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Originally posted by Xcathdra
The people protesting who have been peaceful are still protesting. The ones who have blocked roadways / business entrances are the ones being challeneged by the Police, and of those, the ones who disregard the instructions to move to a different area (to stop blocking the road /businesses are arrested.
I dont completely agree with the rest of the list though. Private Business can make any policy they want. If the policy is in conflict with a law there is a court case possible. Using private business and the 4th amendment for a minute. If you are on private property, say you walked into Radioshack, and you have a brief case with you, there is nothing illegal about an employee apporaching you and requesting to search your case.
You can refuse, and chances are you would be asked to leave the store.
Going through airport security is the same. Its voluntary. You can choose any number of alternate forms of travel.
You are correct that we signed the CAT. However any foreign treaty signed is restricted by a Supreme Court ruling (Head Money case). Any foreign treaty we sign becomes a part of the Federal Body of Law. It can be modified by Congress, ruled on by the courts, and can be challenged by citizens if they are affected by it.
Hamdi / Hamden V. rumsfeld is an example of that when the case was brought against Rumsfeld. Water boarding, while outlawed under the CAT, was ruled allowable under US law. Secondly, it doesnt deal with US citizens. Its where the military commissions act come into play.
Out of curiosity how many allied pows during WW1 / WW2 were charged with a crime during the war? A lot of those people on both sides were detained until they were liberated by advancing military units, prisoner exchange etc.
Originally posted by Xcathdra
You guys are though. The question I asked was not to highlight issues with rights. It was to highlight the level of the lack of knowledge people ahve about their rights, where they are at, what they mean, how they are applied in addition to how the government works at all levels and a citizens responsibility in all of it.
I could ask the question whats 2 + 2, and we would get peple answering that question. Its entirely possible though that the question is not designed for people who know the answer, but rather those who dont know the answer.
As I said, any person can recite information however that doesnt do any good when they dont understand the info itself.
Originally posted by Xcathdra
I have seen this comment used quite a bit by people lately and I am curious.
Exactly what rights have American citizens lost?
When did they lose those rights?
Im not looking for a fight or anything, but am curious as to what people are seeing in regards to this topic.edit on 15-10-2011 by Xcathdra because: spelling
Originally posted by AceWombat04
I'm not talking about violent or obstructionist protestors. I'm talking about organized picketers who, in and around political rallies, speeches, and the like, are corralled into "free speech zones" .....snip to free up text space
Originally posted by AceWombat04
All of that is true, except - starting now - for the last part. They are now initiating the use of TSA checkpoints and searches on highways, buses, and rail lines. So now, potentially at least, we have agents of United States Government Agencies conducting searches and checks of people without a warrant and, at least in my opinion, without probable cause. Now, don't get me wrong. If someone does something that an agent of the TSA, DHS, or a local PD thinks gives them reasonable suspicion and they can prove that, then fine. But just performing random stops and checking people, or, moreover, checking everyone that passes through a checkpoint? I don't think so.
Originally posted by AceWombat04
And now the alternative means of travel may become subject to this as well. So in my view we are looking at potential violations of not only the fourth, but also the fourteenth amendment.
Originally posted by AceWombat04
In my opinion, congress making something law does not render it Constitutional or prevent it from being an abridgement of inalienable human rights. Freedom from torture is an inalienable human right in my opinion, regardless of enemy status or citizenship.
Originally posted by AceWombat04
The ends do not justify the means, nor does the past justify the present actions being taken in my opinion.
Originally posted by AceWombat04
Ultimately, this is all my personal opinion,....human snip
Originally posted by ownbestenemy
Yes, but you ignore your own attempts to invoke what you interpret as Rights. Once engaged, you start running interference and throw up straw-men.
Originally posted by ownbestenemy
Good lord, I have never seen anyone so contradictory; within a single paragraph! ...snipped for text
Originally posted by ownbestenemy
I have figured your style out. You engage and attack (for lack of a better word) when posters present anemic reasons and substance (according to your standards). But as soon as posters start questioning your premise, your thought process and your ability to comprehend its a different game. That is when the interference and straw-men start popping up.
Originally posted by ownbestenemy
Sorry for taking up the time to argue and debate just what the Constitution deals with, how Rights do not have to be listed within the Bill of Rights to be considered a Right (Ninth Amendment), and for trying not only to engage you, but the other posters here. You want to sit here and admonish and wage your finger at other posters for their lack of knowledge in regards to Government and the Constitutions of the Federal and numerous states? Take a look in the mirror.
Originally posted by ownbestenemy
Why don't you drop your shell game or just come out and say that you believe that the only things we should be allowed to do are that which the Government has granted? I don't think I am far off from that statement either. That has been your one consistent premise throughout the whole of this thread.
Originally posted by ownbestenemy
You're right. Careful where you step cause there is plenty of bs lying around here. ATS's desire to obtain this great sense of "decorum" leaves me to use far less colorful words.
Through the enactment of the USA PATRIOT Act and subsequent executive directives and regulations, essential rights and freedoms that were once guaranteed to all individuals have been substantially degraded. Many Americans still do not realize the significance of what we have lost. The resulting expansion of government powers, and the erosion of 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th and 14th Amendment rights and freedoms have transformed the United States.
1st AMENDMENT FREEDOM OF SPEECH
• The Patriot Act broadly expands the official definition of terrorism, so that many domestic groups that engage in nonviolent civil disobedience could very well find themselves labeled as terrorists.
• The Government may now prosecute librarians or keepers of any other records if they reveal that the government requested information on their clients or members in the course of an investigation. It has become a crime for these individuals to try to safeguard your privacy or to tell you that you are under investigation.
1st AMENDMENT FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION
• Government agents may now monitor the First Amendment protected activities of religious and political institutions, and then infiltrate these groups with no suspicion of criminal activity. This is a return to domestic spying on law-abiding religious and political groups.
• You may now be the subject of a government investigation simply because of the political, activist, or advocacy groups you are involved in, or the statements you make within these groups.
1st AMENDMENT RIGHT TO ACCESS GOVERNMENT INFORMATION
• A U.S. Department of Justice directive actively encourages federal, state, and local officials to resist and/or limit access to government records through Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests.
• The Government has conducted immigration hearings in secret behind closed doors. Such proceedings were once open to the public. Hundreds, if not thousands, of immigrants have already been deported in secret.
Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
Come on! Two words: Patriot Act.
Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
What about our right to privacy and against the illegal search and seizures people go through everyday in America. Those just started in the last few years and you and I both know they are not necessary. Also there are probably a million more I would have to research having to do with people not being allowed to make their own decisions.
Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
Here is a really good video (it's from a hacker supporting OWS but bear with it, he makes good points).
Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
We are in a police and nanny state. It's illegal for us to make decisions for ourselves. Whether it be drinking unpasteurized milk or using drugs. The definition of happiness in the pursuit of happiness is severely restricted and needlessly so.
Originally posted by Xcathdra
Question for those who say they are losing rights in the US, page 1
I have seen this comment used quite a bit by people lately and I am curious.
Exactly what rights have American citizens lost?
When did they lose those rights?
Im not looking for a fight or anything, but am curious as to what people are seeing in regards to this topic.edit on 15-10-2011 by Xcathdra because: spelling
Your actions of getting your ticket, and moving from the ticket counter, to checked bag area, to TSA checkpoint, to boarding the aricraft, is all voluntary. If at any point you chose not to comply, you are free to leave the airport and arrange other methods of travel.
Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
Come on! Two words: Patriot Act.
Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
1st AMENDMENT FREEDOM OF SPEECH
• The Patriot Act broadly expands the official definition of terrorism, so that many domestic groups that engage in nonviolent civil disobedience could very well find themselves labeled as terrorists.
Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
• The Government may now prosecute librarians or keepers of any other records if they reveal that the government requested information on their clients or members in the course of an investigation. It has become a crime for these individuals to try to safeguard your privacy or to tell you that you are under investigation.
Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
1st AMENDMENT FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION
• Government agents may now monitor the First Amendment protected activities of religious and political institutions, and then infiltrate these groups with no suspicion of criminal activity. This is a return to domestic spying on law-abiding religious and political groups.
Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
• You may now be the subject of a government investigation simply because of the political, activist, or advocacy groups you are involved in, or the statements you make within these groups.
Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
1st AMENDMENT RIGHT TO ACCESS GOVERNMENT INFORMATION
• A U.S. Department of Justice directive actively encourages federal, state, and local officials to resist and/or limit access to government records through Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests.
Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
• The Government has conducted immigration hearings in secret behind closed doors. Such proceedings were once open to the public. Hundreds, if not thousands, of immigrants have already been deported in secret.
Originally posted by backinblack
Originally posted by Xcathdra
Question for those who say they are losing rights in the US, page 1
I have seen this comment used quite a bit by people lately and I am curious.
Exactly what rights have American citizens lost?
When did they lose those rights?
Im not looking for a fight or anything, but am curious as to what people are seeing in regards to this topic.edit on 15-10-2011 by Xcathdra because: spelling
This is your entire thread title and OP..
Now please tell me WHY you are saying the thread purpose is NOT about actual right?
Why you are not willing to tell me what rights you think we actually have?
Why you are insulting anyone that actually tries to discuss YOUR original OP?
Don't get me wrong, I understand what you are NOW trying to discuss but it was clearly NOT the original intent of the thread..
That's why people are asking what they are and it's plain weird, when you look at the OP, that you are telling them they don't understand the intent of the thread.
Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by Xcathdra
Your actions of getting your ticket, and moving from the ticket counter, to checked bag area, to TSA checkpoint, to boarding the aricraft, is all voluntary. If at any point you chose not to comply, you are free to leave the airport and arrange other methods of travel.
Maybe, but not quite the same at bus and truck stops where TSA are now getting involved..
I don't believe anyone gave consent to being searched on the highway...
The TSA cannot stop non commercial vehicles.
Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by Xcathdra
Just because something is written into law does NOT make it legal/illegal..
Many laws have been overturned and shown to be illegal..
Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by Xcathdra
The TSA cannot stop non commercial vehicles.
Buses are commercial vehicles but the people on board are private citizens..
Sorry but it's looking like a police state to me..