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Originally posted by jmdewey60
Paraphrased, but read it yourself, in Mathew18:7.
I actually wanted to get into a lot of what Pedersen has written, but this was what I could afford right now, which is a used (though in perfectly pristine condition, as it turned out, one of these books that people think sounds good but can't quite get to reading) copy of one of his earlier works. I wanted to see if I could make sense of this before investing in the more expensive newer ones. I want to elaborate on these topics I only eluded to in the OP, and plan on that, as I progress.
Originally posted by ErgoSphere
Very interesting. S&F for your efforts. I admittedly don't have enough knowledge on this subject to make any intelligent responses given your opinions and research; however, I look forward to researching this for myself and retracing your steps. Perhaps I will find myself at the same conclusion. I hope you're able to elaborate further on this.
What he is saying is that we need to look at the Greek sources to see what the meaning of the word is, rather than looking at the Old Testament.
THE connotation of a word outside the N.T., and prior to or
contemporary with it, must always be of prime significance for
its understanding within the N.T. Conscience is one of the few
important Greek words of the N.T. that have not had imported
into them, through use by the LXX, a colouring from the Hebrew
experience and outlook of the O.T.
So, there we have some of the basics laid out, and enough to make me realize that I didn't know some seemingly important concepts. Eleutheria seemed familiar in that I would take note of it when I saw different forms of it in the NT text. Wikipedia says, Liberty, a type of freedom.
Nor have I been concerned to do what others have recently done with great success: analyze particular passages in the letters to show how these reflect a Paul who actively participated in the moral philosophical discourse of his day, though also (as everybody did) with his own special emphases.This has been done for topics ranging from specific concepts (like syneidēsis, adiaphora, exousia, autarcheia, eleutheria and more) to broader themes (like diatribe style, exhortation more generally and more). Instead I have attempted to show that there is a single, basic thought structure that is formulated in both Stoic ethics and in Paul.
No because I was not quoting anything, I was making an interpretive translation on the fly. I said so and I don't know why you can not get that.
You misquoted the verse below as well.
from Bible Helps,
Originally posted by pthena
reply to post by jmdewey60
The force? It is a form of this very ancient Greek word which all philosophy of the stoics hangs on.
From the usages that SuperiorEd laid out, it seems to be 'necessity' or 'inevitability'. Maybe the concept of 'Fate'.
This is very preliminary stuff I came up with, over a short time. I need to look into these various concepts and see what they mean, in a more detailed way.
["In classical Greek many words take their stem from anank-. The verb anankazō denotes the outward influence or pressure exerted by someone upon another. . . . At times there is implied in anankazō the idea of 'force,' thus it can even mean 'to torture' someone" (Liddell-Scott).]
from NAS Exhaustive Concordance.
from ana and agchó (to compress, press tight)
Stoic physics and cosmology
According to the Stoics, the universe is a material, reasoning substance, known as God or Nature, which the Stoics divided into two classes, the active and the passive. The passive substance is matter, which "lies sluggish, a substance ready for any use, but sure to remain unemployed if no one sets it in motion." The active substance, which can be called Fate, or Universal Reason (Logos), is an intelligent aether or primordial fire, which acts on the passive matter:
Frederick William Danker. The Concise Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament (Kindle Location 503). Kindle Edition.
[IE; the primary idea in Hellenic thought: inevitability as an inherent component of human experience and indicating that over which one has no control]-1. constraining/compelling force, necessity, constraint: w. e~ under pressure
"There are things, these things are inevitable, there is some force making these things be there, we can't do anything to prevent these things from being there. . .,then warnings given."
You would have to show me how you arrived at TWO forces.
The two forces you are referring to are the two spirits God set in place to govern free will. You are correct that in these last days, the balance of the spirit of darkness is being loosed. This is what scripture refers to as the separation of the sheep and the goats. When it says that the love of many shall wax cold and that brother will be divided against father and sister, it is referring to the division caused by corruption in the heart of man.
You would have to show me how you arrived at TWO forces.
The nature of all the children of men is ruled by these (two spirits), and during their life all the hosts of men have a portion in their divisions and walk in (both) their ways. And the reward for their deeds shall be, for everlasting ages, according to whether each man's portion in their division is great or small. For God has established the spirits in equal measure until the final age, and has set everlasting hatred between their divisions. Truth abhors the works of falsehood, and falsehood hates all the ways of truth. And their struggle is fierce in all their arguments for they do not walk together.
- - IV Community Rule
The Dead Seas Scrolls in English, G.Vermes, 1968, pg 77
The Angel of Darkness leads all the children of righteousness astray, and until his end , all their sins, iniquities, wickedness, and all their unlawful deeds are caused by his dominion in accordance with the mysteries of God. Every one of their chastisements, and every one of the seasons of their distress, shall be brought about by the rule of his persecution; for all his allotted spirits seek the overthrow of the sons of light.
But the God of Israel and His Angel of Truth will succor all the sons of light.
- - Ibid. pg 76
My take on this verse would be... Offences will come because at times we will all stumble... but when we stumble we do not have to fall... By judgement you stumble on the path... So woe to the man that stumbles on his path... for he can fall far from the path through his judgements...
2 Jesus called a little child to himself, and set him in their midst, 3 and said, "“Most certainly I tell you, unless you turn, and become as little children, you will in no way enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. 4 Whoever therefore humbles himself as this little child, the same is the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven. 5 Whoever receives one such little child in my name receives me, 6 but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to stumble, it would be better for him that a huge millstone should be hung around his neck, and that he should be sunk in the depths of the sea.
7 “Woe to the world because of occasions of stumbling! For it must be that the occasions come, but woe to that person through whom the occasion comes!
He goes away from the Dead Sea Scroll version of metaphysics and goes into a personal ethic, "woe to you who cause little ones to stumble." If there is some angel of darkness so what? You (teacher) are not exempt from responsibility for your own actions. The Father doesn't want any little one to perish. vs 14.