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The size problem

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posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 09:14 PM
Another thing to think about is that we are pretty far off the beaten track as far as our location in this galaxy. So if those stars toward the center have intelligent life they are millions if not billions of years ahead of us.

posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 09:21 PM
There is a research group (sorry, don't remember exactly who) that recently did some math based on how old the average star is and how long it took for intelligent life to happen in our solar system, and speculated that the average age of a civilization would be about 4.2 billion years older than us.

Let's hope that they've learned a few interstellar travel tricks by now.

posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 09:44 PM
I was watching a thing on TV yesterday about scientists shooting atoms, i forgot why. But they shot the atoms and the result was shocking when they found out that the atom got to its destination faster then it was supposed to. Faster then the speed of light. This could just be a misreading, but cool non then less.

posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 10:00 PM

Originally posted by SplitInfinity

Originally posted by PhoenixOD

Originally posted by spw184
Wow, you guys FAIL. Havent you read Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy? no? Well here, take this:

It is known that there are an infinite number of worlds, simply because there is an infinite amount of space for them to be in. However, not every one of them is inhabited. Therefore, there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. Any finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds, so the average population of all the planets in the Universe can be said to be zero. From this it follows that the population of the whole Universe is also zero, and that any people you may meet from time to time are merely the products of a deranged imagination.

lol thats not meant to be taken seriously .The logic and maths is wrong on so many levels. Douglas Adams has obviously never studied Cantor.

1 - Just because space is infinite it doesn't implicitly mean that all matter is infinite.

2 - if there WAS an infinite amount of worlds (which there isnt) and not all of them were inhabited then there would still be an infinite amount of inhabited worlds. So the population of the universe would be infinite. Thats how infinity works

edit on 14-10-2011 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)

What I have been reading here is a group of definitions upon theory that by our own limited mental understandings....has a tendency to garnish confusion and contradiction.

One little bit of direction that may at the very a broader concept to Universal states and the word

We struggle with concepts of INFINITY but the word INFINITY can only apply to the word MULTIVERSE and not UNIVERSE. In reality...we are not finding the connections between the Quantum World and the MACRO Universe....because there is no one existing connection but rather a Symbiotic Relationship that takes more into effect than what happens to energy and Matter in just our reality.

A better way to look at something being not to constrain ones thinking to size or time in the way we understand them. The better way is to not use size preconceptions at all. An example? OK......if we look at the possibility that our entire Universe as well as simply the inner makeup of a construct....and that construct is one of many that makeup the basis for another form of Universal or Multiversal quantum particle matrix......and size is of no issue as this concept goes in both directions....into a greater and greater construct as well as into a lessor and lessor every possible timeline or reality or even lack of both......we STILL would not even come close to understanding or defining INFINITY. Split Infinity

That was meant to be a joke ._x

posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 10:02 PM

Originally posted by shamdaddy
Another thing to think about is that we are pretty far off the beaten track as far as our location in this galaxy. So if those stars toward the center have intelligent life they are millions if not billions of years ahead of us.

Be very grateful that our star is located away from the Galactic Center as the massive amount of Radiation generated by all those stars and our Galaxies center Blackhole....would be too much for any type of life to delelop. It would be like a Sunburn times multiple billions! LOL! Split Infinity

posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 10:28 PM
reply to post by SplitInfinity

Infinity is a contradiction , theres no getting around that.

The universe can contain a finite amount of matter with an infinite amount of space to move into. Just as a man walking around a sphere can keep going forever. Multiverse theory is an example of infinity but it doesnt mean that any one universe in the multiverse cant be infinite in its own right.

Some infinities are larger than others. In fact there are an infinite amount of infinities that are infinitely larger than each other. Might sound confusing but its just maths and logic

posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 10:35 PM
Aliens ships are inter-dimensional, so rather then using them to traverse great distances in space they are used to negotiate vibrational densities. That being the reason for which they cannot remain in our reality for extended periods of time, or they would start materialize beyond the point of being able to return.

posted on Oct, 15 2011 @ 03:15 AM

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by bluemooone2
The most common answer to this(even put forth by People like Michio Kaku) seems to be that ET s may be able to bend space time like folding a piece of paper so that two dots on it meet , and boom they skip over vast distances.
However it seems to me that that act would destroy galaxies.
A much more plausible idea is that they may enter a state of hyperspace and exit in another location.

Entering a state of hyperspace IS folding that piece of paper, from our 3D perspective

But your avatar has the other answer

ahhh yes ..... good ole worm holes

posted on Oct, 15 2011 @ 08:22 AM

Originally posted by CORN IS NUTS
I have had these exact same thoughts; the sheer arogance of people that think we are the only spec. of life in the Universe is mind boggling to me.

It is to me, too. And to push the envelope further, I'll say that there are countless forms of life on Earth, of different sizes, constitutions and forms, all living in different environments that would be intolerable for another specie...

As above so below? If Earth is a mirror of the universe, then life is expected to be found following similar rules.

posted on Oct, 15 2011 @ 11:08 AM
Ah ha .. it looks like the neutrinos were not traveling faster than light speed after all

edit on 15-10-2011 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 15 2011 @ 12:13 PM
reply to post by PhoenixOD

There we go! Kinda sucks that they proved that wrong, i was hoping for a intergalactic-faster then the speed of light-spaceship for Christmas.

posted on Oct, 15 2011 @ 02:28 PM
Sir Hugh Dowding acknowledged the 10,000+ intricate and oft corroborative encounters and sightings of his pilots, airmen and personnel to be real and also craft not manufactured by any nation on Earth.

I'm not saying I'm blinding taking the word of the RAF's greatest ever Air Marshal, but I would accept his viewpoint on matters pertaining to such things more readily than just about most.

It should be a process of working backwards. We accept that their are intelligences visiting and currently present around Earth and our System, now we should just concentrate on what method they used to get here.

posted on Oct, 15 2011 @ 02:42 PM

Originally posted by schuyler
Every time I hear this (and I've heard it for over fifty years now) I wonder, who are you talking about? I have never heard of an "arrogant" person distastefully suggesting we are the only life in the Universe. Never. So I'm thinking this arrogant distasteful person surely is keeping a low profile because I've never heard him utter anything close to this. All I've heard is other people proclaiming that it is "arrogant and distastful" to suggest this.

This is a perfect example of setting up a straw man who does not exist, but is useful to pretend he does to advance your enlightened attitude and show how smart you are.

Actually, there are plenty of scientists proclaiming this. The 'unique humanity' argument was a fairly common view among astronomers in the 20th Century, before the discovery of exoplanets.

Remember for a long time, nobody knew if there even was such a thing as other solar systems. Now we know they are common, that affects the variables in Drake's equation, and it seems like most scientists do tend to believe there is probably other life out there -- but because FTL is impossible according to our current scientific understanding, they don't think they can get here, is all.

But there are still scientists who think Earth's intelligent life is unique. Stephen Jay Gould, the Darwinist, is one scientist who argued that humanity is probably unique, because the things that happened in evolution to lead to humanity was so random and so unlikely, that it probably has never happened anywhere else. The French biochemist and Nobel laureate Jacques Monod, said much the same thing, because of biochemistry.

Here is a third example, in this case a mathematician, who claim we as an intelligent species are probably unique:

Life on other Earth-like planets, for example, is possible in an infinite universe, but not probable, according to a scientist from the University of East Anglia....His model, published in the journal Astrobiology, suggests an upper limit for the probability of each step occurring is 10 per cent or less, so the chances of intelligent life emerging is low -- less than 0.01 per cent over four billion years.

There is a prime example of an arrogant scientist essentially saying we are unique. Why do I call him arrogant? Because he is simply making up numbers. His equation is sheer speculation. There is zero data available on how many other planets support life. Zero. As in none.

Without that crucial variable, he is simply deciding what the percentages are for each step of evolution and how long it takes -- and he is also completely ignoring the fact that advanced ancient aliens may very well have gone around and deliberately or inadvertently spread life around by terraforming, seeding, von Neumann probes, or simply by having the equivalent of domestic animals in their colony ark ships, who knows? Life propagates itself, intelligent life does so intelligently.

Professor Watson lacks imagination. He is just making up numbers to fit the facts of Fermi Paradox or his own preconceived notions. To me, that is arrogant.

posted on Oct, 15 2011 @ 03:39 PM
The thought of intergalactic travel is mind boggling to say the least.

I'm not sure how many billions of years it will take for our sister galaxy - Andromeda - to collide whin our own Milky Way galaxy. But when it gets close enough for near collision, thats when we might be visited by anyone from Andromeda who is up to the task.

Why travel to another galaxy? It might be imperative for populations to migrate to another galaxy, because of a galactic collision with another galaxy. I can only guess about the chaos involved with a galactic collision; but it occasionly happens in our Universe.

The speed of light barrier could be broken if the starship has a magnetic force shield surrounding the ship. The starship might run on lighted photon's for fuel. The speed of light could then be squared for a ships engine that gobbles up, and possibly spews out for thrust, light photon's similar to a black hole.
edit on 15-10-2011 by Erno86 because: spelling

edit on 15-10-2011 by Erno86 because: ditto

posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 12:26 PM
Intelligent life is like Pandora's box, once the lid is opened it's almost impossible to kill it off. Intelligent life is probably ubiquitous in the galaxy. Intelligence only needs to be able to make the jump into space ONCE. After adapting to a generic space habitat it can travel the galaxy and the universe at will just like a whale or a Great white shark can swim across the world's oceans with ease.

What stops these intelligent beings all getting killed off, the 'Pandora effect'? The vastness of space is what. Most folk make a huge mistake of believing that it must be a civilisation that spreads through space. Sorry, what spreads through space will be an evolving intelligence which evolves to match it's current circumstances. Only some part of these will be attached to a civilisation. The intelligence evolves in different directions and into different life forms. It's obvious if you look at the history of evolution on earth. There are millions of different intelligent life forms on earth, between 1 to 10 million DIFFERENT intelligent species on Earth, Don't believe me?

And this is just what we call 'lower order' intelligence. Imagine what an immortal artificial intelligence could do in space

Intelligent life forms in space will spread due to competition and a need for resources and the need to exploit new habitats, they will not stay static as they face the same imperatives that all living things face. It's the power of evolution baby!

edit on 17-10-2011 by ManInAsia because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-10-2011 by ManInAsia because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 03:55 PM

Originally posted by Erno86
I'm not sure how many billions of years it will take for our sister galaxy - Andromeda - to collide whin our own Milky Way galaxy. But when it gets close enough for near collision, thats when we might be visited by anyone from Andromeda who is up to the task.

Well right NOW we are merging with the Sagittarius Galaxy... in fact our solar system may be from that galaxy

The Milky Way - Welcome to your New Home Galaxy!

As for Andromeda

posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 04:25 PM
Source - Andromeda Galaxy Facts- On Bing

"Andromeda galaxy, also known as M31, is predicted to merge with the Milky Way galaxy within the next 5 billion years.

But the gap between M31 and the Milky Way is closing at 500,000 km/hour; with a distance of about 2.5 million light years away.

M31 is bright enough to be seen without binoculars in the constellation of Andromeda. It looks like a smudge of light to the naked eye.

M31 has two nucleus'es, which scientists believe that Andromeda has already cannibalized another galaxy already."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---

The major concentration of life in the spiral galaxy's, should be in the spiral arm's of such galaxy's, as in a prime example such as Earth. So Earth could be in a location where advanced civilizations capable of interstellar travel would search for life at first chance.

posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 04:35 PM
reply to post by Titor86

I think it's a safe bet that any interstellar traveller is probably using some kind of drive that gets around the idea of linear transportation as we know it.

We've already got the theoretical physics that could allow for it, we simply have no power source capable of even testing the theories.

Of course, there may be completely different methods out there, that we haven't discovered...that an alien civilization (especially if older than us), has...

I doubt anyone is living for thousands of years, or taking that long of a road trip...

Most scientists even concede that the Universe is probably full of life...they simply state (as your opening post implies) that the distances are too great for any of them to actually meet up.

They may be right...but I think we've seen enough evidence in the past 60 years to make a good case that someone is visiting us. The bigger mystery for me is WHY do they want to stay secret?

posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 04:43 PM

Originally posted by shamdaddy
Another thing to think about is that we are pretty far off the beaten track as far as our location in this galaxy. So if those stars toward the center have intelligent life they are millions if not billions of years ahead of us.

Yeah, but the closer you get to the center of the galaxy, the more killing radiation you're exposed to, also. It's more reasonable to assume that just like with a solar system, there is a certain "warm" zone where there's enough radiation to live, but not enough to sterilize everything.

Either way, though, as Fermi pointed out, even traveling at speeds well below light, there has been more than enough time for intelligent space faring creatures to have spread to every little nook and cranny of the galaxy, including our boring little arm. Yet, they seem not to have.

posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 12:02 AM
Intelligent life seems not to have made it here?

Let's think about the 'seems' bit some more. How far can we actually see? Well we can make a pretty good guess that there is no civilisation building stuff all over Mars or Venus etc. But no intelligent life?
I don't think we can even say that about the rest of the Solar System yet, nope. Plenty of places for it to hide out, whether it be subterranean Mars, floating around in the atmosphere of Venus and Jupiter, swimming around in Europa's ocean or in Titan's methane lakes. We really don't have a clue.

Also, let's think about intelligence that is far MORE intelligent than us. Will they need to construct and control the environment so much? Will they be interested in reproducing to massive numbers? I'm not convinced they would.

That is just the solar system where are our glasses are still misty, when it comes to looking at other solar systems we can't even look at them directly, at least not yet. Even when we do they won't be much more than dots on our computer screens.

Fermi's paradox is not really a paradox when you understand our technological limitations so far.

Lastly some folks might have seen things with their own eyes things that are 'out of this world', but it is just not a provable fact.
edit on 18-10-2011 by ManInAsia because: (no reason given)

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