Extreme Chemtrail-day in Holland! Is anyone else seeing this?

How Aerosols Contribute To Climate Change:

The aerosols could be influencing how much snowfall the Arctic gets and keeps. Human-produced aerosols are thought to stifle precipitation in some areas but may provide the impetus for torrential rain in others depending on their chemical make-up. Even if the Asian aerosols are not affecting precipitation, however, Russell said they appear to cool the Arctic atmosphere by deflecting light into space. At the same time, there is strong evidence that they are accelerating ice melt in the Arctic by darkening and heating ice once they fall to the ground the way a dark sweater makes its wearer hotter on a sunny day than does a white sweater.

www.sciencedaily.com...

reply to post by Hundroid


Go to this website:

www.flightradar24.com...

Navigate to the view of Europe.

Scroll and zoom as needed to see the view over the NL. Note them many various directions airplanes fly.

I searched for European air navigation (Upper) charts for you, to find online links (I can't just pull you here, and show you the ones I have):

www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr...


I know, looks complicated and intimidating at first. I can answer specific questions.

Please keep in mind that in a radar environment (just about all of Western Europe) not all airplanes are required to be on those established, published Airways. Air Traffic Control can vector them on any heading required, in order to conduct the business of maintaining proper legal separation from each other.

This "Chemtrail" stuff has always made me laugh.

NO those planes in the original pics are not flying low. They look to be at about FL260 to FL320 (26,000-32,000ft) depending on where those planes were headed they might be a tad lower.

Last time I checked the temperature in the upper atmosphere is about NEGATIVE 30 degrees Fahrenheit, which usually means any water vapor coming off the tail end of the aircraft will crystallize creating CONTRAILS. Say it with me: C-O-N-T-R-A-I-L-S, short for CONDENSATION TRAIL.

Yes, I do believe our Governments are involved in some pretty sheisty #, but the whole "chemtrail" theory to me is bogus. Logistically impossible to keep that many people to keep their mouths shut; Every airline mechanic, pilot, co-pilot, and hundreds of airline employees can't ALL be in on it. Someone would have said something, or brought some sort of proof to the table.

I'm more willing to believe that Bigfoot exists than Chemtrails.

Just my $0.02

Originally posted by Cerdofuego
The fact that these plains are flying VERY LOW over my house and therefore shouldn't be able to create such large contrails, despite the cold weather conditions here.

None of the photos in the OP look like they are at low altitude.

Why don't you take one of the planes flying low that are making the trails, instead of ones that look like contrails??

That would be a real coup!

reply to post by ArrowsNV

Last time I checked the temperature in the upper atmosphere is about NEGATIVE 30 degrees Fahrenheit, which usually means any water vapor coming off the tail end of the aircraft will crystallize creating CONTRAILS. Say it with me: C-O-N-T-R-A-I-L-S, short for CONDENSATION TRAIL.

You say ANY water vapour will crystallize...then why so many planes at the same altitude do not make contrails? If what you say is true, we should have contrails at every hour of every day.

reply to post by Trueman


I take it you didn't actually read and comprehend the Science Daily article??:

How Aerosols Contribute To Climate Change:

I invite everyone to take the time to absorb the information presented there.

Also, understand what the term "aerosols" means in the context of the studies.

(Hint: Some are naturally occurring phenomena....others are unintentional by-products of Human technology).

Originally posted by ProudBird
Originally posted by JustBreathe11


This happens every Fall and Winter....people in the northern hemisphere make these sorts of threads, and more come along and make claims that are incorrect, based on flawed (or lack of) knowledge:

Those are not contrails. Contrails dissipate within 30 seconds, but lets just say under 10 minutes just to be safe.

Wrong.

Contrails come in varieties....but, that chart above lumps them into three major groups.

I live in Cali and we get sprayed a lot over here. Today I woke up and most of the sky was chemtrails.

I'm in Los Angeles. And no...no "spraying" going on. Why do so many people lie about this??

Its interesting that they come in waves. There are times were for weeks the sky will be clear but then one morning they start the spraying out of nowhere and weather conditions are relatively the same from no spray to spray.

What "weather conditions"?? On the ground? Do you not understand our atmosphere?

We had a bit of a heat wave, yesterday and day before (Wednesday, Thursday 12 and 13 October 2011). An area of high pressure was the reason. There is now a cooling trend, and upper level moisture moving in. This will vary depending on the region of the state, or country you live in.

Itis called "meteorology". Many as you say above "ignorant" people would be well served to get educated about it.

I still don't know what the purpose is but geoengineering is a fair assumptions

Ignorance is bliss.

No, it is just saddening to see.......

That global contrail chart has been debunked, many times.

reply to post by ProudBird


Thanks PB, but believe me...it was not normal, today. I found posts about this on dozens of different Dutch blogs, all over the country. I am not saying they are chemtrails and we are getting bio-mutated, I do not believe in that, but no normal sky today in NL and there's no need of conspiracy theorists to affirm that, just look at the sky.

Originally posted by Hundroid
reply to post by ArrowsNV

 

Last time I checked the temperature in the upper atmosphere is about NEGATIVE 30 degrees Fahrenheit, which usually means any water vapor coming off the tail end of the aircraft will crystallize creating CONTRAILS. Say it with me: C-O-N-T-R-A-I-L-S, short for CONDENSATION TRAIL.

You say ANY water vapour will crystallize...then why so many planes at the same altitude do not make contrails? If what you say is true, we should have contrails at every hour of every day.

How do you know they are at the same altitude? You can't determine that from standing on the ground. You'd need to be in the cockpit, picking up radio chatter, or standing inside your local ATC center to know that for certain.

I'd be willing to wager money that they aren't, they're lower and therefore the temp is not at the right place to form a contrail.

Show me a canister of this supposed chemical, a distribution system for it installed on an aircraft, or hell even the just the NAME of whatever chemical they've been spraying us with since the dawn of jet travel and I will concede that "Chemtrails" exist.

edit: And there are contrails where I live almost 24/7/365 as long as its not too windy of a day. Idk where exactly in the Netherlands you are but I've been to Amsterdam, Rotterdam, Gouda, and a few other towns there and I always remember seeing contrails. Hell it can happen on a windy day too, the airstreams at flight level might be completely calm while its blowing hard on the ground. Rare but it does happen.

And in regard to my earlier comment, "Exhaust vapour trails or contrails usually occur above 8000 metres (26,000 feet), and only if the temperature there is below −40 °C (−40 °F)" (taken from Wikipedia)

Chances are you were seeing a plane that was climbing to cruising altitude and wasn't at the proper altitude to produce a contrail.

reply to post by Hundroid


"normal" is not relevant, since the conditions at high altitude vary greatly.

I see you were confused by another claim, that "all" water vapor crystalizes....no, not always, hence is why not always do contrails appear. Factors that vary are Relative Humidity and ambient temperature.

This is worth a read, a study done locally near Fairbanks, Alaska in 2006....as a means to better understand:

contrail.gi.alaska.edu...

A bit longer read, and more technical perhaps:

www.dtic.mil...

reply to post by angelchemuel


Um thats a photomanipulation, it isn't a real image.

reply to post by ProudBird


Whoever doesn't believe in chemtrails, is probably getting payed for that or is the pilot of one of those planes.

I guess name calling wasn't the best thing to do, so my apologies to those I offended.

I know for a fact the Russians, Chinese and Germans use these methods for geoengineering.

Here are links to article for all the countries.

Russian Appeal of Weather Control

China Leads Weather Control Race

German Scientist Exposes Chemtrails as Military Operation

reply to post by ProudBird


HI PB, it seems flightradar today was underestimating the number of planes in the sky:

LOOK AT WWW.FLIGHTRADAR24.COM shows that there are only a few DOZENS OF PLANES IN THE AIR UP THERE OR OVER THE NETHERLANDS BELGIUM AND WE SEE WHAT'S ON ANY PLACE BUT THEN, MANY MORE THAN DOZENS OF THE SAME TIME. WE ARE SHORT lied to and DECEIVED TO FORM THE WEATHER TO TALK TO !!!!!

This coincides with what I also witnessed, I counted at a certain moment at least 13-15 planes. I got this text (translated with Google) from here but it's only in Dutch. I can assure you there are many other blogs reporting the contrails of today. I repeat, no normal day today 11/10/2011 in NL.

reply to post by ArrowsNV

Show me a canister of this supposed chemical, a distribution system for it installed on an aircraft, or hell even the just the NAME of whatever chemical they've been spraying us with since the dawn of jet travel and I will concede that "Chemtrails" exist.

It's clear you do not read my posts carefully. I am not saying that I saw chemtrails. What I am trying to highlight is the ridiculous amount of planes in the sky. And I also think you should get some rest.

reply to post by Hundroid


You have to stop and also consider that when conditions are just right, contrails will persist, and spread, for many hours.

So, just looking at a "snap-shot" in time on FlightRadar24 isn't telling you the whole story.

At cruise speeds, a jet covers 7 to 8 nautical miles about every minute. Jets in radar contact (at high cruise altitudes) can be as close as 20 NM in trail (in a row, same altitude) along the same route.

But, now add to that, all the other altitudes, even on same route...in each direction. Then, all the various other routes, at different angles (courses), all with the many possible altitudes.

Then, consider that airplanes are flying through that little area of the sky that you see from the ground, to account for many more contrails...that also persist, and spread. And, they can additionally drift with the wind.

The wind moves over the surface of the Earth, carrying the contrails along....but, the airplanes fly routes that are relative to the ground. See? And, wind direction can vary with altitude. It is always different:

Relative Humidity vs Altitude vs Temperature vs Day vs Week vs Hour even....

Just to clarify; I'm not debating the theory that Governments could do something like that, the science is there for Weather Modification. I'm just arguing that the logistics behind implementing that kind of system into every or a good share of commercial airliners and other high-altitude jets all without someone coming out and talking about it is wayyyyy to unlikely for me to believe. I mean, just think about it like this: first you would need a company to secretly manufacture and supply mass amounts of whatever chemical is being sprayed into the atmosphere, THEN you would need ground crews to replace, refill and maintain said systems. After that you would need people to operate the system, which I'm assuming would be the pilots. And then after that you would need to pay off a good chunk of employees at the airline company to keep their mouths shut forever (which would require a literal boatload of cash)

And finally you just have to think of the logic behind it. Why? If it's weather modification supposed to be used for causing droughts and the like, why are they 'spraying' everywhere? What good will it accomplish from their perspective?

If these pilots are paid off so well then why were they protesting their (semi)menial wages at OWS a week or two ago?

You'd think if they were willing to march against their own respective employers then they would probably be willing to talk about things like that. Especially if they're not being paid enough.

edit: The ridiculous amount of planes in the sky has to do with the fact that it is the 21st century and air travel is pretty common today. And I wasn't replying to you originally, I was replying to the thead starter who seemed to be convinced that they were chemtrails. I replied to you about the condensation, and no I'm good on the 'rest' thing. Got plenty of that last night.

reply to post by ProudBird


PB you are kind in explaining me things that only flight professionals or nerds know, but from what you are saying It must be assumed that similar "spraying days" should happen, not on a regulary basis but - let's say - about once a year. I never saw something like today. If I will see again such unpleasant show maybe I will say you are right.

reply to post by Hundroid


This is sickening hundroid, and it seems we are powerless to do anything
about this BS. Don't waste your time entertaining the deniers here who
will glibly take the sight from your eyes and the sense from your judgement.
This is sickening, deadly serious s**t.
All our governments are actively out to harm us!

reply to post by Cerdofuego


Thanks op. I live in The USA , west coast and they have been going at it like crazy yesterday and today especially. I have pictures but have not uploaded them yet. BTW in reply to those who say it's cooling down and they are a rusult of that cooling effect I say hogwash. Its 90 degrees here today and not as cold as it was last night and last night there were no spraying trails.. thx again op and keep alert..
PS. Is it colder in the upper atmosphere at noon than it is at midnight in the same day ?