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The size problem

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posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 02:01 PM
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I was just thinking about this and it got me wondering so I thought, I know I'll post on ATS and start a discussion (hopefully)

I for one believe, that based on the sheer size of the universe alone it must be teeming with life. I find it distasteful and arrogant to assume that even in our one, unremarkable little galaxy our sun is the only star out of 200 - 400 billion with a planet that supports life (by this I mean complex & intelligent life)

So the thing I was wondering about is this. Our nearest star (other than the sun) is about 4 light years away meaning it would take four years to get there at light speed. We're 25,000 light years from the center of our galaxy and our nearest galactic neighbor is 2.5 million light years away.

Does anyone have any theories about any species that might come from outside of our galaxy traveling here because the inter stellar distances alone are mind boggling (and yes I get that they are technically far superior)

I was just wondering if anyone could post and material on alternative theories to faster than light travel/wormholes etc etc etc

This video can help you to beter comprehend the size of our universe if you can get over the voice over guy

www.youtube.com...
edit on 14-10-2011 by Titor86 because: to add video




posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 02:06 PM
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Im sure there are other life forms out there and theres nothing to say that they dont live a lot longer than us. Of course theres probably countless lifeforms that live a lot shorter lives to.

Assuming that Einstein was right and faster than light speed is impossible for anything with mass then the other possibilities are :

- Worm holes.
- Suspended animation.
- teleportation.
- Sending probes.


edit on 14-10-2011 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by PhoenixOD
Im sure there are other life forms out there and theres nothing to say that they dont live a lot longer than us. Of course theres probably countless lifeforms that live a lot shorter lives to.

Assuming that Einstein was right and faster than light speed is impossible for anything with mass then the other possibilities are :

- Worm holes.
- Suspended animation.
- teleportation.
- Sending probes.


edit on 14-10-2011 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)


Well we also have to consider that faster than light speed may actually be possible .. given the realization that scientists may have already found neutrinos that exceed that speed already.. ( I am still waiting on that to be verified )



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 02:14 PM
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reply to post by Titor86
 


Very nice thread! I have had these exact same thoughts; the sheer arogance of people that think we are the only spec. of life in the Universe is mind boggling to me. I for one think that there has to be million if not billions of other areas in the Universe that are teeming with life. But how to travel the long distances is a very good question.
Worm holes?
Dimensional travel?
Faster than the speed of light?

Who knows.....

Just another thought;

We once thought the world was flat... WRONG
We once thought the the Earth was the center of the solar system... WRONG
We once thought (or a good number of people) that we are the only life in the Universe .... WRONG (IMHO).



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 02:18 PM
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It could just be that most beings live a lot longer than us and hundreds of years of travel are like nothing to them.



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 02:21 PM
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We may be on the verge of discovering that faster than light travel is a possibility , if the observations at CERN are proven correct .

Given the implications for the possibility of extra dimensions intergalactic travel may well be a possibility , we may have just read the first word on page one of the idiots guide to faster than light travel , but other civilizations far more ancient and civilized than ours may have finished the book long ago .



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 02:23 PM
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The most common answer to this(even put forth by People like Michio Kaku) seems to be that ET s may be able to bend space time like folding a piece of paper so that two dots on it meet , and boom they skip over vast distances.
However it seems to me that that act would destroy galaxies.
A much more plausible idea is that they may enter a state of hyperspace and exit in another location.



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 02:33 PM
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Well we also have to consider that faster than light speed may actually be possible .. given the realization that scientists may have already found neutrinos that exceed that speed already.. ( I am still waiting on that to be verified )
reply to post by miniatus
 


I'm watching that one myself I follow physics quite closely. But even if you travel 100 times light speed it would still take 250 years just to reach Andromeda let alone any distant galaxies



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 02:35 PM
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Given the implications for the possibility of extra dimensions intergalactic travel may well be a possibility , we may have just read the first word on page one of the idiots guide to faster than light travel , but other civilizations far more ancient and civilized than ours may have finished the book long ago .
reply to post by gortex
 


That's an absolutely wonderful analogy
The idiots guide to faster than light travel LOVE IT!!!



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 02:38 PM
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What about nearby? With 46 sunlike stars besides our own within 54 light-years of Earth that are on average a billion years older than the Sun, there could easily be more than a dozen planets with indigenous civilizations millions of years older than our own, plus that many or more habitable planets they have already colonized.

edit on 14-10-2011 by xpoq47 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 02:38 PM
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Aliens will never find Planet Earth. The size of the Universe and even our own galaxy is too vast. There are tribes of natives living on our planet that we have only just found exisist, and our planet is just a speck in compaision to what our in space and beyond.

From 2001:-

news.bbc.co.uk...

From 2007:-

www.smh.com.au...

From 2011:-

travel.aol.co.uk...

And here is what i think on the subject:-

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 02:39 PM
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Personally I haven't ruled out other intelligent life forms right here in our own solar system, maybe even unknown gaseous types in our own upper atmosphere and unknown life underground and under sea.

It seems types of many species found themselves caught in or retreating to caves at some point in history and developed cave dwelling off shoots. With the many earth catastrophes in the past it is not a stretch to think humans or their relatives went underground at some point.
If they then lost their sun vision turned white and became sun sensitive like the other species we find in caves, fish, bats,insects, lizards, salamanders and such, it would be very hard for them to resurface and indeed i feel they would eventually retreat deeper.



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 02:47 PM
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I keep seeing words like 'arrogance' in reference to the we're alone stance.
I won't dispute that the universe, and even just our galaxy is quite phenomenally vast.
I won't dispute from a numbers perspective, on probability alone, that the chances of intelligent life NOT being anywhere else in just our galaxy are smaller than the chances FOR intelligent life existing.

On the other hand, though we may not be 'alone' in the universe, or in the galaxy, to all extents we may still be very much 'alone' if indeed a means for bridging those impossibly vast distances does not indeed exist.

Thus, we can still be alone in the universe, even if technically the universe is absolutely swarming with life.

As far as finding a way to bridge those impossibly vast distances, I'm all for it. Even if we could teleport instantaneously to any place in the entire universe, it could still take over a million years to explore even a small fraction of just our galaxy.
Finding the needle of life in that haystack may very well be difficult.



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 02:48 PM
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reply to post by alldaylong
 


We are centuries if not thousands of years away from FLT , yet we are scanning the heavens with our primitive knowledge of science and limited technology looking for habitable planets , how many candidate's would we have by the time we attain FLT ? , how much better would our observation equipment be ?

Its a fair bet that any space fairing civilization would have been studying stars and planets along their journey just as we do , who can tell what technology they would use to discover planets to visit .



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 02:48 PM
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I think that time is energy. Our perception of it is linear based on the physical manifestation of our known part of the universe. I think that once we get our heads around the time being energy that is part of a fractal, harmonic, physical , quantum and practical universe, we may get the key to open and move through the flows. Now, I have stated a whole bunch of independent theories for universal explanation, but I believe if we look at singularity existence (black holes) and were better able to really determine how they work, you might just find that ALL of those theories work. Picture in your mind a flow chart with a three dimensional cone coming to a point on a line called the event horizon. Then picture it's counter part on the other side of the event horizon going from point out to three dimensional cone. Now, gravity is a determination of the speed of time energy circulating and oscillating down through the cone to the event horizon, which in itself is a Planck moment. Now, the fractal part of this concept is that each model of two sides of an event horizon is infinitely expandable to encompass each and every molecule, every physical manifestation and construct AND every perceptual construct. This is where metaphysics and harmonics also converge upon this theory. So, taking it back a moment, the model has an event horizon that during this Planck moment creates a physical reality in our universe. If it is a molecule then it is small and specific, it may be a model encompassing the room your are in though, or the planet, the solar system, the galaxy...any and every thing that has perceptual consistency by anyone and anything. Now, this ties into space travel because I believe that once we realize this space time model, we may be able to effect it. We may be able to manipulate the model to change the perceptual reality of space and time around an individual.

Anyways, this is something that kinda came to me after doing some research and reading on fractal math, singularities, metaphysics and quantum physics. There are parts I have left out, but I hope I can expand the imagination of some other ATS readers



edit on 14-10-2011 by EarthChilde because: Forgot really neat point:

edit on 14-10-2011 by EarthChilde because: ... If you look at the 3D cones and the flows oscillating one can almost imagine DNA strands spinning and creating some of the physical occurences...double helix



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 02:53 PM
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reply to post by gortex
 


We can also consider the fact that Alien life forms on other planets have not developed the technology to travel vast distances across space. I have no doubt that life must have developed elsewhere in the Universe, but we will never find out.



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by CORN IS NUTS
Very nice thread! I have had these exact same thoughts; the sheer arogance of people that think we are the only spec. of life in the Universe is mind boggling to me. I for one think that there has to be million if not billions of other areas in the Universe that are teeming with life. But how to travel the long distances is a very good question. (IMHO).


To be fair I think that very few people are of the opinion that we are the "only" spec of life in the Universe.
However many of those that do believe in ET visiting planet Earth are quick to put this label on skeptics who don't believe the Earth has been visited by ET ........I see it in forums all the time.

Belief in ET existing in the Universe and ET visiting Earth are 2 VERY different things........so I don't think too many think that we are the ONLY life form in the universe......but many have their doubts about ET coming to Earth.



edit on 14-10-2011 by Logical one because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 02:56 PM
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reply to post by miniatus
 


Personally i will be very surprised if nutrenos can travel faster than light. But even if it is proved that they can then there is a huge difference between that and getting normal everyday large lumps of matter (like us or space ship) to do the same. It would be a step in the right direction but only as much as jumping off the ground is a step in the right direction to flying to the moon.


edit on 14-10-2011 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by xpoq47
What about nearby? With 46 sunlike stars besides our own within 54 light-years of Earth that are on average a billion years older than the Sun, there could easily be more than a dozen planets with indigenous civilizations millions of years older than our own, plus that many or more habitable planets they have already colonized.

edit on 14-10-2011 by xpoq47 because: (no reason given)


I think an important statistic to take into account is not just how many Earth like planets are out there......but how many have a similar sized and distanced moon which keeps the atmosphere and conditions stable enough for intelligent life to get going.
It's thought that without our own moon being the size and position it is, we humans may not be here today or certainly not as advanced as we are today.
Our Moon and the influence and role it has played in developing life on Earth should not be underestimated.

edit on 14-10-2011 by Logical one because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by bluemooone2
The most common answer to this(even put forth by People like Michio Kaku) seems to be that ET s may be able to bend space time like folding a piece of paper so that two dots on it meet , and boom they skip over vast distances.
However it seems to me that that act would destroy galaxies.
A much more plausible idea is that they may enter a state of hyperspace and exit in another location.


Entering a state of hyperspace IS folding that piece of paper, from our 3D perspective


But your avatar has the other answer



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