Question for those who say they are losing rights in the US, page 3

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reply posted on 15-10-2011 @ 11:29 AM by Xcathdra

Originally posted by DerekJR321
The Patriot Act expanded the definition of "terrorism" so now pretty much anyone who engages in civil disobedience can be labeled a terrorist.

What right have you lost?

Originally posted by DerekJR321
The government can now arrest and prosecute people who keep information on you, if they reveal that the government requested this information. IE: Let's say the FBI wants to investigate you, and asks your ISP for records. If your ISP then goes and tells you this, they are now breaking the law. Why? They are just trying to protect your right to privacy.

What right have you lost?

Originally posted by DerekJR321
Government agents may now monitor the First Amendment protected activities of religious and political institutions, and then infiltrate those organizations at will. Meaning they need no suspicion of criminal activity or wrong doing.

Which has been around since before we told the Brits to go away. The other term is called voluntary contact.
What rights have you lost?

Originally posted by DerekJR321
You may now be subject to a government investigation simply because of your political or religious views.

What right have you lost?

Originally posted by DerekJR321
Law Enforcement agencies may now conduct searches and wiretaps of your home or office without showing probable cause.

This is not even close to being truthful or accurate in any sense of the imagination. Proivide your source that says this.

Originally posted by DerekJR321
Law Enforcement may now demand personal records held by any source, including your doctor, employer, accountant or library.

What right was violated / taken form you?

Originally posted by DerekJR321
The Patriot Act directs judges to consent to secret searches based only on Government assertion that a "significant need" is given, related to terrorism.

See above answer on the requirements for a warrant and check up on FISA.

Originally posted by DerekJR321
Americans can now be jailed without a formal charge and without the right to confront a witness or view evidence against them.

again not even close to being accurate. Source

Originally posted by DerekJR321
American citizens are now held in military jails without charge and without a clear path of appeal for their indefinite incarceration.

American citizens held in military jails are mebers of the military. They are not subject to civil criminal law, but the UCMJ and know full well how it works when they go into the military.
No loss of individual rights.

Originally posted by DerekJR321
I could continue to go on, but I will provide you with a link to a PDF which has many more. Most of the above I paraphrased from the linked PDF.

Actually shoot me the link Im curious as to whats on it.

Originally posted by DerekJR321
NY Civil Liberties Union

nvm thanks

Originally posted by DerekJR321
PS- Here is an off the top example. How about your right to protest? Why are people in NY being pepper sprayed in the face because they are off the side walk? And I know someone will chime in and say "well they were blocking the way for others". I've been there. No... they are not. Everyone has been peaceful. Anytime someone was coming through, EVERYONE moved aside. So that is nonsense. The police, or should I say, the white shirts are just flexing their muscles. Cursing at everyone, pushing, shoving. Basically showing that they are "tough guys". Which infringes on my right to protest. So yeah...

Because people dont understand what their rights are or how they work. Youhave freedom of speech and assembly up to the point that interferes with another person rights.

Gathering on a city street is blocking a public right of way. Since the right of way is blocked, you are not infringing on the rights of people who arent involved in the protest to freely move down that road. Refusal to move or obey a lawful command can result in a citation or arrest, depending. Passive resistence is fine and usually pepper spray or pepper spray swabs are used to clear those people out.

Would you prefer the police use batons?

However, what individual rights are taken from you?

reply posted on 15-10-2011 @ 11:29 AM by popsmayhem

Originally posted by ParkerCramer

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

You arent understanding the topic at all.

People bitch that they have had rights taken away from them. My question is what rights have been taken from you?

well hello Xcathdra...............up to your old tricks again??

Let me see if I can make this easy.................WHY DON'T YOU LIST THE RIGHTS YOU SAY WE ARE ENTITLED TOO............................this should make it simpler for all.

Now, no deflection..............just simply list our rights, then maybe we can have something to talk about.

Parker
MTUBY

# Amendments Proposal date Enactment date Full text
1st Protects the freedom of religion, speech, and the press, as well as the right to assemble and petition the government September 25, 1789 December 15, 1791 Full text
2nd Protects the right to bear arms September 25, 1789 December 15, 1791 Full text
3rd Prohibits the forced quartering of soldiers out of war time September 25, 1789 December 15, 1791 Full text
4th Prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures and sets out requirements for search warrants based on probable cause September 25, 1789 December 15, 1791 Full text
5th Sets out rules for indictment by grand jury and eminent domain, protects the right to due process, and prohibits self-incrimination and double jeopardy September 25, 1789 December 15, 1791 Full text
6th Protects the right to have a fair and speedy public trial by jury, including the rights to be notified of the accusations, to confront the accuser, to obtain witnesses and to retain counsel September 25, 1789 December 15, 1791 Full text
7th Provides for the right to trial by jury in certain civil cases, according to common law September 25, 1789 December 15, 1791 Full text
8th Prohibits excessive fines and excessive bail, as well as cruel and unusual punishment September 25, 1789 December 15, 1791 Full text
9th Asserts the existence of unenumerated rights retained by the people September 25, 1789 December 15, 1791 Full text
10th Limits the powers of the federal government to those delegated to it by the Constitution September 25, 1789 December 15, 1791 Full text
11th Immunity of states from suits from out-of-state citizens and foreigners not living within the state borders. Lays the foundation for sovereign immunity March 4, 1794 February 7, 1795 Full text
12th Revises presidential election procedures December 9, 1803 June 15, 1804 Full text
13th Abolishes slavery and involuntary servitude, except as punishment for a crime January 31, 1865 December 6, 1865 Full text
14th Defines citizenship, contains the Privileges or Immunities Clause, the Due Process Clause, the Equal Protection Clause, and deals with post-Civil War issues June 13, 1866 July 9, 1868 Full text
15th Prohibits the denial of suffrage based on race, color, or previous condition of servitude February 26, 1869 February 3, 1870 Full text
16th Allows the federal government to collect income tax July 12, 1909 February 3, 1913 Full text
17th Establishes the direct election of United States Senators by popular vote May 13, 1912 April 8, 1913 Full text
18th Establishes Prohibition of alcohol (Repealed by Twenty-first Amendment) December 18, 1917 January 16, 1919 Full text
19th Establishes women's suffrage June 4, 1919 August 18, 1920 Full text
20th Fixes the dates of term commencements for Congress (January 3) and the President (January 20); known as the "lame duck amendment" March 2, 1932 January 23, 1933 Full text
21st Repeals the Eighteenth Amendment February 20, 1933 December 5, 1933 Full text
22nd Limits the president to two terms, or a maximum of 10 years (i.e., if a Vice President serves not more than one half of a President's term, he or she can be elected to a further two terms) March 24, 1947 February 27, 1951 Full text
23rd Provides for representation of Washington, D.C. in the Electoral College June 16, 1960 March 29, 1961 Full text
24th Prohibits the revocation of voting rights due to the non-payment of poll taxes September 14, 1962 January 23, 1964 Full text
25th Codifies the Tyler Precedent; defines the process of presidential succession July 6, 1965 February 10, 1967 Full text
26th Establishes the official voting age to be 18 years old March 23, 1971 July 1, 1971 Full text
27th Prevents laws affecting Congressional salary from taking effect until the beginning of the next session of Congress September 25, 1789 May 5 or 7, 1992[1]
en.wikipedia.org...

there you go.

You have the right to Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
www.law.cornell.edu...
The original bill of rights
First Amendment [Religion, Speech, Press, Assembly, Petition (1791)] (see annotations)
Second Amendment [Right to Bear Arms (1791)] (see annotations)
Third Amendment [Quartering of Troops (1791)] (see annotations)
Fourth Amendment [Search and Seizure (1791)] (see annotations)
Fifth Amendment [Grand Jury, Double Jeopardy, Self-Incrimination, Due Process (1791)] (see annotations)
Sixth Amendment [Criminal Prosecutions - Jury Trial, Right to Confront and to Counsel (1791)] (see annotations)
Seventh Amendment [Common Law Suits - Jury Trial (1791)] (see annotations)
Eighth Amendment [Excess Bail or Fines, Cruel and Unusual Punishment (1791)] (see annotations)
Ninth Amendment [Non-Enumerated Rights (1791)] (see annotations)
Tenth Amendment [Rights Reserved to States (1791)] (see annotations)

edit on 15-10-2011 by popsmayhem because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 15-10-2011 @ 11:32 AM by Xcathdra

Originally posted by Autodidactic
There's like 20 threads on this already, if the OP didn't want to start a fight why didn't he just go read or post on one of those?

Because there arent 20 threads on this topic.

Its an easy question - people in these forums constantly state the government is taking rights away.

My question is what rights are being taken away.

So far, people have a list of issues, but none are falling into the category of having rights taken away. My point is for people to learn how their government works, at ALL levels.

If you notice, a lot of the issues being brought up are directed at the government. The issue is, is its directed at the government. We have different levels of government, and they have their own areas of responsibility, yet peope dont grasp that concept.

They claim rights are being taken, yet they cant say what those rights are.

reply posted on 15-10-2011 @ 11:32 AM by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

You arent understanding the topic at all.

People bitch that they have had rights taken away from them. My question is what rights have been taken from you?

Okay, I'll play the "lawyer ball" version of the rights game.

I'll even go so far as to assume the Bill of Rights is some almighty sacred parchment that has not been defiled.

Simple answer, every right not expressly granted to me by the Constitution of the United States.

reply posted on 15-10-2011 @ 11:33 AM by cryptographrix

A lawyer walks into a thread...

No, seriously - this whole thread is flamebait.

Going by legal definitions alone, nobody has lost ANY rights, but that's the point - diluting them down doesn't count as "loss" and that's what this # is using as justification for their "what rights have you lost" thread.

And yes, they are a # for it.

Because even they have to get their anus probed at the airport, and that's something they're sure didn't change about them - it was a decision at the policy-making level of government.

reply posted on 15-10-2011 @ 11:33 AM by Xcathdra

Originally posted by xaphoo1971
I don't know about loss of rights but they sure are making a lot of restrictions and it's getting damed hard to enjoy these rights if you ask me...

You mean you are making a lot of restrictions.

If you dont like the restrictions, then why do you vote the person back in who represents your area?

Do you participate in government at all levels?
Do you vote?
Do you call your rep when something comes up that you dont like?

What rights have those restrictions stripped form you?

reply posted on 15-10-2011 @ 11:34 AM by RSF77

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Its an easy question - people in these forums constantly state the government is taking rights away.

My question is what rights are being taken away.

Well your #ing question is being answered, pay attention.

edit on 15-10-2011 by RSF77 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 15-10-2011 @ 11:34 AM by Xcathdra

Originally posted by ParkerCramer

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

You arent understanding the topic at all.

People bitch that they have had rights taken away from them. My question is what rights have been taken from you?

well hello Xcathdra...............up to your old tricks again??

Let me see if I can make this easy.................WHY DON'T YOU LIST THE RIGHTS YOU SAY WE ARE ENTITLED TOO............................this should make it simpler for all.

Now, no deflection..............just simply list our rights, then maybe we can have something to talk about.

Parker
MTUBY

Please go back and read my op in its entirety.

My question is, people complaint he government is stripping their rights from them. I want them to list those rights they say have been stripped.

reply posted on 15-10-2011 @ 11:34 AM by kennylee

reply to post by Xcathdra

This article sums it all up.
www.patrioticspace.com...
and this
www.nationalreview.com...
and this article
endoftheamericandream.com...

People who say we haven't lost any freedoms are too young to know what freedoms we did have.

reply posted on 15-10-2011 @ 11:35 AM by popsmayhem

Originally posted by RSF77

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Its an easy question - people in these forums constantly state the government is taking rights away.

My question is what rights are being taken away.

Well you #ing question is being answered, pay attention.

Obviously you have NOT stated any rights lost.

Just a bunch of whining babies
whining because someone is better off then them is easy
Getting out and making something of yourself is hard..

Anyone can hold a sign and scream RIGHTS VIOLATION

reply posted on 15-10-2011 @ 11:35 AM by Xcathdra

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by Xcathdra

So you believe being able to grow organic food isn't a right, being able to repair ones home isn't a right, and being able to trade freely shouldn't be individual rights?

And here's another one for you. It's illegal in many places to feed homeless people. It's literally illegal to share food with people who need it the most. They must depend on Government sanctioned food houses which aren't open very often and are typically in a bad part of the neighborhood. I will give my food to any damn Human on the Earth and I don't need the big brothers approval.
edit on 15-10-2011 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)

All good points, but my question is whatg rights have the government taken from you?

If people are going to make that claim, they should be able to state with certainty what rights wrere removed an when it happened.

reply posted on 15-10-2011 @ 11:36 AM by RSF77

Originally posted by popsmayhem

Obviously you have NOT stated any rights lost.

Just a bunch of whining babies
whining because someone is better off then them is easy
Getting out and making something of yourself is hard..

Anyone can hold a sign and scream RIGHTS VIOLATION

I am not a wall st protester, whining baby or unemployed.

I wish you had said this to my face.

reply posted on 15-10-2011 @ 11:37 AM by popsmayhem

www.law.cornell.edu...
The original bill of rights
First Amendment [Religion, Speech, Press, Assembly, Petition (1791)] (see annotations)
Second Amendment [Right to Bear Arms (1791)] (see annotations)
Third Amendment [Quartering of Troops (1791)] (see annotations)
Fourth Amendment [Search and Seizure (1791)] (see annotations)
Fifth Amendment [Grand Jury, Double Jeopardy, Self-Incrimination, Due Process (1791)] (see annotations)
Sixth Amendment [Criminal Prosecutions - Jury Trial, Right to Confront and to Counsel (1791)] (see annotations)
Seventh Amendment [Common Law Suits - Jury Trial (1791)] (see annotations)
Eighth Amendment [Excess Bail or Fines, Cruel and Unusual Punishment (1791)] (see annotations)
Ninth Amendment [Non-Enumerated Rights (1791)] (see annotations)
Tenth Amendment [Rights Reserved to States (1791)] (see annotations)

Tell Xcath what on this list of rights have you lost??

Maybe Xcath should of posted these in the OP.

You have not lost ANY rights in the BILL OF RIGHTS..

If you could state what rights you have lost please do..

HERE IS THE LIST!!!

edit on 15-10-2011 by popsmayhem because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 15-10-2011 @ 11:38 AM by Frogs

Originally posted by Xcathdra

My question to the people who continually state we are losing our rights is what individual rights have you lost.

Hmmmm... Xcathdra, if I may interject an observation and suggestion here...

Thus far this thread has largely been the following...
You ask people what rights they have lost..
The poster responds with some variation of, "I have lost X"
You respond with some variation of, "No you have not, X is not a right."

The issue is you didn't state in your OP what definition and list of "rights" you were using as the basis of your arguments. Are they the ones in the Constitution? Some state Constitutions? A body of law? A religious text? What definition of "rights" are you using? What is the list of them according to your definition?

Without stating that you will simply get people listing "rights" according to their definition and list - and you will state its not a right because it doesn't fit your list and definition.

So, while I could say I generally don't feel as free as I did say, 20 years ago. I cannot engage in any debate with you on what rights I have or haven't lost until you provide some structure for the discussion.

What definition of "rights" are you using and what is the list of rights you are using? Without that we'll never get past, "I've lost X" and "No you haven't".

edit on 15-10-2011 by Frogs because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 15-10-2011 @ 11:39 AM by Swills

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by morder1
I used to like playing poker online for a few bucks(5-10 at a time)

But now I cant... FBI shut down all the poker sites 5-6 months back...

I lost the money I did have invested, well I didnt lose it, it was stolen from me and never given back... nor was my player points that I earned

Again, what right have you lost?

Lost the right to play poker anytime he wanted via the internet. Now was this right written by our forefathers? No in so many words but I'm sure if one looked hard enough they ca find a nice, neat lil category this could fall under.

When people complain about their rights being taken away, first lets understand most of Americans don't fully know their rights & don't read up on the Constitution/Bill of Rights, & so on. We learned about them in grade school but most of us just moved on with our lives. Now what people are complaining about essentially is the size and misuse of the US Gov't. It is getting bigger, expanding, and in its wake people are feeling smothered and abused. Money is misspent, taxes raised, inflation goes up, more wars/operation/conflicts started, Patriot Act revised and extended, Homeland Security, FEMA, DEA/FBI once again busting MMJ patients and dispensaries, and of course issues with law enforcement in general, & much more. Give the Gov't an inch and they'll take whatever they want.

reply posted on 15-10-2011 @ 11:39 AM by CherubBaby

reply to post by Xcathdra

You have to be kidding me. Your an American and your having to ask what rights we have and are loosing? Cmon.. You mean to tell me you don't think the patriot act is a violation of a persons right to privacey i.e. illegal search and seizure? I could and would go on but I won't dignify the question with more examples if your an American and need someone to explain it to you. Hey folks just more of the Dis-info police to get people distracted. I have to laugh at the desperation of it all..

edit on 15-10-2011 by CherubBaby because: edit

reply posted on 15-10-2011 @ 11:40 AM by Xcathdra

reply to post by RSF77

An excellent post..

Thank you for your service.

As far as what my opinion is, since your the first one to ask me for that and where I stand on this, is the people have failed the government.

Im not defending the government or its actions. What I AM doing is trying to get people to understand what they state. If a person doesnt take an intrest in all levels of government and participate, they dont know what their rights are. The longer people complain, yet refuse to learn and participate, the bigger this problem is going to get.

The simple fact people are listing issues that arent guaranteed rights prooves my point that there is a massive disconnect between what the people expect and what they actually get. People have been listing of issues, yet none of those issues are guaranteed to anyone in this country.

How can you condemn a government for actions when you cant even explain how it works in the first place?

I am all for voting every single person out of office and returning to common sense. The American people became so lazy and apathetic, they quit caring what the government did and just rubberstamped at elections.

In order to effect fundamental change, especially when people want a return to a more strict view of the Constitution, that they should at least understand the document itself first?

reply posted on 15-10-2011 @ 11:41 AM by Xcathdra

Originally posted by Swills
Patriot Act comes to mind. That bill is definitely not in favor of American rights.

Fair enough...

What rights did it strip though?

reply posted on 15-10-2011 @ 11:42 AM by popsmayhem

Originally posted by CherubBaby
reply to post by Xcathdra

You have to be kidding me. Your an American and your having to ask what rights we have and are loosing? Cmon.. You mean to tell me you don't think the patriot act is a violation of a persons right to privacey i.e. illegal search and seizure? I could and would go on but I won't dignify the question with more examples if your an American and need someone to explain it to you.

The original bill of rights
First Amendment [Religion, Speech, Press, Assembly, Petition (1791)] (see annotations)
Second Amendment [Right to Bear Arms (1791)] (see annotations)
Third Amendment [Quartering of Troops (1791)] (see annotations)
Fourth Amendment [Search and Seizure (1791)] (see annotations)
Fifth Amendment [Grand Jury, Double Jeopardy, Self-Incrimination, Due Process (1791)] (see annotations)
Sixth Amendment [Criminal Prosecutions - Jury Trial, Right to Confront and to Counsel (1791)] (see annotations)
Seventh Amendment [Common Law Suits - Jury Trial (1791)] (see annotations)
Eighth Amendment [Excess Bail or Fines, Cruel and Unusual Punishment (1791)] (see annotations)
Ninth Amendment [Non-Enumerated Rights (1791)] (see annotations)
Tenth Amendment [Rights Reserved to States (1791)] (see annotations)

When have you been the subject of the patriot act?

You still have to have a warrant to search!

What are you talking about, re-read the list..

There is NOT RIGHT TO *healthcare* on there.

reply posted on 15-10-2011 @ 11:43 AM by popsmayhem

edit on 15-10-2011 by popsmayhem because: (no reason given)