People Who Demand Entitlements From The Tax System Are Greedy

Originally posted by SM2

Originally posted by AzureSky
While i understand what you are saying here, im assuming this is kind of a stab at ows who 'want something for nothing', but one must understand that money has no real value, when the system collapses and inflation takes over, it will be essentially worthless. But.
The banks got something for nothing, big bailouts, yet i believe when something is meant to fail, it should fail, instead of being propped up by the tax payers. Wonder how much the FED has loaned out, last i heard was like, 22 trillion dollars? Dont quote me on that, as my memory is fuzzy.
Equality is not asking something for nothing, its asking for a chance to have that something.

If money has no value, fine, send me all of yours, i will be glad to recycle all that useless crap for you. I am all about equality, but lets face the facts here, I am sorry, but things are equal. Lets take 2 men as an axample. Both come from the same town, the same neighborhood, its a poor neighborhood. They start off on equal footing. man A, decides early in life that he wants to be a neurosurgeon, man B still has not made up his mind what he wants to do. So the years pass by, man a, graduates high school with high marks due to his relentless work ethic and desire to reach his goal. Man b, well, he barely graduated high school, decides he is going to wait on going to college and moves into his mom's basement where he congregates with all of his other friends that have made a similar decision, and they sit around eating doritos and smoking weed (not that I think there is anything wrong with doritos or weed). Well another few years goes by, and Man A has finished his first degree, now onto post grad work and then off to residency at a hospital. He worked hard enough in high school, and spent some time researching,found a school he could afford and has essentially gone to med school for free. State and federal grants and some scholarships were identified by him and he worked to secure them. he has very minimal debt for school as a result. Finally, man B says he has made up his mind, he is going to go to Princeton University for a doctorate degree in underwater basket weaving, he thinks that will make him desirable to the work force.

Years go by, Man A has worked his tail off, he is now a neorsurgeon working for a top hospital, has a beautiful wife, 2 kids, a nice house, 2 cars, and is living well within his means, most of his debt, through careful planning, frugality and hard work have paid off by allowing him to save cash to buy the things he wants, or make a sizeable down payment and obtain a low interest rate, which allowed him to pay more on his loans and get them paid off very early.

Man b however, he is now a Dr of underwater basket weaving, he cant find a single place that needs a submarine waever, he has racked up $100,000 in student loans, still lives in his moms basement, hanging out with friends, smoking weed and talking about how things are so unfair. They decide that Man A is the responsible party, he is the reason they can not find under water basket weaving job and have all this debt from school. So they decide to launch a protest movement to force man a to pay for their debt and give them a free house and pay for their medical bills.

Im not talking about someone who makes 200,000, or 400,000. Im talking about people who make billions and billions at the expense of others. If you dont see it happening then please do go to sleep.
I chose a career that i knew would be good for a long time, its also my passion.
People want to work, and do something that they love. Like teaching. or painting, or whatever.
Just wait, the global collapse is coming, and money will be worth nothing to us. But the rich will be loaded even more. While i cannot argue all of your points, nor do i want to, The system is fundamentally broken, i dont know why i see it moreso than other people. But it is plain as day for me.
I am not asking for entitlements, or sympathy.
I have a good job, make decent money, and pay my bills (which essentially leaves me with 100 bucks for two weeks). Im saying, 24 million vacant homes in the US.

Excellent OP. Sadly, the entitlement crowd rarely sees the other side of the coin.

I would expect more flaming from certain members, but I think they have their hands tied on Wall Street at the moment.

Originally posted by mnemeth1

Originally posted by AzureSky

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
reply to post by mnemeth1

 

Great question and great point (S & F) Unfortunately you make too much sense and will now be bombarded with a bunch of touchy feely, emotionally based comments about how you are a racist and hate poor people.

Just walk into a poor neighbourhood.
See for yourself.
Go see a makeshift camp with people who lost their homes, and jobs, and everything.
If there were jobs, unemployment wouldnt be at great depression levels. Just saying.
Corruption is no joke, fight corruption.

Jobs are created by people like you.

If you want a job, go buy yourself some seeds from Home Depot and start planting. You can then sell the harvest to stores for a profit.

Alternatively, you could spend your time designing some software that solves a business problem, and then sell that on the open market for a profit.

Alternatively, you could buy yourself some hot dogs and buns from the grocery store and build yourself a little push cart, then walk around busy areas selling hot dogs to people for a profit.

There are a million ways to make money that don't involve electing politicians to rob people on your behalf.

Im not refering to myself. Look at what exxon mobile has done to some african countries, see how they live, and what causes that? There is a wealth of information about how they move in and steal the lifeblood from a country. No wonder there are so many starving kids. 1 out of every 2 children starve every day. The trillions of dollars that his been sucked out for this global economy could do something other than sit in a bank account.

Whatever though, I have a job, i work for my money. But i love to work, because i love my job. If money didnt exist, i would still do my job, because i love doing it. But i need money to live. Just like everyone else.

reply to post by DerbyCityLights


Can you give me your statistics on all these users? Or is it just this propaganda theory you have created in your head because you can't possibly understand anyone else's life outside your own existence?

Here is an example maybe you didn't think of. This is a true story.

Once upon a time there lived a happy family. Dad made a decent amount of money. They owned a nice home with a modest mortgage. They were very spendthrift and bought a older house for cheap and fixed it up. Unlike a lot of people during that time that bought fancy nice houses. They had good credit and could have blew it on a big house but they didn't want a big mortgage. They put down $125k. So fast forward. Their children are getting to school age life is seemingly good. Then in 2008 bam his employer lays Dad off without any notice. Unemployment only pays about $1300 a month. Years go by and Dad can't get a job. He sends 10 resumes a day on average. He can't even get an interview. He has a university education 7 years of higher education and he is too old and too qualified. Managers at fast food places don't want to higher him because of his experience being greater then their own. His industry is dying because they are replacing his kind with younger cheaper labor. So being the responsible man and seeing that the market had blocked him out he started his own business. He made $1500 a month and some months nothing. With 4 kids and no money for daycare Mom had to stay home. She would go to work but who would watch her kids. They had been smart, saved a years worth of emergency money in case such a crisis occurred but that is all gone. The money they put in the house diminished with the falling market. The banks will get everything when they are done. And the family? They will have nothing nothing but the kindness of friends family and strangers and the meager assistance government provides them. Less the 1000k for a family of 6 that paid taxes and did everything the GOV told them to do. They saved they were frugal but now they are one of the forgotten families that you might refer to as users or greedy. Before you judge...Live it.

reply to post by AzureSky


Well the first person you should be flailing is George Soros, he is one of the richest men in the world, made his fortune by insider trading and collapsing economies. Hell he is a jew that turned other jews into the nazis during ww2. Oh, but wait you cant do that, because he is the champion of your cause these days. He is even funding the OWS movement through the back door, seeing as though he has been proven to provide funding to ad busters, the people that organised the OWS. For the record, i really think George Soros is the real life equivilant to emperor palpatine from star wars, even favors him in the face.

Originally posted by jibeho
Excellent OP. Sadly, the entitlement crowd rarely sees the other side of the coin.

I would expect more flaming from certain members, but I think they have their hands tied on Wall Street at the moment.

Not entitlement. Right vs Wrong. If you dont take in the information given to you, and there is lots of it here on ATS alone. Then your a lost cause. If you cant see yourself getting screwed by the economy, you're very lucky. Gas must not have went up there, food, commodities. , must be nice to be in paradise.

Lets just spend more money on weapons, war, and death
Lets continue deforestation until there is nothing left
Lets continue destroying the environment.
Lets continue shipping jobs overseas, and foreclosing on peoples homes.

Yeah, everything is just peachy.

Originally posted by SM2
reply to post by AzureSky

 

Well the first person you should be flailing is George Soros, he is one of the richest men in the world, made his fortune by insider trading and collapsing economies. Hell he is a jew that turned other jews into the nazis during ww2. Oh, but wait you cant do that, because he is the champion of your cause these days. He is even funding the OWS movement through the back door, seeing as though he has been proven to provide funding to ad busters, the people that organised the OWS. For the record, i really think George Soros is the real life equivilant to emperor palpatine from star wars, even favors him in the face.

Got any proof of this? aside from words alone? There is a statement by ows that says they would not accept any corporate money. All the money raised has been from independant donations. You give me some relevent evidence other than the words of someone, and give me some fact. And ill be inclined to believe you.

Originally posted by mnemeth1
I ask this question:

What is the difference between a bank executive who relies on making a profit from the easy money policies of the Federal Reserve banking cartel at the expense of tax payers and a person who demands free health care or schooling paid for at the expense of tax payers?

Healthcare and education are prerequisites for being a modern human, they are not the same things.

Is it likely that you survive if you are deathly ill without healthcare?

Can the majority of people function and thrive in modern without an education?

Can the world survive with the federal reserve or elite bankers?

Clearly a person who works for the government can never truly "pay" taxes because they are paid from taxes!

yes they can, because that money becomes their personal property in exchange for work.

Doesn't this mean that those who produce real goods and services that benefit humanity are the only people who really bear the entire burden of the tax system?

???

Isn't it greed that motivates socialists more so than those who want nothing more than to produce something good for humanity and then sell that good for something of equal value? Why does society consider those who produce to be greedy while those who want something for nothing to be morally just?

Not everyone is greedy, not every producer "works", most socialists "work" in the private sector,
this is a silly thread.

Originally posted by outandopen
reply to post by DerbyCityLights

 

Can you give me your statistics on all these users? Or is it just this propaganda theory you have created in your head because you can't possibly understand anyone else's life outside your own existence?

Here is an example maybe you didn't think of. This is a true story.

Once upon a time there lived a happy family. Dad made a decent amount of money. They owned a nice home with a modest mortgage. They were very spendthrift and bought a older house for cheap and fixed it up. Unlike a lot of people during that time that bought fancy nice houses. They had good credit and could have blew it on a big house but they didn't want a big mortgage. They put down $125k. So fast forward. Their children are getting to school age life is seemingly good. Then in 2008 bam his employer lays Dad off without any notice. Unemployment only pays about $1300 a month. Years go by and Dad can't get a job. He sends 10 resumes a day on average. He can't even get an interview. He has a university education 7 years of higher education and he is too old and too qualified. Managers at fast food places don't want to higher him because of his experience being greater then their own. His industry is dying because they are replacing his kind with younger cheaper labor. So being the responsible man and seeing that the market had blocked him out he started his own business. He made $1500 a month and some months nothing. With 4 kids and no money for daycare Mom had to stay home. She would go to work but who would watch her kids. They had been smart, saved a years worth of emergency money in case such a crisis occurred but that is all gone. The money they put in the house diminished with the falling market. The banks will get everything when they are done. And the family? They will have nothing nothing but the kindness of friends family and strangers and the meager assistance government provides them. Less the 1000k for a family of 6 that paid taxes and did everything the GOV told them to do. They saved they were frugal but now they are one of the forgotten families that you might refer to as users or greedy. Before you judge...Live it.

Exactly. Live it.
I grew up poor, i got very little on holidays, my parents tried their best to provide for us. My mother was diagnosed with schizo-affective disorder, and is unable to work, she gets her disability, but it is not that great. Dad worked in the navy during a wage freeze, and they racked up credit and went bankrupt just to feed the family.

All big business and the government gives a # about is the short term benefits of what their policies hold. Guess what? Your children, and your grandchildren are going to be slaves, if they have work at all. And guess what? The way we're going now, the environment will be decimated. Which it already is for the most part, we have precious little left, and its being sucked away by billionaires without a soul.

Originally posted by AzureSky

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
reply to post by mnemeth1

 

Great question and great point (S & F) Unfortunately you make too much sense and will now be bombarded with a bunch of touchy feely, emotionally based comments about how you are a racist and hate poor people.

Just walk into a poor neighbourhood.
See for yourself.
Go see a makeshift camp with people who lost their homes, and jobs, and everything.
If there were jobs, unemployment wouldnt be at great depression levels. Just saying.
Corruption is no joke, fight corruption.

"Walk into a poor neighborhood"... no need, I'll just look out my window. I have spent 26 of the last 36 months unemployed, but guess what I did... instead of giving up and holding my hand out to the government I went back to school, EARNED an education and now I have a great job making great money and I am moving out of this neighborhood into a much nicer one in December. If I can do it anyone can do it. People need to realize that they and they alone are responsible for their lives, happiness and the result of their equal opportunity. Liberals in government make it much harder because of their socialist economic policies and high regulation/taxation. That is what kills jobs, and there will be no jobs until we get someone that understands market economics in the White House. Government does not create jobs... government creates the environment that is conducive to creating jobs... or killing them.

Originally posted by DerbyCityLights
reply to post by outandopen

 

Actually, tax payers DO have to pay for some of the heating and cooling bills.

And if they want to move out of the slums, get an college education and get a job. I came from a family that made $25,000 a year in 1990. I joined the NAVY, did my four years to make sure I was mature enough and responsible enough for college, then went to college and I now work as a Hardware and Test Engineer for a global corp. Don't give me that "they cant do it cause its to hard" crap. I don't buy it for a minute.

So.... after you spent 4 years with taxpayers clothing, housing, training, equiping and feeding you, you went on to have your college paid by taxpayers...

Originally posted by AzureSky

Originally posted by jibeho
Excellent OP. Sadly, the entitlement crowd rarely sees the other side of the coin.

I would expect more flaming from certain members, but I think they have their hands tied on Wall Street at the moment.

Not entitlement. Right vs Wrong. If you dont take in the information given to you, and there is lots of it here on ATS alone. Then your a lost cause. If you cant see yourself getting screwed by the economy, you're very lucky. Gas must not have went up there, food, commodities.

, must be nice to be in paradise.

Lets just spend more money on weapons, war, and death
Lets continue deforestation until there is nothing left
Lets continue destroying the environment.
Lets continue shipping jobs overseas, and foreclosing on peoples homes.

Yeah, everything is just peachy.

There is big difference between a need and a want. Just ask a 5 year old. I've been seeing a lot of "I want this/that" lately from the groups marching around instead of going to class that they or their parents have paid for.
Our failing system to help those in NEED is in great trouble as it is right now. The give:take ratio is completely out whack and meeting the demands that have been dredged up by these folks will only serve to collapse a system that is doing its best to help the needy. Take the massive fraud out of the system and it would work just fine.

Furthermore, I never said or implied that I haven't been screwed by the economy. My health insurance premiums went up, my deductible went up, my out of pocket went up and my coverage got reduced when Obama said I would save an avg. of $2500 a year. I'm actually paying $3200 more a year for my coverage. My home is undervalued and worth less than I paid 10 years ago. So, I'm underwater. I pay more for groceries and gas just like everyone else. I also work hard and try to save money at every turn.

I don't agree with Obama's war mongering/obama doctrine either.
I am opposed to certain trade agreements that have screwed this nation like NAFTA, and the establishment of the WTO. etc etc

We've got lots of problems to deal with and they should be addressed singularly and with focus. The throw it all at the wall approach to see what sticks will never work because everything that falls gets left behind.

I also cannot give support to the OWS movement because I know what is behind it and why.

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime

Originally posted by AzureSky

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
reply to post by mnemeth1

 

Great question and great point (S & F) Unfortunately you make too much sense and will now be bombarded with a bunch of touchy feely, emotionally based comments about how you are a racist and hate poor people.

Just walk into a poor neighbourhood.
See for yourself.
Go see a makeshift camp with people who lost their homes, and jobs, and everything.
If there were jobs, unemployment wouldnt be at great depression levels. Just saying.
Corruption is no joke, fight corruption.

"Walk into a poor neighborhood"... no need, I'll just look out my window. I have spent 26 of the last 36 months unemployed, but guess what I did... instead of giving up and holding my hand out to the government I went back to school, EARNED an education and now I have a great job making great money and I am moving out of this neighborhood into a much nicer one in December. If I can do it anyone can do it. People need to realize that they and they alone are responsible for their lives, happiness and the result of their equal opportunity. Liberals in government make it much harder because of their socialist economic policies and high regulation/taxation. That is what kills jobs, and there will be no jobs until we get someone that understands market economics in the White House. Government does not create jobs... government creates the environment that is conducive to creating jobs... or killing them.

Well thats good, good for you! Glad you found something that works for you. The game is rigged. Its obvious to me and may not be obvious to some. I get that. But the way its been going, is wrong, we're not just supposed to care for ourselves. And only lookout for ourselves. Helping the less fortunate is not a bad thing.
Im just tired of this system we live in, its completely rigged and effed.

Personally, i think the people who demand taxes are far more greedy.

But i somewhat understand your point OP.

The thing is, is this your own point, your own opinion? Or is this something that your being spoon fed from various sources?

The trouble is, they (the TPTB, the 1%) want us divided. They want the rich hating the poor and vice versa. They want the hard working taxpayers hating people getting welfare/disability/unemployment (for whatever reason). They want the white people hating people of colour and vice versa, they want us hating immigrants etc.

Why do people seem to hate immigrants, illegal or otherwise? What have they done wrong, they are stealing our jobs right? Wrong. They are trying to better their lives whichever way they can, and you know who is allowing it, the Governments, who are in the pockets of the big rich banks and corporations.

Why do people seem to hate others on welfare/disability/unemployment? They are stealing our hard working money right? Wrong. They are trying to better their lives whichever way they can. You know who's allowing all the people that are actually genuinely scamming these benefits. The Governments, who are in the pockets of the big rich banks and corporations

Do you see what i'm getting at?

Stop blaming the people who are doing what they are doing just to get by and start blaming the people who are allowing all this to happen.

The oldest trick in the book is to "Divide and Conquer", and this is what they are doing right under our noses and most are just lapping it up.

Now we the people need to play them at their own game.

The taxpayers pay interest on your enormous national debt. Thats it.
Anything that is paid for, by the tax payer, is paid by more loans.

Originally posted by skitzspiricy
Personally, i think the people who demand taxes are far more greedy.

But i somewhat understand your point OP.

The thing is, is this your own point, your own opinion? Or is this something that your being spoon fed from various sources?

The trouble is, they (the TPTB, the 1%) want us divided. They want the rich hating the poor and vice versa. They want the hard working taxpayers hating people getting welfare/disability/unemployment (for whatever reason). They want the white people hating people of colour and vice versa, they want us hating immigrants etc.

Why do people seem to hate immigrants, illegal or otherwise? What have they done wrong, they are stealing our jobs right? Wrong. They are trying to better their lives whichever way they can, and you know who is allowing it, the Governments.

Why do people seem to hate others on welfare/disability/unemployment? They are stealing our hard working money right? Wrong. They are trying to better their lives whichever way they can. You know who's allowing all the people that are actually genuinely scamming these benefits. The Governments.

Do you see what i'm getting at?

Stop blaming the people who are doing what they are doing just to get by and start blaming the people who are allowing all this to happen.

The oldest trick in the book is to "Divide and Conquer", and this is what they are doing right under our noses and most are just lapping it up.

Now we the people need to play them at their own game.

edit on 14-10-2011 by skitzspiricy because: (no reason given)

Thankyou! I said this earlier!
"It doesn't matter how you look at it, Divide and conquer has worked before, and has never stopped."
We only look at our differences, if we dont stop that, then the human race is going to perish. And the ones that did look past all the BS that has been programmed into us, we'll survive, and make a new, better world.
Ascension, here i come!

Originally posted by AzureSky

Originally posted by SM2
reply to post by AzureSky

 

Well the first person you should be flailing is George Soros, he is one of the richest men in the world, made his fortune by insider trading and collapsing economies. Hell he is a jew that turned other jews into the nazis during ww2. Oh, but wait you cant do that, because he is the champion of your cause these days. He is even funding the OWS movement through the back door, seeing as though he has been proven to provide funding to ad busters, the people that organised the OWS. For the record, i really think George Soros is the real life equivilant to emperor palpatine from star wars, even favors him in the face.

Got any proof of this? aside from words alone? There is a statement by ows that says they would not accept any corporate money. All the money raised has been from independant donations. You give me some relevent evidence other than the words of someone, and give me some fact. And ill be inclined to believe you.

well look at this website and follow the money trail....
activistcash.com...

that is their financials, a little old it appears, but still accurate. As these people continue to fund them. Also look into their connections, also a link on that site.

Top donor was foundation for deep ecology, which is funded in part by the tides foundation and several other soros funded groups. Tides and seirra club also donated to Ad busters. the next biggest donor was the Glaser Progress center foundation, which in turn adbusters also funds them, funny how that works aint it. Glaser is also funded by Soros through his myriad of other groups. Tides also funded Glaser. Then comes the Weeden Foundation, also funded by Soros through The sierra club, Tides center and Tides foundation, they were the third biggest funder for Ad busters, and wait for it, Ad busters also fund them. Seriously, wake up. Follow that link and Look at the numbers yourself if you do not believe, unless you do not want those pesky little facts getting in the way of your idealogy.

reply to post by SM2


Tides foundation....
You know how much of their money comes from soros? around 5%
That's less than the saudi royals hold in news corpse stock...
blog.tides.org...

Oh: And Tides stopped giving money to adbusters in 2010.

That amount of money is miniscule in comparison the the funds being stolen by the globalists.
Im not ideological either,
Wether it is funded or not by Soros,
The people on the ground want real change, Just because soros linked companies donate to adbusters, does not mean said money is going to OWS.
Is he funding the other 1500 occupations too?

Clearly a person who works for the government can never truly "pay" taxes because they are paid from taxes!

Doesn't this mean that those who produce real goods and services that benefit humanity are the only people who really bear the entire burden of the tax system?

These are good points. To me this is justification for reducing government size. It definitely needs streamlining just as the private sector needs regulation. Somewhere there's a midlle ground where both can be done. Unfortunately most people are absolutist about it and can never see a balanced see-saw. For them, one end must be up and the other down.

Absolutism in economics and finance only creates imbalance in the long run.