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Whats worse? Mein Kampf or the Bible.

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posted on Oct, 13 2011 @ 08:42 PM
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Well arguably the bible has caused more deaths than Mein Kampf however it was over a much longer period and most of the assault on humanity due to the bible took place when most of the worlds population weren't educated as where in Hitlers Germany people were educated and shouldn't have been so easily led.

I'm not religious and I don't believe in the bible but I'd say that Mein Kampf is worse.




posted on Oct, 13 2011 @ 08:46 PM
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Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by ShortMemory
 


Does someone other than yourself hurt you with their belief? Does it cause you harm? Does it also cause you harm when someone has no belief in God?

No one has hurt me with their belief or non belief and until that day comes I will not persecute anyone for believing or not believing. I do not expect every one to be like me..... do you?

Why create a thread that will cause strife and or arguments? Is that your intent?

Speaking of intent..... Try taking the Bible and focusing on the words of Jesus, my friend. IMO a true believer tries to walk in his foot steps and not Hitlers. There is your difference. Why focus on the bad?


Up to about 500 years ago, and less in some places, you ran a very real risk of being put to death if you didn't believe in the bible.



posted on Oct, 13 2011 @ 09:02 PM
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Originally posted by steveknows

Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by ShortMemory
 


Does someone other than yourself hurt you with their belief? Does it cause you harm? Does it also cause you harm when someone has no belief in God?

No one has hurt me with their belief or non belief and until that day comes I will not persecute anyone for believing or not believing. I do not expect every one to be like me..... do you?

Why create a thread that will cause strife and or arguments? Is that your intent?

Speaking of intent..... Try taking the Bible and focusing on the words of Jesus, my friend. IMO a true believer tries to walk in his foot steps and not Hitlers. There is your difference. Why focus on the bad?


Up to about 500 years ago, and less in some places, you ran a very real risk of being put to death if you didn't believe in the bible.


Nope. Where and when exactly?

I have heard the same said about Islam but that is also untrue. Mohammad created a balance of peace in the town of Medina by making it mandatory that there would be no "evangelisation" of the Jews & Christians there by his followers. They all would live in peace and security. It worked for a while too.

Not that I am a Muslim, I am a Cristian (born again type). I just think that blaming wars on the peace keepers, the unarmed and the conscientious objectors is farcical.



edit on 13/10/2011 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 13 2011 @ 09:10 PM
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Christianity is based on faith. Reason has no place in it. I know of no argument that can resolve this.

I can speculate though, that when the Nazi's were being bombed and feared for their lives, they weren't calling on Hitler. Of course, I could be wrong, but like I said it's speculation.

Those murderers that you are calling Christians never knew Jesus, and hence are not Christians, for if they were, they would have followed his teachings. Even today many claim to be Christians, and are not. Their actions are ascribed falsely to Christian beliefs, and anyone who has read The New Testament can PLAINLY see this.

When you face your death; will you call out to Hitler? Time will tell...



posted on Oct, 13 2011 @ 09:13 PM
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Originally posted by chr0naut

Originally posted by steveknows

Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by ShortMemory
 


Does someone other than yourself hurt you with their belief? Does it cause you harm? Does it also cause you harm when someone has no belief in God?

No one has hurt me with their belief or non belief and until that day comes I will not persecute anyone for believing or not believing. I do not expect every one to be like me..... do you?

Why create a thread that will cause strife and or arguments? Is that your intent?

Speaking of intent..... Try taking the Bible and focusing on the words of Jesus, my friend. IMO a true believer tries to walk in his foot steps and not Hitlers. There is your difference. Why focus on the bad?


Up to about 500 years ago, and less in some places, you ran a very real risk of being put to death if you didn't believe in the bible.


Nope. Where and when exactly?

I have heard the same said about Islam but that is also untrue. Mohammed created a balance of peace in the town of Medina by making it mandatory that there would be no "evangelisation" of the Jews & Christians there by his followers. They all would live in peace and security. It worked for a while too.



Hmmm. How about the crusades and the witch persecution? And don't say the witch persecutions had nothing to do with the bible because the church made it a mission to stamp out paganism and though most of the "witches" were actually christian it was midwives and anyone really who put there faith in medicines and technical inovation who were put to death. Also it was a property grab for the church. This is documanted history and christians can deny it all they want but they're just lying to themselves.

The church and therefore the bible has to carry the guilt for the murder of milions regardless how much it tries to deny it.



posted on Oct, 13 2011 @ 09:26 PM
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reply to post by steveknows
 

The "Church" has done many things in this world that proved them as Non-Christian. These people were either uneducated in the teachings, or seriously deranged. It is things like this that turn others from Christ, but these murderers weren't Christian at all. Read The New Testament; you'll see...



posted on Oct, 13 2011 @ 10:27 PM
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reply to post by ShortMemory
 


So what are you trying to get across? That the Bible has evil in it worse than Mein Kampf? Do you not read the verse correctly? Do you not understand that was the laws under the old covenant of sin and death? It said those who practiced evil, that is those who are against our Heavenly Father and His commandments were punished. You should read the Scriptures in their original writing first to get a real understanding about what your quoting. First off, 'the LORD' is a pagan title that replaces the tetragrammaton( Yahuwah or יהוה. ) Next, 'god' is a ancient name of a Syrian or Canaanite deity spelled 'Gad' or "Gawd", and represents the deity of fortune or luck.

Now once you get through that, then hear this. Yahuwah dont play around or mess around with anyone, He doesnt do no shabby works. When He says He will punish those who sin, He means it. Christians pray to a fake created deity of fortune (god) who is under the false man made name Jesus or Zeus (Je-zeus, also the 'sus' which comes from latin means pig/swine), that made a worldwide false idea that our Creator and Heavenly Father is effeminate, weak and compromising like His son. He punished those of Sodom and Gommorah for their wickedness by destroying them, as like is happening today all over the world a worldwide Sodom. He punished the world with a worldwide flood. And many times in Scripture Yahuwah destroyed men, women, and children because they disobeyed His commandments. And the time of final judgment is soon, and those who deny that Yahuwshuwah is the Messiah, will be cast into eternal fire. Do you think He's gonna be any different now than what He was then? He never changes, you have been forewarned.

Where do you think Hitler got the ideas of Mein Kampf? He knew of the Bible, and if he was under the Masonic/illuminati leadership, like the religions of the world, he understood what was written in there and used it to his own advantage.

So if you believe that the Scriptures are written by inspired men of old, through the set apart spirit of Yahuwah, then you will also believe that their is a price for those who disobey. Yahuwah dont mess around, He will show you whos boss, and dont forget it.

Your carnal understanding is limited to what is written there. Instead of blaspheming the Scriptures, maybe try to understand why it was written that way? Or why your here rather?

edit on 13-10-2011 by Seektruthalways1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 13 2011 @ 11:43 PM
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Which is worse?

Well in terms of number of deaths that followed, and how inhumane those deaths were, then the bible is certainly worse.

But the bible has been read by many more around the world and throughout history, so that would skew the stats a bit.



posted on Oct, 13 2011 @ 11:49 PM
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Originally posted by visualmiscreant
reply to post by steveknows
 

The "Church" has done many things in this world that proved them as Non-Christian. These people were either uneducated in the teachings, or seriously deranged. It is things like this that turn others from Christ, but these murderers weren't Christian at all. Read The New Testament; you'll see...


Blah blah blah. It was done by the Church in the name of the church. Murders at the hands of an institution which followed Christ, It was Christians.



posted on Oct, 13 2011 @ 11:50 PM
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reply to post by steveknows
 


Yeah I'd much rather die in a gas chamber than slowly burn to death at the stake.

The burning mentioned in the bible I think referred to the act of melting lead then pouring it down their throat, not bounding them to the stake, but much of that was caused by the bible.



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 12:07 AM
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Originally posted by visualmiscreant
Christianity is based on faith. Reason has no place in it. I know of no argument that can resolve this.

I can speculate though, that when the Nazi's were being bombed and feared for their lives, they weren't calling on Hitler. Of course, I could be wrong, but like I said it's speculation.

Those murderers that you are calling Christians never knew Jesus, and hence are not Christians, for if they were, they would have followed his teachings. Even today many claim to be Christians, and are not. Their actions are ascribed falsely to Christian beliefs, and anyone who has read The New Testament can PLAINLY see this.

When you face your death; will you call out to Hitler? Time will tell...


That might be because those being bombed weren't, for the most part, Nazis. Nazis were national socialists which was an extreme political party and most Germans weren't members.

In fact whenever the Nazis did something against the Geneva convention the Wehrmacht ( combined German forces) high command put in an official protest but couldn't contol what their men did at the forcing of the Nazis.

Nope. Those being bombed were Christians.
edit on 14-10-2011 by steveknows because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 01:07 AM
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Originally posted by polarwarrior
reply to post by steveknows
 


Yeah I'd much rather die in a gas chamber than slowly burn to death at the stake.

The burning mentioned in the bible I think referred to the act of melting lead then pouring it down their throat, not bounding them to the stake, but much of that was caused by the bible.


No the burning mentioned in the bible did not refer to pouring molten lead down someone's throat.

You made that up and wrote it, therefore I blame you for every death where something hot was poured down someone's throat.

(Sorry, just using your own logic).

The Bible has accounts of violence and murder. So do many books. Harry Potter has many but you have to admit it hasn't to my knowledge prompted anyone to kill anyone.

The overall theme of the Bible is the complete antithesis of murder and mayhem.

One of the principal rules that the Bible speaks of is "Thou shalt not kill".

Here's a concept for you: The people who kill, and claim some sort of support for their actions from the Bible, have probably not read the Bible in its entirety and are definitely and provably operating contrary to its principles.

You are blaming on the Bible, things it plainly speaks against. It is that simple. The error in understanding is yours.

edit on 14/10/2011 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 01:15 AM
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Originally posted by chr0naut
No the burning mentioned in the bible did not refer to pouring molten lead down someone's throat.



According to the Talmud, the “burning” mentioned in the Bible was done by melting lead and pouring it down the convicted person’s throat, causing immediate death.

Death by Burning


You made that up and wrote it,


I wrote the Talmud? I don't remember doing that. I don't remember writing that wiki article either.


therefore I blame you for every death where something hot was poured down someone's throat.


Your a proven liar, therefore I blame you for every lie.

(Sorry, just using your own logic).



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 01:33 AM
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Originally posted by steveknows

Originally posted by visualmiscreant
reply to post by steveknows
 

The "Church" has done many things in this world that proved them as Non-Christian. These people were either uneducated in the teachings, or seriously deranged. It is things like this that turn others from Christ, but these murderers weren't Christian at all. Read The New Testament; you'll see...


Blah blah blah. It was done by the Church in the name of the church. Murders at the hands of an institution which followed Christ, It was Christians.


You have no faith, and you deny reason. Whatever guy. Have a blessed life...



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 01:35 AM
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i cant believe theists are still trying to argue their point
its written in the bible
hitler was a chirstian doing what his god asked of him
nothing more nothing less



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 01:38 AM
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reply to post by chr0naut
 


Ah I see you edited your post to add more, much of it I agree with.


The Bible has accounts of violence and murder. So do many books. Harry Potter has many but you have to admit it hasn't to my knowledge prompted anyone to kill anyone.


The difference being that harry potter fans know its a fictional book. Bible bashers take it as historical fact and the word of the lord.



The overall theme of the Bible is the complete antithesis of murder and mayhem.


Keyword there being "overall", you don't deny its violent sections exist.



You are blaming on the Bible, things it plainly speaks against. It is that simple. The error in understanding is yours


The contradiction is in the bible, that's where the error is. It also condones such things, when people are faced with a contradiction they follow the passages they find meaning in and feel are applicable to their situation. If you have chosen to give the peaceful parts more importance then thats your interpretation, and its a good one, but many in history have not, they have used certain passages to justify atrocities. It is these sections I have a problem with, many believers don't ignore parts of "the word of the Lord" based on their own rationality and moral choice. I think they should learn to think for themselves and we wouldn't have so many problems from it.




edit on 14-10-2011 by polarwarrior because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 01:49 AM
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Originally posted by polarwarrior

Originally posted by chr0naut
No the burning mentioned in the bible did not refer to pouring molten lead down someone's throat.



According to the Talmud, the “burning” mentioned in the Bible was done by melting lead and pouring it down the convicted person’s throat, causing immediate death.

Death by Burning


You made that up and wrote it,


I wrote the Talmud? I don't remember doing that. I don't remember writing that wiki article either.


therefore I blame you for every death where something hot was poured down someone's throat.


Your a proven liar, therefore I blame you for every lie.

(Sorry, just using your own logic).



You are aware that the Talmud is a different set of books to the Torah? The Torah is included in the Bible as its "Old Testamant" the Talmud is not.

The Torah, upon which the Old Testament of Bible is based, is ancient and was completed at least 400 years BCE.

The Talmud (Mishnah component) was not even penned until more than 1000 years after the close of the Torah. The Gemara is even more recent (by hundreds of years).

Christianity had been in existence 200 years (with an established Bible canon) before the earliest (Mishnah) section of the Talmud was written. The Talmud does not equal the Bible, not even close.

edit on 14/10/2011 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 02:38 AM
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reply to post by chr0naut
 



You are aware that the Talmud is a different set of books to the Torah? The Torah is included in the Bible as its "Old Testamant" the Talmud is not.


What are you on about? Where did you get the idea that they were the same? Of course their different, nobody is disputing that.

My post you quoted was in reply to your accusation that I made up the part about the burning being due to molten lead poured down their throats, but I did not make that up, end of story.


edit on 14-10-2011 by polarwarrior because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 03:26 AM
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Originally posted by polarwarrior
reply to post by chr0naut
 



You are aware that the Talmud is a different set of books to the Torah? The Torah is included in the Bible as its "Old Testamant" the Talmud is not.


What are you on about? Where did you get the idea that they were the same? Of course their different, nobody is disputing that.

My post you quoted was in reply to your accusation that I made up the part about the burning being due to molten lead poured down their throats, but I did not make that up, end of story.


edit on 14-10-2011 by polarwarrior because: (no reason given)


The OP was about the relative moral debt borne by the Bible vs Mein Kampf.

Yet you were quoting the Talmud as if it was relevant to the discussion.



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 04:21 AM
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Here's my take, and from what I'm beginning to see... I might as well start talking to see if any one gets or has the same ideals. I am pagan following my own path which started from Wicca. I have been diving very deep into spirituality, since then I've taken a holy crap so to speak, #1 and most important, humans are religious animals, and will do anything for satisfaction. #2 the whole speall is very confusing, and it does not help that there really is no "solid" evidence in the public's hands. #3 the bible appears to be several holy texts overlapped and twisted into one resulting into a brilliant masterpiece trying to speak of thin air by many authors to serve fashion and keep to public interests. I would say that Hitler and his Mein Kampf was way more humane then what the bible speaks of. People think of flood and most think water, well in the pagan world, water is emotion, look at the emotional turmoil and emotional suppression we have now, fear and confusion running rampant. Grab a (fire is passion) passionate group be it small or large like society, poke at the emotions and eventually you have blood (air) - illogical action or war, why do the elites love war? Money - right? Angels? I say they were priests, or any one of that nature. Could the elites of then been god(s)? Education has always been in the hands of the wealthy, and if I was flea bitten and dumb, some one educated would be like a god to me... Hitler killed people right off so to speak, events in the bible tortured, drove people insane, then killed them over time. The book itself has done so as well. I'd rather die from Hitler.



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