $10M in a tax shelter such as a charity that benefits none and his tax rate becomes $0! How is this fair? Either that or send that $100M to a tax shelter in The Cayman Islands and the US will never see a cent of that.

edit on 16-10-2011 by TheImmaculateD1 because: (no reason given)

Ummm...no...that isn't how "tax shelters" work.

If you put 10M in a "tax shelter", then that man's taxable income becomes 90M...and he still pays a lot of taxes.

There is less of a problem of rich individuals avoiding taxes than corporations...it isn't as easy for the individual...and the things they do are a lot of times illegal. Not the legal loopholes corporations use.

reply to post by jonnywhite


What I had explained coupled with what Nor has just said adding in the intentional stagnation and total grind-to-a-halt action currently imposed upon the global economy today is the sole reason.

The intentional, targeted, directed takedown and destruction of The USA is occurring now and most people are too incompetent to see that the rug that they lie on is quickly being taken from under them. This is a root of #OWS/OccupyEverything and it's subsidiaries and associated occupations and groups gripe and grievances.

Economical Equality! The restoration of all overtuned legislation that led to the near total deregulation of not only the domestic economy but the global economy as well.

reply to post by AndrewTB


Good for you, man. The media marginalizes the middle ground and all we see on the news are the extremes. With the Tea Party, they showed the racists and bigots and with the OWS guys, they only show the kids who aren't 100% clear on why they are there.

Showing normal Tea Party and OWS folks just doesn't do much for ratings. I blame the media for starting it but I blame the gullible people on ATS for helping to spread it.

reply to post by NorEaster

A majority does. In polls, it ranges from over 65% to nearly 80%.

I would love to see those polls. The only poll I can find has a "favorable opinion" of 54%...that is of the movement...not their individual messages.

I approve of the "movement"...but not of their message or goals.


The rest of your message sounds like sour grapes...many companies fail. If you go into the market thinking you are going to take on the big dogs...and you get torn apart in the process...that is just bad business decision rather than anything being unfair.


It sounds like you are saying you are made at the 1% because you weren't successful enough to make it to the 1%. You hate big corporations because your little company couldn't become one.

It sounds a bit hypocritical.

Originally posted by Evolutionsend
reply to post by OutKast Searcher

 

I think their numbers and growth represent well, just how many people want change. For every person that shows up, there's probably another one that's either too busy, or too scared to show up. I think you fail to see the minority that your group represents.

You don't even have an organized opposition to OWS, just a handful of people on a forum. Unimpressive argument.

edit on 16-10-2011 by Evolutionsend because: (no reason given)

Would you care to tell me what "my group" is?

I am not for opposing OWS...I'm for focusing it into a strong political movement. Not a random hippy party.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


When your tax rate is only 10% simply put that amount in a shelter and that reclassifies that as a tax free charitable donation which means you've effectively made $90M scott free!

Organization is fast becoming a political powerhouse. It is still on it's rise.

You people who are complaining about the possibility of things getting violent ....... I have a question for you.

Exactly how far do you think the American Revolution would have gotten if there had been no bloodshed?

Do you think the King of England would have changed his ways with peaceful protests and politely written requests?

I think not.

We the people have tried politely asking and writing our politicians. We have voted new people into office who have promised to change things but then did the same old, same old.

The politicians will not listen to the people until the politicians fear for their very lives.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


I think that is what others are interested in. They're not a hippy movement. They're people just like you and I. Look at this thread's flags and stars. More than I've seen around here in a good while. Much more than the hate threads about OWS.

If you and I are in agreement about something, I had better get to work digging a shelter, and packing my supplies. The end of the world is coming!

reply to post by Common Scarecrow


This option has not officially been taken off the table but has been tabled for now to see what this produces. We are in The Awakening Phase now. Next major move comes sometime soon as it's still being worked out and arraigned and details should become known shortly.

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
reply to post by jonnywhite

 

The person who make $60k a year pays about $25k in taxes while the dude who makes $100M a year pays barely pays $10M a year in taxes and all they gotta do is put $10M in a tax shelter such as a charity that benefits none and his tax rate becomes $0! How is this fair? Either that or send that $100M to a tax shelter in The Cayman Islands and the US will never see a cent of that.

edit on 16-10-2011 by TheImmaculateD1 because: (no reason given)

Always good to see you, Immaculated. Actually the person that makes $60k a year pays, without deductions, around $12k in taxes. His tax bracket is 25%, but it's progressive so he's taxed first at 10%, then at 15%, then finally at 25%. The person making $100M a year pays, again without deductions, about $25m in taxes, because of the progressive tax system. But both can take deductions reducing their tax burden. The person making $60k could conceivably come out paying nothing, and often does.

The rich are paying what the federal government lets them get away with. We don't have to raise the tax bracket on the rich, all we have to do is cut out, or cap, deductions. Don't forget: while the rich own most of the wealth, they also pay a larger portion of the tax burden. There are two sides to everything.

/TOA

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

Originally posted by Evolutionsend
reply to post by OutKast Searcher

 

I think their numbers and growth represent well, just how many people want change. For every person that shows up, there's probably another one that's either too busy, or too scared to show up. I think you fail to see the minority that your group represents.

You don't even have an organized opposition to OWS, just a handful of people on a forum. Unimpressive argument.

edit on 16-10-2011 by Evolutionsend because: (no reason given)

Would you care to tell me what "my group" is?

I am not for opposing OWS...I'm for focusing it into a strong political movement. Not a random hippy party.

What do you want to see this political movement achieve? Some of the planks of their platform are "pay my mortgage" and "pay my tuition" and "pay for my healthcare". Are you solvent enough to do that? I'm not, and according to this movement 99% of us aren't. I barely tread water paying for my own mortgage, tuition, and health care.

/TOA

Originally posted by Cuervo
reply to post by AndrewTB

 

Good for you, man. The media marginalizes the middle ground and all we see on the news are the extremes. With the Tea Party, they showed the racists and bigots and with the OWS guys, they only show the kids who aren't 100% clear on why they are there.

Showing normal Tea Party and OWS folks just doesn't do much for ratings. I blame the media for starting it but I blame the gullible people on ATS for helping to spread it.

Interestingly, the news outlets that show the bigots and rednecks of the TEA Party are mostly the left-leaning MSM. But I've seen the "you should pay for my mistakes" protesters on every news outlet. I tend to believe that most of what I've seen of the OWS movement is made up of that person, since the wider net that has been cast finds them easily.

/TOA

Here is the first protest march in Springfield Mo......I did see an "End the Fed" sign....which is good!!

I do know they are collaborating with my occupy group here in Joplin which does have some moveon.org influence.......

Small town Mid-West USA.............

reply to post by The Old American


Then why should anyone pay those things for old people? My own grandmother is a good example. She has $160,000, in the bank, and she wants food stamps because living costs too much. A lot of the elderly do this, and take advantage of the things they're offered. I think a better way to go about the problem is to lower the cost of living overall, lower tuition, and lower the mortgages. The profit margin in this country has gotten too high. Bad business models and other crap spewed from very greedy people caused this years ago. That high profit margin only exists for a few select people, while the rest of the country can't seem to save any money, in order to accomplish anything in the business sector. They start out, in the hole, only to be told that they do not qualify for a job, only an internship, or a very low paying job, in their field. Is it any wonder that younger Americans are sick of it?

Originally posted by nyk537
reply to post by mastahunta

 

It is believable because I witnessed it firsthand at protests in two out of the three cities I visited here in Kentucky.

I also witnessed people calling for the executions of the top 1% unless they agreed to hand their money over.

Thank you for posting this first hand witness. It really does sound like the French Revolution doesn't it? It was quite violent with be-headings in the guillotine and mobs of people storming the Bastille. (hmmm another source has it at 80,000 not 1000, maybe it was a typo on wikipedia)


I can't wait to see if they will overthrow King Soros....

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There will be more,

Diogenes the 99

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

Which ones are the people that count their money in millions, when compared to the person counting loose change for food each week?

I was just researching the French Revolution, and accidentally ran across this little piece of information...

In the meeting of the Estates General, delegates of the Third Estate complained that they represented 97 percent of the nation's population and should have more influence. They rebelled, breaking away and creating their own convention, which they called the "National Assembly." It was a challenge to the other two orders and to the authority of the king. The National Assembly was presuming to speak for the nation as a whole.

www.fsmitha.com...


Some of the emails and dialogue from the OWS organizers and protesters talk about the "general assembly". I think I see some similarities with the French Revolution.

In Paris, people had been blaming the old order, hoarders and greedy merchants or the rich in general for their troubles. The people of Paris welcomed news of the National Assembly's creation, and they hoped that it would end their hardship and hunger.

See the parallels?

Originally posted by Evolutionsend
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

Which ones are the people that count their money in millions, when compared to the person counting loose change for food each week?

Just more blaming the wealthy....French Revolution here we come....