Question for those who say they are losing rights in the US

Originally posted by JiggyPotamus
Constitutional rights. Every single time the government does something in spite of the constitution, the people lose rights. Just being told we have these rights is enough for some people, but for those who are awake it is obvious that that is a lie, and it is evident every single time the constitution is trampled on.

Right... we have had this comment made numerous times, but the question holds - what rights have you lost.

reply to post by boredguy316



All legitimate complaints, but not one of those listed has affected any of your rights in any way shape or form.

Originally posted by ur86d
If i live in any state like New Jersey , which is a may issue state...i have lost my 2nd Amendment right. Even though it appears you may be issued a permit to carry a weapon, in practice this is NOT the case...New Jersey rarely issues carry permits to citizens. The second amendment states we have the right to BEAR arms... BEAR does not mean simply own...BEAR means to be equiped with.. In states like New Jersey, if you leave your home you can not equip yourself with arms. Therefore their state gun control law is unconstitutional...and a loss of my rights.

The State of New jersey requires you to have an ID in order to purchase the weapon. How are they infringing on your right to bear arms?

secondly the may issue is for a CCW, not permit to purchase, and there is a difference.

reply to post by loveguy


Again all nice and what not, but what rights have been taken away.

reply to post by constantwonder


There is a difference between sustained and potential.

What the ACLU doesnt tell people is a person has to be affected by a law in order to challenege it in court (must have standing).

Which comes back to the question, what right is being taken away?

If we want to go farther you have posted on these forums - frrely
You have referenced ACLU info - freely
Your post suggests the fEderal Government is criminal because of the patriot act - freely
A legal group watches and challeneges these laws - freely

I think poeople seem to be confusing democracy and rights with utopia and socialism.

The first thing that comes to mind is the 4th amendment to the Bill of Rights, the one that protects us from unreasonable search and seizures. Indiana Supreme Court ruled that police may enter your home for ANY or NO reason at all if they so choose to. I would say that is a blatant loss of a right.

Loss of 4th Amendment Rights

Of course you think we have no right to anything except what is directly stated in the Constitution or Bill of Rights. I guess we have no right to eat? Or right to drink water? Or right to have sex? I guess according to you we have no rights except what the all mighty government tells us we can have. Pathetic.

Originally posted by GuyverUnit I
This thread is a fallacy.

Our rights as American citizens are INNUMERABLE.

The Ninth Amendment- The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Thus it is true that though a right of the people may not be enumerated in the Constitution, it still exists as a right not to be infringed upon.

If the citizenry of the U.S.A. feel a right is being infringed upon by their government, whether specified in any document or not... then IT IS!

Actually the thread is not, so please take some time to read through and see the argument being made.

Secondly, I will point out that even in your response, you are only looking at one level of government -0 The Federal.

As I have stated time and time again, we dont have on government. We have a Federal Government, State government and local governments.

Anytime something is done, even within a state, people throw a fit and start saying the government took away theirconstitutional rights.

My question was, and still is - how and which ones?

People have said freedom of speech, yet here they are, on this site, telling us their opinion and not holding back against the government. So apprently they didnt lose their 1st amendment - speech.

People say right to protest - Yet there they are, all over the country, protesting. People calim the police deploy pepper spray to put down the protests. Again, people see only what they want. Using New York as an example, since a few others brought it up, they claim the protesters who were pepper sprayed were being denied their right to protest - Yet there they are, still in numbers, in the same place, protesting.

People have a singular view on what they think they have a right to do and how it actually works.

Notice not one person who claims the government took their rights away will state that their actions actually infringe on the rights of the people who dont share their view.

People think they can close down a public street, and any attempt to stop them is the government taking a right away. They ignore the fact that when they shut down a poublic right away for protests, those individuals are actually taking the right of free assembly and movement away from the people who arent protesting.

So is the government taking away rights that people are still clearely exercising? Nope

People have not idea what their rights are, or how the government works. Any action taken against them that they dont understand, is perceived as illegal and having a right taken away.

They refuse to see the possibility that the police are protecting the rights of the people who arent protesting. Those rights are being infringed on by the protesters, not the police.

If people dont wake up and learn how their government works, at all levels, then yes, we will lose all we have. When people protest something and they arent knowledgable about it, then what exactly are they fixing?

You cant fix something when you dont know how it works.

Originally posted by Subjective Truth

Originally posted by Xcathdra
I have seen this comment used quite a bit by people lately and I am curious.

Exactly what rights have American citizens lost?
When did they lose those rights?

Im not looking for a fight or anything, but am curious as to what people are seeing in regards to this topic.

edit on 15-10-2011 by Xcathdra because: spelling

Right.. I have read it. Feel free to explain how it affects you as a citizen. Explain to us what right it takeas away from you.

while your at it please explain how a federal law has anything at all to do with local law enforcement.

Get back to me when you understand it.





Well I have a question for you have you read the patriot act? If not maybe you should instead of posting threads on ATS.

And once you have read the patriot act think to yourself has this taken away any of my rights?

( About the Patriot Act) Opponents of the law have criticized its authorization of indefinite detentions of immigrants; searches through which law enforcement officers search a home or business without the owner’s or the occupant’s permission or knowledge; the expanded use of National Security Letters, which allows the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) to search telephone, e-mail, and financial records without a court order, and the expanded access of law enforcement agencies to business records, including library and financial records. Since its passage, several legal challenges have been brought against the act, and Federal courts have ruled that a number of provisions are unconstitutional.

(Copied and pasted from wiki and of course I will link it)

How about those rights? And your original question by the way wasnt what rights have been taken away and have affected you. you just asked which rightswere being taken away. My right to have a conversation on the telephone without big brother listening in is constantly infringed. I cannot make a simple statement like "# Barack Obama, I wish someone would whack his ass" without the government suddenly deciding to monitor my call. And yet my right is to say whatever I want whenever I want.
Patriot Act Wiki

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by Areveli

 

You understand the question asked and the point of it.

Others do not.

If a person doesnt understand, how can they claim its broke?
If a person doesnt understand, how can they claim to have a fix for it?

Unfortunately in this area the simple "because I stayed at a holiday inn express" answer doesnt work. This thread was a simple exercise. People claim the government took something from them, and when asked, it turns out the government didnt take anything from them.

I see your point and having read some of your other arguments, I agree with you for the most part.

To somewhat answer both of your questions:

We live in a country that is about as backwards as it can get. We are taught so many lies and misunderstandings throughout our lives; that it becomes impossible to truly know anything.

Psychologically speaking, we are very malleable creatures. It is no wonder that individuals with the know-how, have been able to manipulate us to the degree that they have.

Playing Devil's advocate here:
You don't have to be aware of the legalities of freedom, to witness its demise.

[On a side note: Many Americans are dealing with severe distraction. Yes, there are the Football games and American Idol... but we also have personal health issues, an impending depression, War, and sick loved ones to care for... you shouldn't be so steadfast in your dismissal of their opinions.]

For some the wake up point has been the ever-encroaching US Police State... for others it is economic strife... and yet for others it has to do with personal choices.

Bare in mind that it is still illegal in certain parts of America to get a tattoo!

How can we be a truly FREE society and not be allowed to decorate our bodies as we see fit? [rhetorical]

The same applies for all kinds of Individual vs. The Majority type issues.

But to get back to your original post; the loss of Freedoms, anyway you slice it...SUCKS. Regardless whether you are aware... or not!

reply to post by Unknown Soldier


A coma.. No.

however there are plenty of other poeple in this thread who need to wake up.

the patriot Act has nothing to do with the TSA.

You are not forced to go through security.
you are not forced to fly..

If you were, then you would see a violation.

try this - Prior to 9/11 you were still required to go through security. Why was it not a rights infringment then? You could still be pulled out of line and groped as you call it.

Take it one step further. You can buy an airline ticket, go to the airport, go through all requires security, make it to the plane, start to board, and be stopped by an airline worker who tells you no, you arent going to be allowed to board the aircraft, and they will not let you fly on their airline.

What rights of yours were violated?

Since you and others are invoking the patriot act, please share with the rest of us which parts were stripped by the courts. Which parts were allowed to sunset, and which parts were changed to account for case law?

Surely you and the others know about this, since you seem to invoke the patriot act and nothing esle.

reply to post by Xcathdra


I think that smokers and the tobacco industry might have a thing or two to say.

reply to post by nightstalker78


Honestly thats exactly the divisive behavior our government wants and needs in order to further strip us of our rights. Just because our country is for the most part above par with other country's standard of freedoms doesnt make it ok for our government to systematically take rights away. And to stick your head in the sand and behave as if nothing is the matter is the most unpatriotic behavior I can think of. So maybe you should buy your own ticket out of our country.

Originally posted by Unvarnished
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

I feel like our rights to privacy have been lost, especially with the FBI agents all over place tapping our phones.

Law Enorcement is still required to obtain a warrant to tap a phone, contray to the fear mongers who state otherwise.

Question
- What makes you so important that the FBI needs to tap your phone?
- How do you know your phone is being tapped by the FBI?

How about the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness?
That only goes to those that have the funds to do it...otherwise you just be sure to go die in a ditch as far as the government is concerned...also you only have those rights if you want to work for them (labor) where is that in the constitution??? Does it say "you have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, but only if you're willing to slave for it"?

Uh...Nope.

Originally posted by UnholyBones
With each new law passed you lose a right and/or some freedom.
This is how I've looked at this issue and it usually holds up.

what laws have been passed that stripped any of your rights?

Federal or State?

examples

Originally posted by ldyserenity

Originally posted by Xcathdra
I have seen this comment used quite a bit by people lately and I am curious.

Exactly what rights have American citizens lost?
When did they lose those rights?

Im not looking for a fight or anything, but am curious as to what people are seeing in regards to this topic.

edit on 15-10-2011 by Xcathdra because: spelling

Right to privacy...via the Patriot Act...now no need for a warrant to tap your line, bug your house, video tape you home with hidden cameras etc.

You should read the patriot act, ALL of it, and you will see how wrong you are on what you posted.

As I have stated before, if people are going to say the government ook something from them (rights) dont you think its reasonable that people under stand the laws and government and how it works in the first place?

reply to post by Xcathdra


In two words--


Patriot Act

My right to financial freedom has been taken away by an unfair class system, greedy corporations, and the federal government which seems to think the corporations are the nation they serve. This right has been infringed on a state level by local government who have given my state an exorbant (sp) amount of debt which has raised the price of EVERYTHING. From milk to rent to school clothes for my kids.

reply to post by ltngbolt


Thank you for taking the time as well as the level of thought, you put in your response. I agree 100 percent with what you are saying.

People in this thread have gone out of their way to list what has "been taken away" yet reading the lists it causes one to wonder where they are coming from. The lists they are giving arent rights, so to speak.

My issue is just that = people are pissed and want change, and im all for that. However, what good is change when its coming from people who dont know how things work? As an example people limit themselves to just stating "the government" in their responses, ignoring the fact that there is the Federal and the State government.

They dont grasp the difference between them, and its very evident by the continual invocation of the patriot act. Even more evident is the rsponse to some of my posts. People get upset and perceive my response as being pro government, anti rights etc.

Even when a person is pointing out a flaw in their argument, they dont beleive it and attack the person.

Fundamentally the question is - How can poeople claim their rights are being taken when they have no idea what their rights are or how it works? How can these people claim the goernments actions are illegal, when they dont know how it works?

People are so angry, that they lash out at anything - including those who are trying to help.