Extreme Chemtrail-day in Holland! Is anyone else seeing this?

reply to post by waynos


Nope, I don´t see myself as a conspiracytheorist but just a normal curious guy trying to get a good explanation for things I can´t explain myself.

So far neither of the duellants has come up with a convincing solution to the trails? ( I´ll just stick to "trails" being neutral as I am...)

reply to post by m4ng4n

Two trails seemed to start inside a giant cloud ...

I looked at your photos. There is often the case, with laypersons, a problem with understanding perspective when looking up at the sky.

Those clouds are cumulus, and they are at a much lower altitudes than the contrails. SO, the contrails aren't coming "out" of those clouds, they are well above them, at higher altitudes.

As to contrails that seem to end, or start. Differing areas of air will cause that effect. This may be whilst the airplane is at same altitude, but flies in or out of conditions conducive (Relative Humidity and temperature combination). Also, may occur when the airplane is changing altitude...whether climbing or descending.

Sometimes even a few hundred feet makes a difference.

I see the fall has predictably (and reliably) brought out the chemmies!

Pro-tip: Stop reading lies from the "chemtrail" cult, and look into the reason why "chemtrails" are so seasonal.

Spoiler alert: It's simple meteorology.

I've been traveling in Europe for the last month, and I've been in Amsterdam for the last few days. I've definitely been seeing a lot of chemtrail-looking like clouds in the sky.

Funny how I noticed this on my own and ended up seeing this thread on the main ATS page

reply to post by adeclerk


Ever been to Sweden? Trails are constant here, 12 months a year so which season do you refer to?

Originally posted by m4ng4n
reply to post by adeclerk

 

Ever been to Sweden? Trails are constant here, 12 months a year so which season do you refer to?

Sweden, being far north, would have conditions that would be favorable to contrail formation (at altitude, usually between 25,000 and 45,000 feet) almost all year round. Places closer to the equator have distinctive "contrail season", when upper atmosphere temperatures will be colder. You can observe this here in Florida, where contrails don't typically show up until around october, and continue through feb/march. The rest of the year is clear skies and beautiful puffy white clouds.

So tell me, since we don't have contrails here often, except for during the season, are they "turning off" the sprayers above my area, or is meteorology to blame for a lack of contrails?

Originally posted by m4ng4n
reply to post by waynos

 

Nope, I don´t see myself as a conspiracytheorist but just a normal curious guy trying to get a good explanation for things I can´t explain myself.

So far neither of the duellants has come up with a convincing solution to the trails? ( I´ll just stick to "trails" being neutral as I am...)

Go back and read my, and other professionals in the industry's, posts in similar threads to find the explanations for what you are seeking.
I for one, get sick of posting the science and first-hand knowledge in every. single. chemtrail thread.
Signed, a pilot with a BS in Professional Aviation Flight Technology and a minor in Meteorology (not showing off, just providing some ACTUAL creds, other than "hey guiz I saw this video on youtube zomg chemtrails!!!!11!!!").
OR, if you want to actually learn for yourself instead of getting some free groundschool from me which normally costs like $130/hour, go pick up some books at your library or audit some college courses in the pertinent subjects.

I am really not getting how people are saying "I dont understand how the contrails stay in the sky" when i myself understand it perfectly.

Every question and point has been addressed with answer that make logical sense. We are not shills or demons because we can grasp basic meteorology.

reply to post by m4ng4n


How about taking a look at this video (and plenty of others) from MY perspective. From inside the cockpit.

Here, as usual this pilot was bored (common malady on long International flights). They are over Georgia. That's pretty far North! Well....only about 41-42 degrees, but still....(NO, not Georgia, the state in the USA)....

Wow, that's some heavy spraying there. I don't think I've ever seen it that bad here in Texas. Don't mind the ignorant
ones and especially the paid ones who flock to a chemtrail thread as soon as they see it. Easy to spot, they usually leave a helpful link for you to follow

reply to post by TexasTea

Easy to spot, they usually leave a helpful link for you to follow

lol you say that, but make no mention of what this 'link' is.

Originally posted by dplum517
reply to post by network dude

 

I sense your sarcasm ND...

I of course would disagree that "every" line in the sky is trouble.

Just to humor your question..

It would be nice if our governments included the "civilian" sector when it comes to matters of modifying the weather and climate..... instead of contracting out to some DoD company that does everything behind closed doors.

concern without action is such a waste of energy. If you believe in your heart that "THEY" are spraying you, then do something. anything. Posting about doesn't seem to be getting it done.

Originally posted by m4ng4n
reply to post by adeclerk

 

Ever been to Sweden? Trails are constant here, 12 months a year so which season do you refer to?

The seasonality of contrails varies in a similar way to the seasonality of rain.

For example, in Los Angeles, where it hardly ever rains in summer, you hardly ever get contrails in summer. But in the UK, where it rains all year round, you get contrails all year round. You usually still more contrails later into the day in the winter though, on average.

In Sweden, at the Visby Aerologiska station, the 2010 soundings show 17% of the soundings had persistent contrail conditions. 26% of the night soundings, and 7% of the afternoon soundings. This is fairly consistent through the year, but dips in the summer. You got the most afternoon contrails in Dec, Jan and Feb.

For the 2011 soundings, it's similar, but a it higher 24% total, 29% night, 19% afternoon. It looks like you've actually had more contrails in the summer so far this year though. Has that been matched by increased summer rains at all?

reply to post by Cerdofuego


I live in north-east Netherlands and I was amazed by the amount of chemtrails in the sky yesterday! I have never seen anything like that, it just felt like screaming 'STOP SPRAYING OUR !@%!@$@ SKY!!'

reply to post by TsukiLunar


Why do we even bother anymore? They can not understand fundamental facts- why push them? If they want to believe the government(and since contrail happen all over the world this includes EVERY government) wants to kill them, let them believe it. They are only hurting themselves.



Yes. Why do you? Why do you waste your time on a conspiracy site to try to educate us morons who can't understand fundamental facts? Why is it so important to you? Are you our hero here to save us from a silly conspiracy? Certainly interesting. Why are you so worried ? If it's so silly, what are you saving us from hero? Why not let us just post about the funny lines coming out of the planes and be on our merry way? I noticed you brought up the ol' "governments are trying to kill us" distraction for those who are not awake yet. Like you said, let us believe it. We don't need your wisdom. ;/

reply to post by TexasTea


Ha, ok then. You got all figured out.

Edit to add: Since the thread has ultimately gone nowhere, i am taking my leave. Thank you to all the posters here. You have been... hospitable.

If anyone has any questions or rebuttals please u2u me because it is unlikely i will be checking this thread again.

Now if you will excuse me, i have more shilling to do in other threads.

Take care.

Signed,

Supreme Being of Fear and Smiles, TsukiLunar

reply to post by mus8472


So why assume the least likely possibility? A genuine contrail is quickly eliminated and disappears because the surrounding COLD air at altitude returns the heated air and water particles condensed by the heat of engines to it's previous temperature, which means no more trail.

Contrails CANNOT by their very nature expand and cover the sky because warmer air cannot remain warm when surrounded by cold air. CHEMTRAILS on the other hand linger and grow and spread because they are NOT relying on temperature for their effects, they are relying on the substances and materials contained and sprayed, which exhibit properties totally in opposition to those of contrails.

Cold air aloft is usually VERY cold, and warm exhaust trails linger only as long as it takes to return the temp's to surrounding, and that is not long. There is no way engine exhaust can linger for long, and anyone that doubts that spraying is done has not educated themselves or ar wilfully ignorant..or have some agenda. It is that obvious.

reply to post by richierich


What is a cirrus cloud?

What is it composed of?

What are jet contrails composed of??

reply to post by richierich


Because, possibly oversimplifying, it is only hot when it comes out the back of the plane's engine, this doesn't last long and is the gap you see before the trail starts, the actual trail is frozen ice crystals due to the surrounding air being minus 20 or so, or more. Once frozen, it stays frozen and the trail sits there for hours.

Go on, ridiule it because even as I type I can feel the disbelief already. (I've been in these threads too long, ha ha)

reply to post by waynos

Once frozen, it stays frozen and the trail sits there for hours.

Just to clarify, a contrail might form in conditions where the ambient Relative Humidity is too low to allow the contrail to persist.

This is the basic principle that many just can't seem to grasp (not you, of course).

SO....any given engine, and its output at any given power setting, at any given altitude and temperature will be the same. What is always different is the Relative Humidity.

NOW.....the conditions of power, altitude and temperature result in exhaust gases that contain a certain quantity of water vapor, produce in the combustion process.

IF the ambient humidity is very low, even in very cold temps, then the water vapor that is expelled from the exhaust will remain in vapor form, thus invisible to the naked eye.

IF we raise the RH (Relative Humidity) a bit, then the water vapor in the exhaust will condense out, as it is added to by the ambient water vapor in the surrounding air. But, those ice crystals will not remain, they will sublimate (technical term, some call it "evaporate", but that refers to liquid water state to vapor, not solid direct to vapor). The time for sublimation varies, depending (again) on the humidity.

NOW, if there is near saturation, or even super-saturation, of water vapor in the ambient air mass, then the contrail, once formed, WILL persist.

In all cases, the jet engine exhaust duplicates what happens in Nature, in terms of how clouds are formed. Just more dramatically, and effectively, due to the intense heat differential, and rapid addition of water vapor, or moisture.

Once formed, a contrail is indistinguishable in appearance and behavior from a cirrus cloud, at the same altitude.

The presence of clouds can help contribute to further formation of MORE clouds, as they keep having an effect on their surroundings.