I had been deceived - My visit to an OWS protest

reply to post by Misoir


I have a theory. I could certainly prove to be wrong, but this is the scariest movie I've ever seen (oh, wait... it's not a movie. It's REAL LIFE) and anything could happen.

My theory/hope is that everyone comes to the conclusion similar to the one that I have and just... turns away. Stops doing anything but what they want to do, says damn-the-future-and-my-401K, starts helping those who can't repay them even when no one is watching, stops acting for their own self-preservation and starts acting toward their own self-happiness, renounces materialism no matter how long or painful the process, and that the social constructions worth protesting are starved for attention and money and die a natural death.

I wonder if it can happen organically inside of a protest movement. In the meantime, I attempt to wean myself from the culture that has created most of my insecurities. It's not easy but the lightness of being I experience from each milestone has been worth it so far.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


I'm sorry you see it that way.
Yes, there's a whole bunch of dissatisfied people out there, and with good reason.
It is happening first in America because conditions are worse in America.
In Europe we still have good healthcare & pension schemes, and plenty of work, if you are prepared to change.
The worse it gets, the angrier the crowds, it won't take much for things to turn ugly, i am amazed that people up to now have been able to control their anger, good for them!
It would not surprise me if they try 'plan B'--to put 'agents provocateurs' among the crowd to start the violence, like they did at the G20 summit.
The answer? Zeitgeist.

reply to post by Misoir


It's amazing when ignorant people decide to get out and get a look at what's going on for themselves. Don't let the news paint a picture that you should be painting yourself.

To the OP,

Star and flag for you. See what happens when you actually go down there and start chatting with people.

To Neo, Vxn, Horus,

Why are y'all even wasting your energy? By attacking this group means you are a puppet of the banks.

THE OFFICIAL STANCE OF THE #OOCUPYEVERYTHING - OCCUPY TOGETHER - #OCCUPYWALLSTREET MOVEMENTS AND ALL ASSOCIATED MARCHES & OCCUPATIONS THROUGHOUT THE PLANET CURRENTLY :

This group wants absolutely nothing to do with the corrupt 2 party oligarchy as both have been bought and paid by the banks, The Federal Reserve and Wall Street and does not need nor require money from 1%'rs and to say anything otherwise is a major dis service to this group and movement as a whole as we see people like Soros as being apart of the problem and does not endorse millionaires or billionaires. No corporate dollars are welcomed and if one were to attempt to finance this movement it would be rejected and returned with a note saying "No sale!"!

To believe anything else means you are being seriously deceived and tricked and said source should not be trusted or taken seriously and if it does not come from the aforementioned it is not to be taken as the official stance. No General Assembly in any group throughout the planet will amend this ever!

All are welcomed from all faiths, ethnic groups, political persuasions, LBGTI, animal and kid friendly as we will not discriminate, we will be friendly to all. Illicit narcotics (marijuana to meth while all scrips prescribed to a fellow protester are obviously allowed) and liquor (all forms) use are banned and will get someone expelled and turned over to law enforcement. Come as you are! Remember, there is no member of the 1% that is on this website which means we are all The 99%!

reply to post by shogu666


That has nothing to do with it.

They signed a contract when they took out a student loan that was a promise to pay that money back. It doesn't matter who the money came from or who had the authority to lend it. When you agree to do something....you are expected (and should have) to do it.

Trying to find loopholes to get out of contracts are we? Sounds a lot like the big evil businesses these people are protesting against doesn't it.

Ironic much?

reply to post by mastahunta


It is believable because I witnessed it firsthand at protests in two out of the three cities I visited here in Kentucky.

I also witnessed people calling for the executions of the top 1% unless they agreed to hand their money over.

reply to post by Misoir


I had a similar experience in the Midwest city I live in. I'm an Internet activist, and decided yesterday to do the street thing for a change, since it was a global event. The ages ranged from high school to senior citizens, and the bulk of the crowd was made up of people who were new to the effort due to the fact that they have full time jobs and can't engage in protests during the week, but are grateful for the people who are available to man the protest site on their behalf, and on behalf of all of us who struggle to make ends meet in spite of the bizarrely obvious inequity that we see around us every single day.

These weren't professional agitators, or hippies, or even college kids. In fact, the cars that drove by and flipped the group off were generally packed with college kids coming from the Homecoming game that was letting out down at the stadium located a 1/4 mile from the park (if the banners and school jackets were any indication). The people in the park, gearing up for the march, were adults, and from many walks of life. I stayed in the back of the procession to make sure that the several wheelchaired folks never felt as if the march was leaving them behind, and to ensure their safety crossing the streets. We didn't have a city permit to march, but the cops were like guardian angels for us, and their smiles let us know that they were there to protect us and our right to peaceful demonstration - and we obeyed all traffic lights, with the front of the march waiting for the half that was dealing with the fact that traffic lights generally change before such a long line of people can make it across the street intact.

The drivers of the cars were smiling at me, directly, as I stood in the center of the street and help up my "Corporations Are Not People" sign to make the wheelchaired folks feel protected as they crossed in the crosswalks, and I thanked them for their graciousness if it took just a little bit longer for any one of them to manage the crossing under their own power. I even had a man in a business suit personally thank me, and shake my hand, for "marching for him", since he simply couldn't due to his own local profile and what marching would do to his own career.

It was an amazing experience, and I've never felt as appreciated by an entire city of traffic, and cops, before. And this was a 2nd tier city in the Midwest. One that everyone would immediately recognize as being an important, and famously conservative, city. In my view, what I saw yesterday was extremely telling, concerning the general opinion of this movement by the majority of people in this nation.

reply to post by nyk537


With no jobs available to service and to satisfy said debt makes it impossible to pay back said debt. One of the occupiers at my local one (Jersey City Journal Square) has had to go back to school to prevent the bills from the last college they attended from coming because he can't find a job in the field that they got their Associates in.

reply to post by nyk537


Wishing for death to the 1% is not a stated goal of the group as incitement of violence should not be tolerated anywhere as what we seek is fairness. Anyone can make as much as they want as long as they pay their fair share. We aren't asking for a 80% income tax be levied. We are simply asking that the rich pay as much or a little more in taxes then the poor, to provide jobs in America.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


And?

The fact that you aren't in the position to pay the loan back doesn't negate the fact that you agreed to pay it back when you borrowed the money.

It's the same with all contracts. Your car company or mortgage lender or whoever doesn't let you out of a contract just because you are having a hard time.

If things are that bad then lenders offer deferments and other ways to postpone or reduce payments until you get back on your feet.

I think many people are missing the part about loans being a signed contract. They don't just hand out money for free you know.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


amen.
this is not about USA. it's about the whole world. this system doesn't work! it leaves poor people homeless and makes the powerful untouchable. it selfpreserves the class system. it destroys our freedom. NOT JUST IN THE USA, it's a worldwide problem thanks to globalization.
i want democracy, REAL DEMOCRACY WHERE MY VOICE IS HEARD!!

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


You don't even know what you are talking about do you.

The top 10% of wage-earners in this country are paying over 70% of the total taxbill. How is that not fair enough?

The bottom 50% are only paying around 3% (or much lower) of the total income tax bill. How is that not fair enough?

If anything, calling for fairness amongst tax payers would be the bottom 50% paying MORE taxes, and the top 1% paying LESS.

Tax Foundation Stats from 2007

All people need to realize is this:

Over the past 30 years, 96% of the income growth went to the top 10%, while the income of the bottom 90% actually DECREASED!!

LINK

reply to post by nyk537


Average tax rate of the rich is somewhere between 15 - 20% and it obviously isn't going to Governments because they use tax havens like charities that benefit no one, Cayman Islands and Swiss bank accounts. There is this one address in The Cayman Islands that is hq to about 5,000 companies that are used as a tax shelter.

news.bbc.co.uk...

If they were paying their fair share then all police departments, fire departments, civil service workers would all be gainfully employed and not have to worry about cutting this or cutting that.

Updated reports on how 47% of US homes pay no taxes whatsoever.
www.nytimes.com...

Another graph and chart :
sociology.ucsc.edu...

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


15-20%? Did you look at the data I just provided.

It's also different by states as well. I know people that live in New York that lose around 30-35 cents out of every dollar they make to taxes.

Again...this isn't corporations fault. It's governments.

Go march in Washington if you want to make a difference.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


This is a very viable way to reduce hold off your loan debt. Simply go back to school and all your repayment on debt is post-poned. I might have to stay in school for life because of this. Its a really sad thing.

Thanks for sharing your observations and experience. This is the sort of news and reporting I'm looking for when I need to find out what's going on. Excellent work.

Originally posted by nyk537
reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

 

And?

The fact that you aren't in the position to pay the loan back doesn't negate the fact that you agreed to pay it back when you borrowed the money.

It's the same with all contracts. Your car company or mortgage lender or whoever doesn't let you out of a contract just because you are having a hard time.

If things are that bad then lenders offer deferments and other ways to postpone or reduce payments until you get back on your feet.

I think many people are missing the part about loans being a signed contract. They don't just hand out money for free you know.

You seem to think that the inequities that are driving this movement are based solely on student loans. In the march I attended, no one was even thinking about student loans. They were angry about having saved the banking system with hundreds of billions of their tax dollars, only to have those same banks sit on nearly 3 trillion in loan capital, and make speculation investments for huge profits for themselves alone, while our entire economy collapses from lack of small and medium business loans to the job creators that need them.

Maybe it started with college kids, but that's changed, and the rest of the country is picking up the picket signs against the same predators that some of the original protesters were targeting. After all, those corporations have sinned against nearly all of us in one way or another, and that's probably why the MSM is having such a hard time defining the core message of this movement. When disease have metastasized to this level, it's as if it exists beyond any ability to define it with talking points. It's literally everywhere all at once.

reply to post by Misoir


Congratulations, you're a sheep no more! Feels good, doesn't it?

This is a good example of just how anxious so many Americans are to stand up, under any banner, and say this # has to go. The people running around here bashing OWS are only hurting the spirit of things. Either that or providing more motivation for the good people to get out there and occupy.

Originally posted by nyk537
reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

 

15-20%? Did you look at the data I just provided.

It's also different by states as well. I know people that live in New York that lose around 30-35 cents out of every dollar they make to taxes.

Again...this isn't corporations fault. It's governments.

Go march in Washington if you want to make a difference.

Protesting the government is now useless as they are mere sock puppets of big corporations. All it accomplishes is that they'll replace one sock puppet with another. The SYSTEM needs to be fixed, and protesting in Washington won't accomplish this. You need to highlight who's really controlling things, and who's really in power...and it's NOT the people anymore, it's big business and Wall Street