Chemtrails - Failure of Proof (Proof of Failure)

Originally posted by Thermo Klein
and maybe ask yourself how bits of ICE (contrails) can meander and dissipate across the sky for FOUR HOURS without melting and subtly turn into a haze. Ice doesn't really behave that way - never has.

edit on 15-10-2011 by Thermo Klein because: (no reason given)

Clouds are, in fact, just bits of ICE which do hang around in the sky for hours, sometimes days. Of course, this is a grossly simplified picture, but it's your terminology, not mine. And it is well known that contrails can induce cirrus clouds.

Originally posted by dplum517
reply to post by Uncinus

 

Unicus, stop linking your crap black and white images and anecdotal stories as proof. They do NOT = PROOF that chemtrails don't exist. They don't even equal proof that persistent spreading contrails exist today.

You treat my stories with that same respect .....goes both ways.

Meteorology certainly teaches that contrails turns into clouds and haze

Since we love to get technical ..... your story did not say the word "haze"

Also, that story is just that..... a story ....of a supposed contrail that was 3 miles (not very long in the sky) and after 20 minutes mixed in with the current cirrus clouds in the area.

That story means nothing for our current argument.

edit on 17-10-2011 by dplum517 because: (no reason given)

Nobody can prove that chemtrails don't exist. It's impossible to prove a negative. All Uncinus did was provide solid evidence that contradicted a claim made earlier in this thread that it's impossible for contrails to form clouds, or to linger and persist.

Guess someone missed the belfort group report..

Originally posted by vasaga
Guess someone missed the belfort group report..

Oh none of us here missed it at all, we know it quite well

reply to post by firepilot


Yep - and it even gets 1 factual conclusion completely correct - the NATO refuelling fleet needs re-engining!

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by firepilot

 

Yep - and it even gets 1 factual conclusion completely correct - the NATO refuelling fleet needs re-engining!

I think most all of them are KC-135Rs and KC-10As. The KC-135A have been long retired or re-engined, and the E model is gone as of 2009. The Brits may still have some of their ancient refuelers though

As much as our resident chemmies bring up the Belfort Group and then deride the "Contrail Science" site, the Belfort Group actually uses Contrail Science as a reference, and they even mention how many chemtrail sites make completely false claims

reply to post by firepilot


This is what "Case Orange" says about contrailscience.com

Last but not least there are a number of websites that deny the existence of
'chemtrails' in a quite cynical but scientific way. An example of this is
contrailscience.com... Its Webmaster, known as 'Unicus',
does actually hide his real identity - adding fresh meat for the conspiracy theory
grinder that it might be a government agency. However it is significant that this
website deals with any of the websites mentioned above, reducing the
argumentation of 'chemtrail' protagonists to a piece of rubble

Case Orange can likewise be reduced to rubble. They make some terrible mistakes, like using the joke "chemtrail forecast" from Kevin Martin as if they were some kind of official maps (Page 61). They also link to a joke thread on a pilot discussion board as if it were serious. They also are the ones hiding their true identities, whereas I do not.

reply to post by Uncinus


Is your name not one this site? I am sure I have seen it there before and in my experience you never hide your name. Thats pretty pathetic.

Keep up the good work Mick.

reply to post by FreeSpeaker


Well to be fair, I don't think my name was on the site when they wrote that. I "came out" during the mystery missile kerfuffle.

Anyway, names are a distraction, I'm no expert, the facts stand for themselves, I just point at them.

Originally posted by firepilot


I think most all of them are KC-135Rs and KC-10As. The KC-135A have been long retired or re-engined, and the E model is gone as of 2009. The Brits may still have some of their ancient refuelers though

Yep, the RAF still operates the old Vickers VC10, powered by four R-R Conways, this aircraft is technologically comparable to the KC-135/707, some of which used the same engines. Also in service in the role is a number of L1011 Tristars bought second hand from British Airways and Pan Am. I think the RAF is the only military operator of the Tristar. They are both being replaced by the Airbus Voyager over the next couple of years

Below is the aforementioned replacement aircraft, the Airbus Voyager KC2 (and the three-point KC-3)



Recently a post appeared on here that made reference to various operations at Hurn airport in Bournemouth, UK, and tied these mysterious activities to chemtrailing. This new replacement programme may also, potentially, appear on these boards as a claimed secret UK chemtrailing project. If it does, it will be another fail from people who ought to know better.

The reason I say this is that the next 12 of the RAF's aircraft, out of a total of 14, are being converted at Hurn by Cobham, the main UK contractor in the programme, and flight refuelling specialists for 80 years. Part of this programme will involve installing the required Hose Drum Units (HDU's) under the wings from which the refuelling lines are Fed out, as in the image above. Below is a shot of the HDU from closer in.



These HDU's are standard on all airborne tankers that use the Hose and Drogue system and some here may remember the disastrously poor attempt on this website and elsewhere online to portray them as "spraying equipment" on a French KC-135 photographed on the ground in Canada.

Please try not to be fooled again.

Yeah but a fair number of chemmies think that aerial refueling is just a ruse for chemtrails.

Originally posted by firepilot

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by firepilot

 

Yep - and it even gets 1 factual conclusion completely correct - the NATO refuelling fleet needs re-engining!

I think most all of them are KC-135Rs and KC-10As. The KC-135A have been long retired or re-engined, and the E model is gone as of 2009. The Brits may still have some of their ancient refuelers though

My mistake - it is the NATO AWACs fleet they refer to - 17 E-3A's based and registered in Luxembourg (registered because Lux doesn't have an air force to operate them)

These a/c are still operating with JT3D engines - TF33 in military parlance.

Well the B-52H has 8 TF33s, and the US E-3Cs have the TF-33s too. That was the same one that was also on the C-141, and KC-135E

So the Belfort Groups has a beef with the fact that the E-3s used by the US and NATO have the TF33? Not sure exactly how they link that to chemtrails, I suppose I should go look at their report again sometime

Give it up OP. It's time you admit there's something very clandestine and perhaps sinister going on that we aren't privy to.

I have to wonder why certain people, particularly on forums, are hellbent to defend contrails to the extent they do.

These are clearly synchronized rendezvous with these planes. Planes do NOT show up, at the same time and NOT produces these trails.

We have plenty of people watching the skies and we WANT to see 8 or 20 planes flying at once, at roughly the same altitude, criss-crossing and NOT leave these trails. We would LOVE to see that so we can stop this madness of uncertainty.

This segment is from my home town (upstate NY) radio station this summer. Not saying this is evidence but it's evident that people are noticing these non-contrails:

According to Victoria Hardy of The American Chronicle, Dr. Stephen D. McKay, who has studied chemtrails for over six years, believes there are four ongoing projects in our atmosphere, "The first project is an effort to block the rays of the sun from hitting the earth including the ultra violet radiation that will come through without an adequate layer of ozone in the upper regions above the earth. This, it is hoped, will lower temperature on the surface of the earth and block ultra violet radiation from causing skin cancer in humans. The aerosol is probably aluminum oxide or a compound that would have similar properties."

"The second and most secretive project is the United States Navy's, RFMP, Radio Frequency Mission Planner, military program. The RFMP is the system name given to a group of computer programs and one of the supporting, subprograms within the RFMP system is called the VTRPE computer program. VTRPE is an acronym that stands for Variable Terrain Radio Parabolic Equation, It is a computer Radio Frequency propagation program that deals with radio waves and enables the RFMP system to visually see the battlefield terrain in 3 dimensions (3-D) on a television screen. The RFMP system also depends on satellites to feed their images of the battlefield into the RFMP system to be combined with the battlefield picture painted from the ground thus producing 3-D images."

"By providing an extremely interactive and visual (television type radar screens) environment, the Radio Frequency Mission Planner, RFMP system allows the computer operator to develop familiarity with the 'Radio Frequency' environment before a battlefield war mission occurs by playing a variety of 'what-if' virtual warfare scenarios on his computer screen. Since all major modes of Radio Frequency propagation are modeled in his computer, (RFMP system), special, sometimes counter- intuitive, cases can be examined in detail and exploited during a warfare battle mission."

"The VTRPE computer program only worked accurately over water and along coastal areas but not over land masses because the system's radar waves required an atmospheric condition known as 'ducting', over land, to operate accurately."

"The government and military solved the 'ducting' problem by releasing an aerosol, a mixture of barium salts into the atmosphere over America. They made an atmospheric RF duct with a base of barium aerosol from aircraft. The chemical and electrical characteristics of the mixture will cause water moisture to stay in clouds. Again, the aerosol sets up an electrical and chemical environment that supports RF ducting for the RFMP / VTRPE warfare system. Fibers with barium may support ducting. The mixture of barium salt aerosol when sprayed in a straight line will also provide a ducting path from point A to point B and will enable high frequency communications along that path, even over the curvature of the earth, in both directions. Enemy high frequency communications can be monitored easier with the straight line A to B ducting medium."

"The third project also utilizes the mixture of barium salts in the atmosphere. Weather control is a project of the U.S. Air Force and utilizes Nikola Tesla concepts of radio frequency radiation (HAARP) against the ionosphere above the earth. Fragile life support systems in our environment are being manipulated, tested and altered by government for military advantage. Air Force documents implied, 'the risks are high but the rewards are worth it.' The mixture of barium salts, supporting moisture, is encouraged along the weather fronts and manipulated in a control fashion. It is believed microwave energy is also utilized in the weather control program. Weather data is also a required input to the VTRPE program of the RFMP system. Perfected weather control technology will enable a military to withhold rain, cause floods, cause drought, cause storms, withhold sunshine, damage food crops, and bring any country to its knees without firing a shot."

"The fourth project in the atmosphere is the DARPA, Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, biological detection and decontamination programs. The program also utilizes the mixture of barium salts as the base vehicle in aerosol along with special polymer fibers in the atmosphere. They have released biological into the atmosphere in trials, testing the detection and decontamination systems."

"It is believed that barium salt, polymer fibers and other chemicals, in the atmosphere are the physical irritants that are either directly or indirectly responsible, for the recent epidemic increase in cases of nose bleed, asthma, allergies, pneumonia, upper respiratory symptoms and a noticeable increase in arthritis symptoms, recently reported nationwide. Chemicals illegally sprayed into the atmosphere are producing atmospheric and ground conditions detrimental to human and animal health but favorable to the growth of harmful molds and fungus.

reply to post by Human_Alien

We have plenty of people watching the skies and we WANT to see 8 or 20 planes flying at once, at roughly the same altitude, criss-crossing and NOT leave these trails. We would LOVE to see that so we can stop this madness of uncertainty.

What you describe can happen every day. Pick any very busy part of the world, in a region in a country with a lot of air traffic.

Thing is, that the people who believe in "chemtrails" just can't seem to grasp is, the jets will fly the same schedules, day after day, and be mostly not seen....because of the distance. (Distance away, when at cruise altitudes).
UNTIL it is a day when conditions are suitable for contrails to form, and develop....THEN is the time that people "notice".

That is the crux of it.

Really, in a volume of busy airspace, with cruise altitudes now RVSM and only 1,000 feet vertically separated when above 29,000 feet.....right there, from 29,000 to 40,000 the potential for 12 airplanes that can all be within a small block of airspace, just separated vertically from each other. Now, throw in a few more at the bare minimum of 5 to 6 miles horizontally.....ten miles is a bit more typical, in regular normal operations.

Try to think in 3-D....you can see the potential.

I just cannot understand why this is so difficult for some laypersons to grasp.....

reply to post by Human_Alien


Oh, boy......that was mentioned in another thread, just days ago.

Firstly, this "Victoria Hardy" describes herself as a member of a pop rock band, somewhere in South Carolina.

Secondly, I have searched and searched for any other mention of this "Dr." Stephen D. McKay. The only hit is for a Steven D. McKay, a doctor of chiropractic, in S. Carolina.

I doubt it is the same person.

This is the trouble seen, all too often.....WAY too often....with the majority of these "chemtrail" claims and stories that circulate on the Internets. Do NOT believe everything of this nature that you read....to do so is the epitome of gullible and naive, and well.....per the ATS motto...."ignorant".

Try this as a (possible) addendum to the ATS motto of "Deny Ignorance" --

"Trust, But Verify" (I know it's not original, but may be apt....)


ANYONE can write anything on the Web.....and even make it seem "plausible" at first glance. There are a great deal of very creative writers in the world.

But, a little bit of research and fact-checking soon will reveal when those claims asserted are hogwash....