Occupy Wall Street Protester Wants College Paid For Because That's What He Wants, page 12

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reply posted on 14-10-2011 @ 07:28 PM by jhn7537

Originally posted by eNaR

Originally posted by jhn7537
reply to post by eNaR

I dont expect, nor want, tuition to be free...I want to pay for my education, I just feel like the cost of a college education today is getting a little out of hand when you add up tuition, cost of living, and text books. It's just a very tough expense to take on if youre paying for it by yourself (without mommy and daddys help)....

Absolutely agree with you !

Books are outrageously priced and updated each and every year with a few added paragraphs here and there to warrant the price increase / need to use a newer version..

...if you were my son / daughter I'd be prepared to cover 4-7 years of study at no cost to you............. No I'm not adopting !

Thank god there are still good teachers out there that try to help you. In one of my economics classes they just changed texts from the 18th to 19th editions, the change in the text was literally 2 sentences (teacher told us) and told us not to buy the expensive new edition that was $230 and to try to get our hands on a 18th edition or a 17th edition... My cost for that one class went down to $12 for a used book i found on ebay....

That last part makes me laugh... But if you ever are in mood to adopt you know where to find me, jk.... Its much more fulfilling paying your own way through school anyways, work during the day, go to night school till 10pm, it takes its toll but its well worth it...or atleast i hope it is....

edit on 14-10-2011 by jhn7537 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 14-10-2011 @ 07:30 PM by daniel_g

Originally posted by CranialSponge
Wow, some of you people really don't get out much, do you ?

Here's a list of some of the countries that offer tuition-free post-secondary education to all of its citizens:

Sweden
Norway
Switzerland
France
Denmark
Argentina
Brazil
Scotland

... just to name a few.

These countries view post-secondary education as an investment in the future productivity and economic empowerment of its citizens. Post-secondary educated people have a tendency to find decent paying jobs and thus donate more to the tax revenue pool.

What a crazy concept, eh? Pfft... bunch of dummy socialists.

/sarcasm

You are ignoring the fact that being free makes it a disaster when it comes to selecting who gets education and who doesn't.

In Brazil, for example, 50% of all seats on a public university are reserved for students that had their entire education in public schools. So if you ever went to a private school (which is fairly common in Brazil), and then you applied to University of São Paulo, took the test, and scored the same as someone who never went to a private school, sorry, you don't get the seat. Suppose there was one more seat (unlikely), but a pardo (a mixed race person) scored 15% lower than you did, sorry, you still don't get the seat, the pardo does. Now suppose there is yet another seat, but you are competing with someone that came from a rich family and can afford a voluntary $100/month, guess who gets the seat?

I'm sorry, that's just not fair. But the US has a very fair system: If you study hard enough and actually deserve to get college education, you get the seat. Can't pay college? No problem, keep a high enough GPA and use financial aid. Yes, free post secondary education! But only if you really deserve it. Can't keep a high enough GPA? Then get a part time job and pay for it like I did. I finished college in 5 years, working part time, no financial aid, and 100% debt free. I don't understand why that is so hard to accomplish.

edit on 14-10-2011 by daniel_g because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 14-10-2011 @ 07:49 PM by CranialSponge

reply to post by daniel_g

Free-tuition does not equate to a completely free education in these countries. The students still have to pay for their own books, cost of living, some administrative fees, etc. They don't just get their post-secondary education handed over to them on a silver platter, like you seem to be alluding to.

As for your Brazil example, does that same situation broadly sweep across to any and all countries that provide government paid and/or partially aided tuition costs to its citizens ? No. So you're point is trivially moot.

Sorry to call you out like that, but sweeping generalizations are a pet peeve of mine.

reply posted on 14-10-2011 @ 08:21 PM by daniel_g

Originally posted by CranialSponge
reply to post by daniel_g

Free-tuition does not equate to a completely free education in these countries. The students still have to pay for their own books, cost of living, some administrative fees, etc. They don't just get their post-secondary education handed over to them on a silver platter, like you seem to be alluding to.

And what does that have to do with my point? I'm not alluding anything, I'm pointing out facts.

As for your Brazil example, does that same situation broadly sweep across to any and all countries that provide government paid and/or partially aided tuition costs to its citizens ? No. So you're point is trivially moot.

Wait, what? You really don't think you can enroll in the Karolinska Institutet by simply wanting to enroll, rigth? The problem in my example and its many variants apply to every country that offers "free" higher education to all its citizens, third world or not.

Sorry to call you out like that, but sweeping generalizations are a pet peeve of mine.

I'm not generalizing anything, there are plenty of examples out there. But it's pretty obvious I won't go through the trouble of writting about the problems in the public education system of every single country you mentioned.

edit on 14-10-2011 by daniel_g because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 14-10-2011 @ 09:34 PM by L00kingGlass

Keep in mind, it's entirely possible to pay minions to infiltrate protesters in order to marginalize them/us. Weirdo's, bums, idiots, drug addicts, etc... these are the people the MSM focus on. It's just too perfect of an opportunity to pass up.

edit on 14-10-2011 by L00kingGlass because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 14-10-2011 @ 09:40 PM by eNaR

Originally posted by jhn7537

Originally posted by eNaR

Originally posted by jhn7537
reply to post by eNaR

I dont expect, nor want, tuition to be free...I want to pay for my education, I just feel like the cost of a college education today is getting a little out of hand when you add up tuition, cost of living, and text books. It's just a very tough expense to take on if youre paying for it by yourself (without mommy and daddys help)....

Absolutely agree with you !

Books are outrageously priced and updated each and every year with a few added paragraphs here and there to warrant the price increase / need to use a newer version..

...if you were my son / daughter I'd be prepared to cover 4-7 years of study at no cost to you............. No I'm not adopting !

Thank god there are still good teachers out there that try to help you. In one of my economics classes they just changed texts from the 18th to 19th editions, the change in the text was literally 2 sentences (teacher told us) and told us not to buy the expensive new edition that was $230 and to try to get our hands on a 18th edition or a 17th edition... My cost for that one class went down to $12 for a used book i found on ebay....

That last part makes me laugh... But if you ever are in mood to adopt you know where to find me, jk.... Its much more fulfilling paying your own way through school anyways, work during the day, go to night school till 10pm, it takes its toll but its well worth it...or atleast i hope it is....
edit on 14-10-2011 by jhn7537 because: (no reason given)

...well we only have one daughter and she is indeed one lucky child. She's in her 5th year of University and now talking of taking architecture in addition to her commerce degree. Yes you are correct in saying it's more fulfilling paying your own way; that's what I did ! We're giving her the things we didn't have and making sure she'll start her working career / life debt free....

reply posted on 14-10-2011 @ 10:04 PM by NoHierarchy

reply to post by GringoViejo

So...

Some British guy without his facts straight (Japan actually has the highest corporate tax rate, PLUS American corporations ACTUALLY end up paying FAR FAR less via loopholes/tax havens/writeoffs/subsidies/etc.) corners ONE person at OWS who doesn't really have his sh** together... and SOMEHOW this is front-age news on ATS??

This is propaganda, not because of inaccuracy but because of selective negative portrayal of one person (which isn't all that negative, his stance really wasn't as bad as it was made out to be) and placed in a disproportionate spotlight to its importance within the larger movement. This kind of slant completely detracts/ignores the real concerns of the people involved as well as from the depth of the issues by interrogating a random(?) participant who didn't have his stance well thought-out. You can find this in EVERY SINGLE MOVEMENT ever to exist. This like the kind of condescending crap you see on MSM.

edit on 14-10-2011 by NoHierarchy because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 14-10-2011 @ 10:44 PM by Sirrurg

Hm, I do remember quite a few tea party folks whining about the whole tea party being called racist, because apparently there were a few people at the gatherings, that were indeed racists...

Strange how they do the exact same thing when it's the other was round.

Same goes with all the 'Nationality XYZ' are stupid-videos

edit on 14-10-2011 by Sirrurg because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 14-10-2011 @ 11:06 PM by CranialSponge

Originally posted by daniel_g

I'm not generalizing anything, there are plenty of examples out there. But it's pretty obvious I won't go through the trouble of writting about the problems in the public education system of every single country you mentioned.

Or we could sit here writing about the problems in the public education system of every single country (free or not) across the entire globe.

So you see, there's no such thing as a country that has its social/economic system aced down pat to perfection.

Thus, sitting here pointing out problems in any of them is completely useless, a waste of time, and still does not prove your argument that the American way of education is the correct one just because you think so. There are pros and cons for each. But to say with absolute certainty that one is right and the other is not, is not only ridiculous, it's a logical fallacy.

A young adult living in Switzerland getting a helping hand with their post-secondary education would argue differently.

That's my point.

reply posted on 15-10-2011 @ 12:05 AM by daniel_g

Originally posted by CranialSponge
A young adult living in Switzerland getting a helping hand with their post-secondary education would argue differently.

That's my point.

And another young adult at Switzerland not receiving the education he wants because of a failed system would take my side.

It's not hard to understand, that if post-secondary education was free for all, then most everyone would want in. The problem is easy to see if we blow up the numbers:

If 100% of the citizens of Switzerland wanted free education and the schools accepted everyone, who would pay for it? Government? But who gives the government money? Everyone! You'd end up paying for your own education.

Obviously it doesn't work that way, schools won't accept everyone, and not everyone wants to continue education. But the number of people that do want education is far greater than what the system can support without having massive increase in taxes. In the end you end up paying for someone else's education while you have to stick with a job you probably don't like.

Or we could sit here writing about the problems in the public education system of every single country (free or not) across the entire globe.

Sure, you start, I'll give you an easy one, the US. I had no problem paying my own education and finding the job I love, so lets see whats broken about it.

edit on 15-10-2011 by daniel_g because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 15-10-2011 @ 02:44 AM by masterp

When we say that we want free education, we do not mean that we want someone else to pay for us. We mean that we should not pay now, because we are starting our career and it is not possible to achieve anything when we start with a massive debt.

When we become employees, we will then pay for the education of the younger generation. So, it is not that we will not ever pay for it.

So please all you people that say education should not be free, think about what we mean by the word 'free'. The right word is actually 'delayed payment', not free.

Please think about other infrastructure, like roads, for example: we do not get in debt for using roads, do we? we only pay a small fee, and the rest is paid via taxation.

reply posted on 15-10-2011 @ 03:11 AM by cartenz

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by GringoViejo

Students are going 20 and 30 thousand in debt to be educated for jobs that aren't there! In Australia I've heard you don't have to start paying back your loan until you have a decent job for your degree (Aussie members can verify if this is accurate).

In Australia you can apply to have your education paid for via HECS (Higher Education Contribution Scheme), its capped at $50k (the average 4 year degree is around $20k). You do not have to pay back your HECS loan until you are earning over $40k a year, $40k a year is WELL below the average wage in Australia (average is $50k).

sorry if this has been answered already..

reply posted on 15-10-2011 @ 03:50 AM by Propulsion

I have a car loan that is making my life a little difficult. Can I say goodbye to that as well? How about my house morgage? How about EVERYTHING? It would all be dandy if I could just say bye bye!

reply posted on 15-10-2011 @ 04:10 AM by R3KR

Some people have great ideas for government. To bad they will never see light. If you had the perfect, easiest task for the government, they would bloat it and change it. It's literally IMPOSSIBLE for the government to do anything efficient or correct. Well, there are a few things - hypocrisy, procrastination, lying, covering their a$$'s and spending other peoples money...that they do pretty well.

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