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You are ABSURD!

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posted on Oct, 22 2011 @ 08:12 PM
Is there still hope for a better world?

What, do you not think and feel and know yourself, when you look deep within, as an utterly extraorinary creation capable of having an impact and putting a dent in the absurdity of the world around you, starting with your world, which is in many ways discovered through your own mutual participation in the relativity of human being or the "brotherhood of man"? Evils of the world got you down? Hey, here's an idea, what not try to become the very solution to the problem, by taking a stand on behalf of your fellow man in relation to the whole damn thing, because it is after all the whole thing entirely absurd to begin with and therefore not based in reality, or in the real world as it is (unconditioned ground of all being and becoming). We can reverse the arrow here, of time and history, by simply first having the courage to take the damn PLANK out of our OWN eye, and then, seeing clearly, help take the splinter from our brothers eye in the space of unconditional love. Why not be the omegapoint of the cosmogensis of the noosphere, by working hard to be your truest and most authentic self, relative to yourself, others, and in relation to the world at large? Eventually, once there are enough of us, enough Jesuses-in-the-mental-ward, then by God, the absurdity of the world will come to light, and what people used to think they could get away with or evade, will no longer be possible in the face of the truth and the reality come to light.

Why not just "deep six" "Laviathan" and remain firmly rooted here on and in "terra firma", taking a stand and in so doing, pump the absurdity right out of the system, starting with our own life's and that of the lives of everyone your life touches and intersects by extension, and then, that which is not in our immediate experience, will also eventually be transformed provided we make it our first things first priority, to be helpful to others wherever possible, not as "charity" but in a true spirit of love and understanding. Why not?

It would be absurd not to, don't you see, and you call me a "dreamer"! Ha. I'm just being entirely reasonable, and practical, even if that means that it's neccessary to be unreasonably reasonable and imminently practical.

Principals must be proven right by their understanding and application.

This is right.

It needn't even be thought about rationally in the tradtional sense, since it is the knowledge gained by experience, which is the beginning of real knowledge and real wisdom, and therefore real and authentic power, the power to change worlds, starting with our own and that formed by our own human relationships, both far and wide and those near and dear to us.

Happy grokking!



edit on 22-10-2011 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 23 2011 @ 06:31 PM
I had to validate this hypothesis, so I took it to my friend Johnny the rock mason, who dropped by for a visit, and strangely, he'd gone to church today (unheard of in my experience of him), and he seemed himself to have already undergone a bit of a transformation in terms of his sense of self and of being authentically himself, and happy with himself and his life. He'd broken up with his GF not so long ago, and seemed to have found himself again. It was refreshing. So anyway, we talk about all kinds of interesting things, as friends do, and so I ran him quickly through the kinds of things we've explored in this thread, and he wholeheartedly agreed, that there's something substantial, informative and real, that we've all been missing, due to our own absurdities and misconceptions about ourselves, others and the world around us. He also agreed that the problems of the world are all built upon one variation or another of the same absurdity. He pointed out that the "sermon" today at the church he went to (which was Catholic of all things, in accordance with his heritage), was about the holding of hatred towards others, and how we must change the frame to that of the point of view of the forgiving person of Christ, and in so doing, replace hatred with love, in the same wa that Jesus did, which again, makes perfect rational sense, to love others as our authentic self, as we are already loved, as the resolution to common problem of our existence as human beings. So there the same theme surfaces again and It's a continuance, the 5th C, by divine proportion and extension, eminating through us and from our own felt experience of love, to others, the world and to God within which everything is already perfect whole and complete (integrity) We know this love, and have felt it before, and we can again. We were after all, made for this love, to know it as we are known by it, to express it to others, and recieve it from them by allowing them to express it to us, by being present to them, as ourselves in self remembrance and forgetting.

So I mentioned this thread and the thesis I was putting forward here for consumption, and ran a few things by him just to make sure they really did "grok" and were reasonable, no matter how unreasonably reasonable they might appear as an ideal, and the hypothesis held water, it was entirely congruent with his own experience, that of becoming true to himself (he'd quit smoking since I last saw him a few weeks ago), there's new life that is always possible, he agreed, and it's up to us to choose real life, and real love and self expression, as intended, "so that we can get closer to God " (Johnny) and to ourselves as we are (Rob).

He said, and I just saw him off ten minutes ago, as a summation

"The fool who knows he's a fool is infinitely wisser than the (self professed) wise man who thinks he wise."

I've touched on these ideas with him before, and that time, what occured to him (he's an artist) was to create for himself a personal slogan and then put it on T-shirts, and it was, get this

"Authentic Pseudo Jamino (his last name).

The joke's on YOU!"

So I knew that he "grokked" it even then, or at least until he started talking about SELLING the t-shirts to other people and charging $59.95/shirt, and then coming up with a follow up encore product release called

"TRUE Authentic Pseudo Jamino, The Jokes on You!" for which he would charge $159.95!

People. They surprise us. We can surprise ourselves and they can suprise us with the same unsurpassed genius, and with interesting and unique points of view, however absurd on the one hand, and however true and real on the other.

It is worth sharing ourselves with them, and being fully present to them, and really listening to them, authentically, and without judgement; to seek first to understand, and then to be understood. The reward could be immense, and perhaps there is nothing else that is more important.

We all need each other. We are each other's salvation don't you see?

Go then, to your people, and explore a new domain of authenticity, and where needed authentic inauthenticity, and heal the wounds of the world, because what you do unto the least of my brothers and sisters you it also to me and the one who sent me, and vice versa, but most importantly, you do it for you and for those you love, which at the most fundamenal level must include everyone at some level, or it's not love (if on;y reserved for those we love), it MUST extend further, if not all the way, and there's one among us who went the distance.

"We are either part of the solution or the problem."
~Marshall McLuhan

What are we to do?

Run away?

Or grow in the light of life, and the hope of love made known and experienced?

Don't be absurd!

posted on Oct, 25 2011 @ 08:52 PM
The 5C's of Life Transformation

I do hope someone takes up this "movement", and gives is a whirl, because it goes so far so fast once begun and then extended in continuance through your own human network.

It's like putting the efficacy of love as a nurturing, evolutionary growth process, to the test, by experiment, something ATS people ought to find intriguing at the very least.

Things like this ought not die on the vine at the critical point of the 5th C - Continuance, imho.

Plus, as an added bonus, it might cause the people around you to become much easier to live with and be around, although it's vitally important to remember that you are at cause in the whole affair, by the new frame of reference you are generating for yourself, relative to them.

I wish someone would ask a question about this process.. if you had any idea what happens when this is done, you would be astonished, and the need is so great, both for us and for others.

If someone told you they had the tool of creation and that you could appropriate it and wield it for free, requiring only courage as the courage to be real (true to yourself), would you want to know about it and try it out? Why not?

edit on 25-10-2011 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 26 2011 @ 03:39 PM
For those willing and courageous enough to try to work the 5C's within the framework of their human interactions and relationships, I offer this as a simple guide.

The prayer of St. Francis

Lord, make me an instrument of your peace,
Where there is hatred, let me sow love;
where there is injury, pardon;
where there is doubt, faith;
where there is despair, hope;
where there is darkness, light;
where there is sadness, joy;

O Divine Master, grant that I may NOT so much seek to be consoled, as to console;
to be understood as to understand;
to be loved as to love.

For it is in giving that we receive;
it is in pardoning that we are pardoned;
and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life.

To which I might add "that where I was absurd, I might be real and authentic."

In spite of the impression that no one is interested, I will nevertheless come back and offer an example of what the practical application of the 5 C's looks like, so that you might have an experience of the rebirth of love where there was enmity and ignorance, and/or all manner of incivility or injustice, however big or small. Such an event will most certainly have to occur first, therefore, within our own family of origin (egad!).

edit on 26-10-2011 by NewAgeMan because: edit

posted on Oct, 26 2011 @ 10:55 PM

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
It is worth sharing ourselves with them, and being fully present to them, and really listening to them, authentically, and without judgement; to seek first to understand, and then to be understood. The reward could be immense, and perhaps there is nothing else that is more important.

We all need each other. We are each other's salvation don't you see?

Go then, to your people, and explore a new domain of authenticity, and where needed authentic inauthenticity, and heal the wounds of the world, because what you do unto the least of my brothers and sisters you it also to me and the one who sent me, and vice versa, but most importantly

Please ignore the underlined, since we need nothing and no other motivation, that our own already present love that is us, and it sounds too Christ-complexey (if you will), and narcissistic, and I don't like it - "Jury, please erase the record."

We all know our own selves, as we really are, or at least as we are getting to know ourselves, in particular as we occur in the world, as we show up, both to ourselves and as reflected to others and back by others, but I don't want for a moment to give anyone the impression here that I've even really begun to deal with and face MY OWN absurdities of the OP. So no, I'm not playing the ultimate narcissist here, claiming to be "healed" while everyone ELSE are sick and refuse to get well! (that's funny). No we're all a little off, and quite absurd in a whole host of areas, most born of ridiculous fears left over from childhood or a life "gone bad". Me as much as anyone! (obviously!). I am prepared however to get clear about it, and change myself, somehow by the grace of God if need be! (maybe I am that absurd!).

And since no one seems willing to play the Game of Life Transformation with me (the 5 C thing), then after one more post, I'd like to close off here with a letter to my father Donald (illustrating the 5C's), and then finally, with a declaration to you, as to who I am choosing to be and to beome (the 5th C).

After that, the thread can die, or be set adrift in the noosphere, and then I will return to the thread, only at six month intervals, to let you know about my progress, in working to be truer to myself, and allowing my gifts and my light or brightness, to really shine in the world, because it's important, to complete the circle of the challenging 5th C of the 5 C's (Continuance), and then there is, at last, the FRUIT, the blessed FRUIT of this process, realized the very moment we throw ourselves into the work, and what arises then from there yes CAN move a whole mountain, a whole life and many lives and generations of folly and absurdity. So it's an honor and a priviledge then, and one capable of raising the roof by heroic proportions, even if only at the very least in our OWN life (which MATTERS) and the lives of others (ALSO MATTER). So it's important stuff then, and that's why I've been rambling on breathlessly about it. It's the "instrument" of God's love in the word, the energies of love harnessed for God (you guys grok this I'm sure of it), something akin to fire, rediscovered (now I'm getting a little carried away perhaps..? who cares!)

So in truth, while it's primary attention has been to be most helpful to others, this thread is as much for me as for anyone, to help me get to where I want to be, for me as who and what I really am or am choosing to be (said like a kid), and if in the process, it helps another, namely YOU yourself who are reading this all the better (you can join the party, which goes on..)

That said, please don't just poke into this thread and go - oh hey yea, I'm absurd too almost in the same way, or I can relate to that, although I'll admit that's the premise of the OP, to draw you in - say "cool, we're both absurd".
and then go on your merry way, unimpacted. Of course I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings unintentionally (without awareness) either, this isn't sadistic! Bwoohaha - I'll terrify them and hurt them with their OWN absurdities (rubbing hands and hobbling away in glee). That's absurd, and not at all who I am or what I'm about.

So that wasn't really what I had in mind with the OP. It was more - here I am taking responsibility for my absurdity on MY end, knowing of course full well that everyone has plenty on their end also, but you can't ask people to let go of that stuff, and yet there ARE loving ways of loosening the ties that bind us and constrain us, from being the truest and best of who and what we are, both to and for ourselves and others, and most importantly, who we wish to BECOME, and ought to be, happy, fulfilled, challanged, helpful, more social, familial, the works, engaged in life, even in spite of the larger absurdities of the world, perhaps even as an attempt, however large or small, to put a dent in it, to have an impact, to stand right up to it, and yank upon it's beard and say, oh yeah, you call yourself REALITY?! only to have some fluff in your hand floating away, the whole thing dissolved in the light of truth and the light and life, namely your own, lived to the very full and then to overFLOWING! [please for the love of God forgive me for that run-on sentence?!]
Yes, that kind of life, the kind few of us enjoy any more, for no reason at all, except that we were deluded, insane, and yes utterly absurd and ridiculous, and since I'm not excluding myself from that group, and because neither is it an "exclusive club" one really wants to belong to in eternity - it represents a life which is the REAL THING (and ever moreso!!!). Life as it was meant to be lived! After all, who would want to live into and out of, anything less? THAT'S absurd, and I KNOW it's something many many of us, if not all of us share, since we're all surely a work in progress, and wanting to be whole (perfect).

I am of course here talking about our spiritual and pschological growth, as causative and formative, and not first setting our heart on economic progress, while losing the whole damn thing in the process, talk about ABSURD!

edit on 26-10-2011 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 06:02 PM
Possibly the most interesting and inspiring thread I've read on ATS ever. And I've been visiting this site for a long time almost every day.

I can also relate to your original post. Very well written. OP, you might be absurd, but aren't we all? I think your words are words of reason in a world of absurdity. Maybe you're not as absurd as you like to think ? ;-)

Thank you for this thread.

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 06:02 PM
Firefox crashed and double posted. Delete please

edit on 1/11/11 by Pointofview because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 06:10 PM
reply to post by NewAgeMan

Are you writing about yourself? A letter to yourself? I am curious.

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 06:53 PM
reply to post by caladonea

Yes, as I pointed out in a post shortly after the OP, it was a confession, and my effort to take responsibility for my own absurdity on my end. At the same time, since most people's life story, drama, and absurdities are issues they are working on as a work in progress, it's an attempt to be helpful to others, at the same time.

Of course we're all absurd and ridiculous in our own ways, but it's not the least helpful to start judging others and taking their inventory, so all I can do is to work to improve things here on my end, on "my side of the street" so to speak, in the hope that others in seeing my effort, and through my (our) sharing, might also embark on a path to self realization and life transformation, both for themselves and by extension those who their life touches or intersects.

The idea here is to generate a clearing, or open up a gateway access point, both for myself and others, so that we might enjoy a life lived more fully by a created (chosen) self who is more fully self expressed as we really are, authentically, and the method I am using is the 5C's of Life Transformation

Confidence - winning the other person's
Confession - my own
Conviction - the unsuing contemplation and realization/recognition of the other's own absurdity
Conversion - the lifting away of burdens and the sudden, penetrating insight gained as a result, generating a new understanding and a new way of life, in mutuality
Continuance - sticking with it, and remaining comitted to the process of effectively germinating the new life, for both parties, in mutuality, or if "I'm done", to remain firmly comitted to others successful life transformation.

I should point out that I'm not nearly as absurd as I was when I made the OP, and have already made much progress in all areas, and so in that way, this thread has served as a therapautic process, even if only for me as a starting point, thus making me more helpful, both to myself and by extension others.

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 07:20 PM
reply to post by NewAgeMan

Thanks for answering my questions.

I have a suggestion too that will help people....forgive yourself.

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 07:33 PM
reply to post by caladonea

I am forgiven.

It's hard to know precisely what to forgive ourselves FOR however, until we are willing to conduct a searching and fearless moral inventory, to have the courage to turn, and bring to awareness the entire depth and breadth of our past self, but in the space of absolute, unconditional love, this is possible.

Often the other person can't do it alone, and they may need us to function as that space of unconditional love, so the idea here is when they see us doing it, in relation to them, having forgiven ourselves, but now asking for them to forgive us in any area where we've been at fault (and letting them know they are wholly forgiven by us), they too can enjoy a clearing (unconditionally ie: they don't have to do anything) and in the prcoess, work with us to create a whole new basis for our relationship, moving forward, based on who we are choosing to be and how we are wanting to show up in the world. There's a test in other words, to determine how well we've done the work for ourselves and that's when we can take this to others using the 5C's of Life Transformation as described.

"I forgive me" is powerful, but "I forgive you and ask you to forgive me" is infinitely moreso, because in that light of two or more, there's no witholding of the love which makes this all possible, and no telling how far the light can go..

Also, for the narcissisist, self-forgiveness and self love, in islolation, may be meaningless, if the same individual as a "lone ranger" continues to hold, in their heart of hearts, resentment towards others (talk about absurd!).

We are social beings, and no one is an island unto themselves, no the whole context of who we are and are becoming is applied and measured within the contextual framework of the "relativity of human being", that's where the rubber really meets the road and goes places far and wide.

"Forgive us our tresspasses AS we forgive those who tresspass against us."

The 12 Steps

1: We admitted we were powerless over alcohol (insert absurdity here)--that our lives had become unmanageable.
2: Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3: Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
4: Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5: Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6: Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7: Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
8: Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9: Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10: Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
11: Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God, as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
12: Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics (others), and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

Of course we don't need to be alchoholic or drug addicted to work these steps..

Best Regards,


edit on 1-11-2011 by NewAgeMan because: edit

posted on Nov, 1 2011 @ 08:52 PM

The unexamined life is not worth living.

~ Socrates, in Plato, Dialogues, Apology
Greek philosopher in Athens (469 BC - 399 BC)

Since some interest has been expressed by others, at some point (i'm busier now caring for myself), I would like to show how this works within the larger framework of the rest of the world, and how you really are the light of the world and the salt of the earth, and if like many your salt has lost it's "saltiness", fear not, there is passion in you it never died and just needed to be recovered, which is what this thread is for, because I can't love me without also loving you whoever you are dear reader. At some point, we must take a stand for our fellow man, but it's no good unless it functions as a movement of the power of love, creating not dependancy or co-dependancy, but empowerment, to the nth degree, because friends, the human being (namely you) is the most powerful thing for transforming this world, in the world. If you can learn how to sit on the rock of all ages and be present (using the Socratic method) to others in the space of unconditional love, then look out! - 'cause you aint seen nuthin yet (until you try this, until you grok of it most fully and then put it into practice where principals must be proven right by their application).

Best Regards,


posted on Nov, 2 2011 @ 06:29 PM

More on the Recovery of the Human Being - Overcoming Self Will Run Riot (the AA Methodology)

My old "fisherman" counsellor sponsor guy Don who I used to drive down to Toronto to visit, he would say (and my issue wasn't alchoholism, but most assuredly, self-will run riot and a highly addictive personality style prone almost to manic depression) Don would say that the crux of our problem is what he called

Our First Care ("eh" he'd say eh at the end if it was important!) and then he'd laugh a bit for reasons at the time that were entirely and utterly inexplicable to me

But before he filled me in on what that meant, he assured me that the "world" as I percieve it, meaning for the most part the human world of images and comparisons and all manner of judgements however overt or subtle, didn't really care about me, and that I was running myself raged to win its approval, thinking that my "self" could achieve the glory of recognition even fame and fortune if possible. He said "the world don't care".

Don then pointed out that my "first care" about that non-existent concern or care, was what was driving the wheel of my incessant dissatisfaction, and into the next cycle of an addictive process, he even took the time to illustrate this by drawing out a circle, and putting a dot on it and calling that "my first care"! We all know where the cycle of addition leads, ultimately circling back around in remorse, guilt and shame and the pledge to do better and get it right from now on, only to be reignited again with that "first care" (always working itself into a resentment of some kind) over a non-existant "care of the world".

Don would of course be smirking while filling me in on this little secret, possessing as he already did the humor of understanding regarding this issue of

Care / Concern (about self in relation to others and "the world")

"I got the don't care" Don would say, chuckling, his eyes twinkling, and his genuine mirth and compassion, even grace, beaming at me (at first to my inexplicable incomprehension, wondering if he might be insane!).

Although I think it's already been realized in this thread, the self awareness of the carefree (and compassion filled) experience of fifth-dimensional existence, or the absolute freedom and liberation to be authentically self expressed, and thus fully recovered, as we really are, restored - nevertheless, because we are typically slow to "grok" this stuff, and it took me a while for me to figure out just what the heck Don was talking about when he was sharing this wisdom and knowledge with me, I would like to produce for your consideration and review the "How It Works" segment of the AA wisdom teaching for the recovery and restoration of the human being.

Wherever you see the world alchohol, just sub in absurdity, and all of our issues and our problems, being rooted as they are in ignorance (what we didn't even know), are absurd. There is no need here to create a massive list of all your character defects and shortcomings, unless you want to get really serious about making a "searching and fearless moral inventory".

I am inserting at the appropriate point in the 12 steps, the 5C's, which actually gave birth to the steps in the revival and recovery movement called "The Oxford Group" which preceeded and catalyzed the AA movement (at one point I was on a hobby-kick researching the roots and origins of the AA movement, as part of my unrelenting pursuit of "the truth").

Often people can't "connect the dots" and make the types of leaps of logic I've been assuming they can throughout this thread, so I'm going to "Continue" (5th C) to present the info for your grokking enjoyment and consumption, and then at some point, you will definitely "grok" the big picture, and then the light will dawn and you'll "get" the "don't care" and the "humor of understanding" which in case you didn't notice has been lurking under the surface here all along, in self recognition, at your own absurdity.

This thread is either somewhat troubling to you, making you want to scorn me, or, if you give me the benefit of the doubt and look again with an open mind free of contempt prior to investigation, perhaps you might discover yourself laughing out loud to no end, now reclaimed and recovered and brought out into the light of life (the truth that sets us free).

How It Works (from the "Big Book" of AA)

“Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest.

Our stories disclose in a general way what we used to be like, what happened, and what we are like now. If you have decided you want what we have and are willing to go to any length to get it — then you are ready to take certain steps.

At some of these we balked. thought we could find an easier, softer way. But we could not. With all the earnestness at our command, we beg of you to be fearless and thorough from the very start. Some of us have tried to hold on to our old ideas and the result was nil until we let go absolutely.

Remember that we deal with alcohol — cunning, baffling, powerful! Without help it is too much for us. But there is One who has all power — that One is God. May you find Him now!

Half measures availed us nothing. We stood at the turning point. we asked His protection and care with complete abandon.

Here are the steps we took, which are suggested as a program of recovery:

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol — that our lives had become unmanageable.

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

The 5C's of Life Transformation

1) Confidence - winning the other person's
2) Confession - my own, to them
3) Conviction - the unsuing contemplation and realization/recognition of the other's own absurdity from their own perspective, recognizing your "clearing" with regards to your own causing them to "look within" and see by the light of loving awareness (yours in relation to them, and them joining you in it by the light of two or more)
4) Conversion - the lifting away of their burdens and the sudden, penetrating insight gained as a result of their own reciprocal sharing in kind (although not required of them), generating a new understanding and a new way of life, in mutuality (the splinter having been pulled from your brothers eye, having first removed the plank in your own)
5) Continuance - sticking with it, and with them, and remaining comitted to maintaining and allow the process of the germination and blooming of the new life, for both parties, in mutuality, or if "I'm done", to remain firmly comitted to others successful life transformation.

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

Many of us exclaimed, "What an order! I can't go through with it." Do not be discouraged. No one among us has been able to maintain anything like perfect adherence to these principles. We are not saints. The point is, that we are willing to grow along spiritual lines. The principles we have set down are guides to progress. We claim spiritual progress rather than spiritual perfection.

Our description of the alcoholic, the chapter to the agnostic, and our personal adventure before and after make clear three pertinent ideas:

a) That we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives.

b) That probably no human power could have relieved our alcoholism.

c) That God could and would if He were sought.

Being convinced, we were at Step Three, which is that we decided to turn our will and our life over to God as we understood Him. Just what do we mean by that, and just what do we do?

The first requirement is that we be convinced that any life run on self-will can hardly be a success. On that basis we are almost always in collision with something or somebody, even though our motives are good. Most people try to live by self-propulsion. Each person is like an actor who wants to run the whole show; is forever trying to arrange the lights, the ballet, the scenery and the rest of the players in his own way. If his arrangements would only stay put, if only people would do as he wished, the show would be great. Everybody, including himself, would be pleased. Life would be wonderful. In trying to make these arrangements our actor may sometimes be quite virtuous. He may be kind, considerate, patient, generous; even modest and self- sacrificing. On the other hand, he may be mean, egotistical, selfish and dishonest. But, as with most humans, he is more likely to have varied traits.

What usually happens? The show doesn't come off very well. He begins to think life doesn't treat him right. He decides to exert himself more. He becomes, on the next occasion, still more demanding or gracious, as the case may be. Still the play does not suit him. Admitting he may be somewhat at fault, he is sure that other people are more to blame. He becomes angry, indignant, self-pitying. What is his basic trouble? Is he not really a self-seeker even when trying to be kind? Is he not a victim of the delusion that he can wrest satisfaction and happiness out of this world if he only manages well? Is it not evident to all the rest of the players that these are the things he wants? And do not his actions make each of them wish to retaliate, snatching all they can get out of the show? Is he not, even in his best moments, a producer of confusion rather than harmony?

Our actor is self-centered — ego-centric, as people like to call it nowadays. He is like the retired business man who lolls in the Florida sunshine in the winter complaining of the sad state of the nation; the minister who sighs over the sins of the twentieth century; politicians and reformers who are sure all would be Utopia if the rest of the world would only behave; the outlaw safe cracker who thinks society has wronged him; and the alcoholic who has lost all and is locked up. Whatever our protestations, are not most of us concerned with ourselves, our resentments, or our self-pity?

Selfishness — self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles. Driven by a hundred forms of fear, self-delusion, self-seeking, and self-pity, we step on the toes of our fellows and they retaliate. Sometimes they hurt us, seemingly without provocation, but we invariably find that at some time in the past we have made decisions based on self which later placed us in a position to be hurt.

So our troubles, we think, are basically of our own making. They arise out of ourselves, and the alcoholic is an extreme example of self-will run riot, though he usually doesn't think so. Above everything, we alcoholics must be rid of this selfishness. We must, or it kill us! God makes that possible. And there often seems no way of entirely getting rid of self without His aid. Many of us had moral and philosophical convictions galore, but we could not live up to them even though we would have liked to. Neither could we reduce our self-centeredness much by wishing or trying on our own power. We had to have God's help.

This is the how and the why of it. First of all, we had to quit playing God. It didn't work. Next, we decided that hereafter in this drama of life, God was going to be our Director. He is the Principal; we are His agents. He is the Father, and we are His children. Most Good ideas are simple, and this concept was the keystone of the new and triumphant arch through which we passed to freedom. When we sincerely took such a position, all sorts of remarkable things followed. We had a new Employer. Being all powerful, He provided what we needed, if we kept close to Him and performed His work well. Established on such a footing we became less and less interested in ourselves, our own little plans and designs. More and more we became interested in seeing what we could contribute to life. As we felt new power flow in, as we enjoyed peace of mind, as we discovered we could face life successfully, as we became conscious of His presence, we began to lose our fear of today, tomorrow or the hereafter. We were reborn.

We were now at Step Three. Many of us said to our Maker, as we Understood Him: "God, I offer myself to Thee — to build with me and to do with me as Thou wilt. Relieve me of the bondage of self, that I may better do Thy will. Take away my difficulties, that victory over them may bear witness to those I would help of Thy Power, Thy Love, and Thy Way of life. May I do Thy will always!" We thought well before taking this step making sure we were ready; that we could at last abandon ourselves utterly to Him.”

So when we "don't care" it means we are unconcerned with self-striving in pursuit of ego-gratification, and in the end and in the final analysis, this is the only basis upon which we can actually care with love and compassion, authentically. So here again, we must become authentic about our own inauthenticity, in this case a preoccupation with concern for self and self preservation and the need to win the approval of others, which isn't even very charming!

Also, please don't be discouraged by any of the "God-talk" since here we are talking about God as God of one's OWN understanding and experience, contact with a higher power, or even the emergence of God-consciousness (awareness). Note: I believe and am convinced that our most authentic and true self exists in an I-thou relationship with the Absolute, of Atma to Brahma who although one, also form a love relationship between beloved and beloved other. Anyway, whatever works, and does not result in an ego-inflation making us much worse off than we were to begin with, since self-will was the original cause of all our problems to begin with.

I think of (God) as the unconditionally loving frame of reference relative to which the human being is recovered, and made whole again.

Do you have "the don't care"?

Best Regards,


edit on 2-11-2011 by NewAgeMan because: edit

posted on Nov, 2 2011 @ 07:56 PM

Reversing the Arrow of Time and History - to be true to ourself as we ARE and are being, having and doing..

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
We can reverse the arrow here, of time and history, by simply first having the courage to take the damn PLANK out of our OWN eye, and then, seeing clearly, help take the splinter from our brothers eye in the space of unconditional love. Why not be the omegapoint ...

"Reverse the arrow of time and history?" - what on earth is NAM talking about now, he must be crazy!

There were a couple of posts I made in another thread which explains what I mean by this fairy well, and it involves the idea of creative play and flow experience or optimal human performance in proper alignment with life itself as a creative process.

Here's what I mean

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Every day, when we first wake up, before reminding ourselves who we think we are and picking up the same old pattern, and the ridiculous drama of our life, there's a new opporunity presented to be really alive and really real and to engage the day's activities creatively, as a new creation.

The problem I think, if there is one, is twofold, involving hardened conceptions of time, and creativity.

To be entirely free and freely self expressed and creative, I think we need to consider the arrow of time, and reverse it, from

past -> present -> future,


future -> present -> past

and our creative action, from

do -> have -> be


be -> have -> do

In the realm or domain of all possibility (freedom to choose) that is the as yet unborn future, everything is fresh and new. Living out of that future, as the being we are choosing to be and to become, we are free to imagine new creative processes and endeavours which are not conditioned by the past, and then the creative process, beginning with a new end in mind, can be thoroughly enjoyed without attachment to outcomes, since we are no longer constrained by this notion that

If I work my ass off today, then I'll get to have _____ tomorrow, and THEN I"ll be happy, maybe.

It's time I think to change the frame of the game of life, so that it will be transformed from a rat race, into creative play, provided we are not unwilling to delay gratification and willingly tackle those things we may have been putting off facing because of the afformentioned dilemma we were in working at cross purposes with reality as it is, and ourselves as we are and are meant to be (free) wherein instant gratification serves only as a compensation for the crushing pressure of life lived in the wrong direction for the wrong purpose, and maybe even by the wrong person (who we are not)!

The flow of life is always and forever fresh and new, and creative, and it flows from the future into the past through who we are freely choosing to be in the present.

Why not start fresh and new? Today, after all, is the very first day of the rest of your life.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
I suppose that it's a re-cognition of the past, both indivdually and collectively, which, although not discarded, is regenerated through our present moment creative action, starting with who we are being, so that in remembrance and forgiveness, where needed, the past loses it's power to project the future, thus liberating us from the conditioning and constraints of the past ie: reborn anew from a higher domain of possibility and potential. The "difficulty" or the "challenge" here involves the re-cognition of the self, not as a conglomerate of the past and what we presume to already know, including who we think ourselves to be, but as a new creation born from the domain of future possibility, which by its very nature is an unknown unknown, or something we did not know and didn't even know we didn't know.!

Therefore, the "turning", and the movement, and the accompanying regeneration of the self as a new creation creating co-creatively, must be abrupt and absolute, like a quantum leap, requiring the courage to live not from the past, but from the future, by facing the whole breadth of the past, wherein the past is known fully in the field of all knowing. From this new perspective we then recognize ourselves as standing in the "holy of holies" or in reality as it really is, wherein all is forgiven, and from that place, provided we forgive as we are forgiven and love as we are loved, and are love, then by golly we've been set free for the sake of freedom, including freedom from karmic debt and all manner of misgivings and unncessary suffering.
Our suffering resides (residED) in our present moment ACTION, first in terms of who we are being and are choosing to be as the first/last cause of what we are imagining for ourselves and others, and then as a result of our doing (action) as an outward expression of our being and imagining.

This then, is nothing short of the re-cognition and thus the full realization of the self, both as we were, and now, as we REALLY are and are becoming, in God (domain of infinite possibility).

And here's a comment from someone who grokked it

Originally posted by etherical waterwave
Sounds like freedom to me! Free of shackles, free of the assumption of who one is. Lost in freedom!!

The above geometrical image was adopted by AA (see previous post), and symbolizes, to me, the idea of wholeness and integrity, and thus indestructable and incorruptible permanency/continuity, where our past-life and way of being, by comparison, might be symbolized by a chaotic, bloblike mess of some kind!

Nice - to be reintegrated into the truth and the life as it is, and have a methodology by which to keep it rolling forward, maybe even into eternity, rocketed into the fifth dimension of existence what I call dimension X (just for fun) although the X is a good symbol in it's own right where "omegapoint" in the generation of a new life is the crossroad point of intersection.

Best Regards,


edit on 2-11-2011 by NewAgeMan because: edit

posted on Nov, 2 2011 @ 10:13 PM

Originally posted by Pointofview
Possibly the most interesting and inspiring thread I've read on ATS ever. And I've been visiting this site for a long time almost every day.

I can also relate to your original post. Very well written. OP, you might be absurd, but aren't we all? I think your words are words of reason in a world of absurdity. Maybe you're not as absurd as you like to think ? ;-)

Thank you for this thread.

Thanks again, I'm glad someone read it! : )

World of insanity, of absurdity...

It's time now to turn, after having turned within and, around, within ourselves (like a lighthouse), to "the world" without, and by that I largely mean the dysfunctional familial social matrix of absurdity, as a whole (not the planet or real life as it is).

Where there's one victory for the individual, there is sure to also be one for his neighbor, right?

Yeast in the dough.

Once we've grokked and captured the seed of new life and new possibility for ourselves, we automatically reach for what is in the mutual best interest of ourselves AND our fellow man, we yearn to "till the soil" and "work the vinyard", and to do a good job at it, even the best we can, now that's getting up to something big and a life's pursuit that makes life really worth living!

Having somehow removed that damn PLANK from our own eye, we can now see clearly how to move forward and how to occur authentically "in the world" (to others) in the process of which we can be a real force of light in the world, the splinter in the world's eye (others) falling out and even EJECTING wherever we go, and in all we are, imagine, think, speak and do, as a walking authentic (and humorous) solution to the absurdity of the world!

Of course, this is humorous (and equally sorrowful), and so the integrity of our good-willed, good-natured humor and therefore our true self is not and cannot be lost (we have the "don't care" and the humor of understanding), and is never lost, but to the contrary, grows, ever moreso, as we place ourselves at the service of our fellow man, and press on in as the "yeast in the dough" as the new creation and the sacred being that we've discovered ourselves to also be - what an opportunity!

But before we go there, and work the great net of heaven (net of love) let's take a brief look at something, to help us "get out of self" and to catch a glimps of a miraculous creation as it is, which is also, for the time being at least, our "house" and as such, the household of the future-present brotherhood of man.

Such a world needs also for us to be true to ourselves, in order to be perfect, whole and complete, and completely true and real, since we are intrinsic to the very process and represent the culmination of an eternal, cosmic, evolutionary recurrence. All creation is just waiting on us, to get real and join the spirit of life and love.

The time has come. Maybe it's not too late?!

Maybe....the kingdom of heaven is now, and "we" together are the heart of the world and the son of man, hey anything's possible!



posted on Nov, 3 2011 @ 02:17 PM
Victory after victory.

Grace after grace.

Life to the full unto overflowing.

The flow of life as it is, ever fresh and renewing. New wine into new wineskins, ourselves made fresh and new each day, opening up like a flower under the radiant light of truth and unconditional love. Timeless, spaceless, ever present, eternal.


(Gullah, "Come By Here" — "Kum ba yah") — is an
African-American spiritual song from the 1930s.

And yes, I just suggested that we join hands right here and now around the sacred fire and flow of eternal life, and sing Kumbaya!

posted on Nov, 4 2011 @ 12:36 AM
reply to post by NewAgeMan

I wish that I had the energy to write such things...I did once read a book by Albert Camus `The Myth of Sisyphus`, taught me to make the most of the absurd.

posted on Nov, 4 2011 @ 12:40 AM
I am kind of absurd. I am extremely absurd. I am linguistically absurd. I am logically absurd. I am irrationally absurd. I am...

Absurdity absurdly absurd...ed.

posted on Nov, 4 2011 @ 12:58 AM
Don the fisherman-like AA Sponsor/Counsellor at the coffee shop, cont'd..

So after "Booking" me, which involved me just reading aloud from the "Big Book" of AA while he stops me from time to time, telling me to underline this and write that in the margin (he said he liked to just let the book "do the work"), Don peers at me, through his wrinkly, smiling eyes, and in the most innocent and direct (and authentic) manner, he announces

"It's all upside down, eh"

I said "what do you mean?"

to which he replied

"It's all upside down to everything we thought about everything, that's where all the good stuff is, where the payoff is you see. We don't know #, and everything you thought you knew was crap"

to which I of course protested vehmently that that just wasn't and couldn't be the case, given how much I knew (or thought I did), but Don didn't take no # from the likes of me, so he said

"Well, if you knew everything already, then what are you doing here with an asshole like me?" (waiting patiently)

I had to relent at that, with a laugh, and we both chuckled.

"Everything that's worthwhile, everything that God has in store for us, is right there, but we thought we knew better, we thought we already new EVERYTHING, but we didn't know #, did we?"

The good news, on the other hand, is that once we can see this, and admit it, that we don't know squat, then we know that we don't know, and right there, things start to turn over and lo and behold, it aint nuthin the everything that's left over, eh, and that's why I'm a big nothing who knows he doesn't know, and that's what gives me the don't care and the big paycheck and the reason I'm sitting here helping out assholes like you. What you don't think I have something better to do that sit here in this coffee shop, meeting asshole after asshole, and just like you when they first show up, they think they know everything, but if they keep on coming, like you have, then eventually they come to realize that they don't know # and whatever they THINK they know is just more of the same, you know, same day different #.

The fun part though, is when it turns over, when you turn, and then you get to see what I've been shown, on the other side of the #, the whale# (he called it), and when you first came in here, you had a pile of whale# so big it would have filled 10 of these coffee shops, not an easy one to turn you've been Rob, too smart for your own good, but that's not a bad thing in the end, once you get to the bottom of YOUR whale#."

What could I do at this point, but start smiling and laughing with the old coot, because he had me cold, and I could see the reason, and the happy twinkle in his eye.

Thanks Don, much appreciated, and boy would he ever get a kick out of this post and this thread, "big time, eh?"

I'll have to take a trip up to Jasper sometime (Don's end of the world paradise) and let him know just how helpful he was to me, and what an impact his special brand of AA spiritual wisdom had on me. Thanks Don, brother!

This is for you!

Upside Down

Who's to say
What's impossible
Well they forgot
This world keeps spinning
And with each new day
I can feel a change in everything
And as the surface breaks reflections fade
But in some ways they remain the same
And as my mind begins to spread its wings
There's no stopping curiosity

I want to turn the whole thing upside down
I'll find the things they say just can't be found
I'll share this love I find with everyone
We'll sing and dance to Mother Nature's songs
I don't want this feeling to go away

Who's to say
I can't do everything
Well I can try
And as I roll along I begin to find
Things aren't always just what they seem

I want to turn the whole thing upside down
I'll find the things they say just can't be found
I'll share this love I find with everyone
We'll sing and dance to Mother Nature's songs
This world keeps spinning and there's no time to waste
Well it all keeps spinning spinning round and round and

Upside down
Who's to say what's impossible and can't be found
I don't want this feeling to go away

Please don't go away
Please don't go away
Please don't go away
Is this how it's supposed to be
Is this how it's supposed to be

posted on Nov, 4 2011 @ 01:28 AM
reply to post by ironbutterflyrusted

Do you have the energy and the courage and the love to get authentic about your own inauthenticities in relation to your family, friends and loved ones, (the things that are a hindrance to your own self-expression, and love) or if you need more of those relationships, to go out and get them somehow?

It's the same energy, the same passion, which is simply willing to go to great lengths to recover lost love, both within ourselves and in relation to others, whether friend or foe, loved one or someone we might have wronged in some way or another. I mean like hey, we've all failed in this vital area, and yet the means and the opportunity is still open to us, and we are ALL of us extraordinary in our own right, right?

This thread is not about my absurdity, but the real me, and the real you, re-discovering that, which almost died in some of us who are not as young any more, and others due to shyness, insecurity, etc etc, which is all just absurd nonsense, there is no reason to withold ourselves from others, or our love for them, and for ourselves, that's just "crazy making" as my mother Kay would say!

You see, when we "get" our absurdity, fully and completely, and in the process recognize our true self, then we're no longer absurd, even though we may have left a mess all over the place and in particular a mess of our human relationships where we failed in love, but are now prepared to take responsibility for being "at cause"...

Go to a family member and tell them about how you might have messed up, by making false assumptions and projections, about them and about you (don't use words like "authenticity" or "absurdity" because they won't have a clue what you're talking about, and will just think you're crazy), and make sure that they really GET you, and who you are pledging to be and to become, and then share with them, not only something costly, to win their confidence, but also who you want to be, and how you would rather be in relation to them in such a way that it touches, moves and inspires them - do this, and the new life, and the energy you seek will be yours. Just try it - someone, as an experiment, but get authentic about where you were inauthentic and absurd, and then get clear about just how much this has been a contraint on all your human relationships including your own with yourself, and then summon the courage and go to them to make amends, in the space of absolute unconditional love (no judging or taking THEIR inventory), and you will be ASTONISHED, not just you ironbutterflyrusted (although you might become a real butterly and velvetty wings), but anyone. Give it a go, you might be astounded at what will happen, and no matter how they react or respond, I tell you, the clearing you will generate for yourself alone will be quite extraordinary, guaranteed 100% (said like Don).

There is a type of "technology" to this that we haven't even really explored yet, but someone has to try it out, just once, if only simply to see what happens. Anyone? I can't do this alone!

Let me just say this - if you liked and grokked this thread, the work has only just begun and you aint seen nuthin yet, only because you haven't done nuthin yet. Try something new, anything. Shake things up, and try on a new you, a you of your own choosing that is more authentic, perhaps infinitely moreso, with just who you really are!



edit on 4-11-2011 by NewAgeMan because: edit

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