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Faith and Politics

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posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 02:01 PM
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what faith means
definition1;complete trust or confidence in someone or something: this restores one’s faith in politicians.
definition2; strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.

If u add all the denominations of Christianity then it is the largest and most popular in the world. So i will concentrate, my slight rant lol towards Christianity’s obvious and ubiquitous short comings. Please keep in mind that you will surely find that the points in this thread im trying to make will apply to other religions as well.
Some denominations of Christianity who have been brainwashed into believing everything that is written in the Bible is true. Now wholeheartedly they renounce scientific reasoning.
They are also against freedom of speech, unless it suites them,ie preach the word of hatred. Also , try as they might , they want us to make homosexuality,divorce and abortion against the law because to them that's what the Bible implys. There is no hope in trying to make delusional people see that the true intention of the writers of there beloved scripture was to encourage, the masses to abandon hatred and any form of greed and most of all benevolence. The teachings were meant so they could make their own individual moral judgments on the world soley upon equality, compassion and honesty rather than following the often Neanderthal and barbaric moral dictates of a religious texts.

This also implys to the overwhelming brainwashed majority of Muslims today who have been brainwashed into believing that the Koran is the final and last word of God, so armed with that view they oppose any form of democracy also like Christianity any form of freedom of speech,unless it suits them,ie preach the word of hatred,they also share the same views about homosexuality,divorce and abortion but they do implement harsh laws for these already. they fear that today's democratic values is going to evidently replace old conservative Islamic views so they fear the west.

I for one think the concept of religion for any intelligent person is a futile thing. BUT please don't hate me for saying that,thats just my opinion.

Religions are authoritarian in nature that's a fact. Most of what i say is aimed towards the bad apples as they say.I know there is benefits to religion no matter how small but same could be said about gun powder or the A bomb lol. One simple fact is you don't need to have faith in anything to tell you,you should not kill,cheat,steal or anything else that YOU know is wrong just trust in your OWN intellect. It baffles me how people allow this concept to dominate there free will. So you become united under what ever banner they choose for you it is the oldest but still the most effective way of social conditioning. Ask you self why are religious teachings invariably mysterious,incongruently confusing and never straight forward to understand. Why do people have to go study for years to fully understand the word of there god. Why would they write something that the masses of that time and today cant fully understand. Shouldn't the word of god be clear so the last 2,000 year was not full of blood in there names. You already have and had presidents who use religion to get elected. So many politician in America mix religious beliefs with political rhetoric. They know that this is the quickest way to get votes, be it the fact that there are 33,820 denominations of Christianity globally. The biggest in america is evangelicals even if they are out numbered they still turn up to vote more than the average Joe. Presidents use the evangelicals or is it the evangelicals use them people like Billy Graham who met with Obama in 2010. Billy Graham and entourage used the visits to the oval office as publicity. Graham and his pastors made a statement to the press outside before entering. they spoke about the details of there visit.then three pastors even went on to try an make the press kneel on the lawn of the White House as if praying. and this type of symbiotic relation has gone on as far back as Harry S. Truman but the most ridiculous of all Presidents to do this and shine light on this affair was Bush. We in Britain are lucky that our politics do not get mixed up with any form of faith. Its this type of thinking that america is allowing in to its politics no good will come of it. Not just your Founding fathers but many separated church and state deliberately. Politicians should no doubt honour this. There is no room for backwards thinking in this day and age if america lets these types in to far in politics you will find your selfs in a state close to what you have in the middle east.

Thanks to all who read











posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 03:02 PM
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reply to post by indisputable
 


Hmmmmm.....ok.

Well why rant about a certain religion. ALL people of faith and the ones of no faith in a deity can be a "bad apple". The individual either has a good intent or a bad one and not one in the same all the time.

Picking on just one religion as they all agree is not logical to me because no two people agree on their religious or even non religious beliefs within the same religion.

Each person is responsible for his intent and it has nothing to do with a religion or not having a religious belief for that matter. It may indeed be influenced by it....but hey....we can't blame it on a religious belief no more than we can blame our parents for a wrong doing.

You are what you become.... and when days are over here on Earth...guess what....can't blame sh** on your religion.


I also want to add that while you, yourself see no need for prayer in the highest of office of government but I do. I not only think it helps, it can heal a nation. Do not be so quick to think it doesn't.

edit on 14-10-2011 by MamaJ because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 03:08 PM
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I agree with your view concerning faith and politics. Its a shame that many people looking for some kind of hope don't appreciate how 'political' religion is, basically since the bible was written.

I disagree with you that its better in the UK simply because of the seats in our government held by the clergy. Our monarch is head of the Church and therefore religious control divulges down to the ordinary people. We may have let various religions in, but although they are here and we do a good PR job and some of their followers are sabre rattlers, little inroad to the seat of power exists in reality.

That is except in one area, today Oliver Letwin has been caught dropping off papers into park bins. This particular gentleman is by faith and action a supporter of Israeli causes in this country. If you think about the way this country responds towards Israel and its actions as opposed to other Nations such as libya, you don't need to look very far into our politics to see where 'faith' has a huge influence.



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 03:29 PM
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That is except in one area, today Oliver Letwin has been caught dropping off papers into park bins. This particular gentleman is by faith and action a supporter of Israeli causes in this country. If you think about the way this country responds towards Israel and its actions as opposed to other Nations such as libya, you don't need to look very far into our politics to see where 'faith' has a huge influence.
reply to post by Lynda101
 


This statement above is my thinking as well (not that it is right
).

"Faith" can have many faces but I think the ones with a truer sense of real faith does not have an intent to do wrong or hurt people and not only that...all people are equal in that truer sense.

God has been a scapegoat for many to do wrong, and it is sad that any one person would not take responsibility for their own actions. Hiding behind a religion is disgusting in my opinion but many people do it, sadly.

You can't kill someone because your "faith" says so... I mean....how naive and twisted.



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 03:38 PM
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reply to post by indisputable
 


There are levels of faith :

strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof. And investigating about the reasons will help you learn more about proofs for your faith.

In Islam Shiite philosophy it is taught that Human being is a mixture of lust and anger and nafs.

Nafs is the inner self winch could let the truth to be respected and it is the commander which could control lust and anger.

In the first step , every one should stop being illusion and should not ignore the facts as learns about them,

In the second step , every one should give the priority to the truth which he has found.( Anger and lust should be controlled and the truth should be accepted by heart)

In Islam every one should respect the truth , doesn't matter who heshe hears it from.

39-18


THOSE WHO LISTEN TO WORD, AND FOLLOW ITS BEST, THEY ARE THOSE WHOM ALLAH HAS GUIDED THEM; AND THEY ARE THOSE ENDUED WITH UNDERSTANDING.

edit on 14/10/11 by hmdphantom because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 03:43 PM
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This applies to any entity in one stops and thinks about it religion or their faith in government doesn't matter what one wants to believe in but no faith should have greater meaning than the faith in yourself.

Should people have faith in politics? No
Should people have faith in government? No
Should people have faith in religion? Thats between you and your maker by whatever name you call him or believe at all.

Have faith in yourself the rest is gravy.



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by neo96
 


I think the pilot who dropped bomb on Hiroshima had a deep faith in himself.

May be you mean we should trust our understanding and investigations ?



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 05:16 PM
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reply to post by indisputable
 


Part 1.
Well this is pretty cut and dry. It seems so for the op and it is for me as well. But my opinion is as far as the east is from the west. So let's begin.



definition1;complete trust or confidence in someone or something: this restores one’s faith in politicians.
definition2; strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.


You give 2 definitions of Faith. But they are deluded and incomplete.You also editorialize the first one at the end. So thats a sleight of the hand as well. In your second definition you give one of the reasons but leave out the fact that there are a multitude of other facts that could be included to also describe the Definition as well. So there is another edit and sleight of hand. Or maybe just "Selective purpose of Content?" Let's move on.



If u add all the denominations of Christianity then it is the largest and most popular in the world. So i will concentrate, my slight rant lol towards Christianity’s obvious and ubiquitous short comings. Please keep in mind that you will surely find that the points in this thread im trying to make will apply to other religions as well


In your comments above you seem to make it clear that you have an issue/issues with all religion Thus the reason for you "Slight Rant" Let's move on.



Some denominations of Christianity who have been brainwashed into believing everything that is written in the Bible is true. Now wholeheartedly they renounce scientific reasoning. They are also against freedom of speech, unless it suites them,ie preach the word of hatred. Also , try as they might , they want us to make homosexuality,divorce and abortion against the law because to them that's what the Bible implys.


In your comments above, your erroneus.Your conclusions are Bias and unsubstaintiated and without survey or proof due to the fact that you label all people of Christianity as being 100% guilty of your accusations. I for one am not. I also know countless others that are not as you say and they are of faith. There is nothing wrong with science as long as it doesn't pretend to be God.Also the accusations you throw about preaching the word of hatred is also abusive and untrue.Finally freedom of speech, homosexuality,divorce. as you mention and say that "They" want it made against the law, is alosi incorrect at best.BTW Homosexuality and Gay Marriage are two totally different issues and the reason is simple. No law in Amerrica makes it illegal to be a Homosexual, but Marriage was defined as a union between a Man and Woman i.e. "A man shall cleave unto His Wife and they TWO shall become ONE flesh.



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 05:23 PM
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you mention scientific reasoning and then not 2 lines later you mention homosexuality, divorce, and abortion issues being influenced by religion.

i dont think that it takes a rocket scientist to understand that there is no scientific reason in any of those 3 things. from a scientific point of view the union between male and female creatures has always been to procreate. none of those 3 things achieve procreation. therefore it becomes painfully obvious that those 3 things in one way or another are exploitations of the procreation process, for whatever personal gain the supporter desires.



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 06:03 PM
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reply to post by indisputable
 


Part 2.
Let's move on.



I for one think the concept of religion for any intelligent person is a futile thing. BUT please don't hate me for saying that,thats just my opinion.


That being you opinion is one thing you are absoloutely correct about. Let's move on.



Religions are authoritarian in nature that's a fact


I think your above comment is also a good description of you as well.



Ask you self why are religious teachings invariably mysterious,incongruently confusing and never straight forward to understand. Why do people have to go study for years to fully understand the word of there god. Why would they write something that the masses of that time and today cant fully understand


I understand it. Didn't take years. Who can say who understands or understood i.e. 2000 years ago or 100 years ago for that matter.



You already have and had presidents who use religion to get elected. So many politician in America mix religious beliefs with political rhetoric. They know that this is the quickest way to get votes, be it the fact that there are 33,820 denominations of Christianity globally. The biggest in america is evangelicals even if they are out numbered they still turn up to vote more than the average Joe. Presidents use the evangelicals or is it the evangelicals use them people like Billy Graham who met with Obama in 2010. Billy Graham and entourage used the visits to the oval office as publicity. Graham and his pastors made a statement to the press outside before entering. they spoke about the details of there visit.then three pastors even went on to try an make the press kneel on the lawn of the White House as if praying. and this type of symbiotic relation has gone on as far back as Harry S. Truman but the most ridiculous of all Presidents to do this and shine light on this affair was Bush.


As far as the above comments all I can say is what Billy Graham and his entourage came to The White House for was not foul or politically motivated and not for abolishing the seperation of church and state. Nor is kneeling a requirment of prayer. It is a symbol of respect towards The God you are praying to. But regardless, to each his own. Let's move on.



We in Britain are lucky that our politics do not get mixed up with any form of faith. Its this type of thinking that america is allowing in to its politics no good will come of it. Not just your Founding fathers but many separated church and state deliberately. Politicians should no doubt honour this. There is no room for backwards thinking in this day and age if america lets these types in to far in politics you will find your selfs in a state close to what you have in the middle east.


The above quote is so inaccurate and twisted. What your politiciians do is their business and yours.You need to know a bit about Englands' history on this topic and The Declaration of Independence and you obviously don't because There was no seperation between The Rebublic and a belief in God.In fact the founders knew that without God there could be no Republic because God was the one that endowed everyone with liberty.The term you refer to as "Seperation of Church and State" simply meant that They , the founders didn't want a state sponsored religion as was the case in England. Check your English history.The founders wanted the people to be able to got to worship as they saw fit and not be influenced or told what church or denomination was right or wrong. Such is not the case in this thread... thanks s/f because you have a right to your opinion. So do I and everyone else.



posted on Oct, 15 2011 @ 01:33 PM
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lol I think i hit a nerve. As i stated and i know it comes across to readers who are not angered, really clear. That not all followers of faith are bad people just the bad apples i also state SOME denominations of Christianity and Muslims and all other religions who have been brainwashed. By that i mean the extremists of all religions who just fuel hatred through misconstrued teachings. I knew writing this thread that i would get negative feed back. When it comes to religion any criticism of any wrung doings is perceived as an attack. Which is due to the unbridled devotion which stops most seeing things clear. I assure you all that what i have said is not an attack. I was solely trying to get the consensus view from the better part of these religious communities. I hear a lot about how the Muslim extremists are not backed by the mainstream Muslims. But what about the Christianity extremists nearly every one who as posted on this thread seems to think they don't exists. So theses people must be Christians and are treating my thread as an attack.



posted on Oct, 15 2011 @ 02:27 PM
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reply to post by indisputable
 


I think I hit a nerve too. I have nothing personal against you. But what do you expect people to say when you call them Brainwashed and attack their belief in God? But that being as it may. Did you think about the fact, not the opinion but facts of the Declaration of Independence? And the true meaning of seperation of church and state? As a Brit you should know more of your own countries history, before you decide what is right or wrong with a country you seem to equally know little about. Are our politicians corrupt? YES... Does America have problems? YES ..Are Americans perfect? NO And does anyone have the right to attack the faith in God of another human being? NO...Can they do it anyway? YES.. You see you make my point with your own words.. You know why? To decide what is or is not right for a Free Human Being is the same as dictating who or what and when they are allowed to worship. Thats the cornerstone of seperation of church and state. In otherwords seperated from anyone or anything That dictates what a person should be doing, or has to do when it comes to their belief in God. The opposite would be me telling you , your a brainwashed weak minded person if you don't believe what I tell you to believe. Your a smart guy, certainly you must get the point ..



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