France's Secret War.

I'm still trying to find a more detailed account of Frances roll in WW2. At least to be fair for now "Vichy France" though really there is no distinguishing between France and Vichy, until Normandy Invasion.

www.wargamer.com...

The Vichy France fought the Allies almost as long as they fought the Axis. And this isn't the only account.

Elsewhere I've already been mentioning how much French equipment and personell, rather than going to England in exile to later liberate France, went back to France to serve in the Vichy France.

In case you never bothered to ask, I'll ask for you.

"Why were there so few French actually liberating France?"

Because they were too busy beating off the Allies.

More to come later.

I didn't expect to get more info so soon, but from my Atlases and History books I did a tally.

Boy I'm not going to call those Frenchies "Cowards" anymore.

That's just a ploy devised by the Allies or whatever (as far as I can tell) to keep good relations with the French, I suppose it had worked until now.

But the truth is those French were fighting Tooth and nail, just for the Nazis.

Granted it was the "Vichy France" government pulling the strings, but it was French blood being spilt, and if the French wanted to fight for the Allies, they more than had a chance after Syria.

Of the 40,000 French troops in Syria, 2,000 were killed, and of the remaining 38,000 only about 5700 opted to join the Free French when they surrendered. The rest made their way back to France.

Apparently the French were fighting for the Nazis all over the world. They were in Madagascar, where fighting lasted from 5th May, to 5th November. Now that's a hell of a lot more fighting than was done to keep France free.

Due to the growing numbers of Free French in the Pacific (all foriegn troops though) the Vichy signed over all their bases to the japanese and left basically.

In North Africa there were 120,000 additional French Troops.

And in West africa there were 30,000.

This is a large contrast to the 3,000 Free French.

Odd, if France wanted to be "Liberated" from the "evil Nazis" then why is it the people spoke and said by a vote of 50 to 1, that they would fight FOR the Nazis?

French fleets in Oran/Mers-el-Kebir put up a poor fight against the Royal Navy in attempting to keep closed, the Straits of Gibralter.

Man this list is just getting worse and worse.

I think I should have put this in "Political Scandalism" page, because I think honestly they aren't teaching this just because of the want to keep "good relations."

But by damn, all this time those Frenchies were Axis and they actively fought against the Allies.

*EDIT* Oh I forgot to mention, French Somaliland held 10,000 French Troops, and more to come

[Edited on 8-4-2003 by 5POF]

[Edited on 8-4-2003 by 5POF]

Interesting, but still, most of Vichy France has nothing to do with the Holocaust, since the Holocaust was uncovered *after* ('at') the end of the WW2.

...and of course, France nowadays is *very* different of France back on those years.

Well first I'll admit that Vichy in no way represents ALL of France.

But it was French armies fighting the Allies, when they could have given up and gone to Britain to later Liberate France. To me their decision makes no sense.

As for the Holocaust, everyone in the Axis knew that Jews were disappearing.

Every official knew where they were going.

And every one higher up in the party knew why.

Just because the rest of the world had no clue as to what was going on in Death Camps around Poland and Germany, doesn't mean the Germans, the Poles, and the Higher up French didn't know.

And all the French knew that Jews were being rounded up and forced into labour. But it just goes to show, kill a jew to save your own hide. Now that America never wants to turn their eyes again as they did in the late 30s. As did Britain, as did France.

Who's the only ones remaining stalwart in turning a blind eye to Genocide? The French and the Germans.

They have barely changed, and what's worse, they probably don't even realize they are still the same.

[Edited on 8-4-2003 by 5POF]

The myth that the French were forced by the Germans to pursue an
antisemitic policy has already been properly buried by Paxton, et al.
The assertion that they weren't informed of what was really happening
to the Jews has yet to be debated, though enough evidence exists to
demonstrate the contrary.

I wanted to quote that directly from this source because Mako had been saying that no one knew what the Germans were doing, but evidently they did, even the French did, and it's not known just how much they knew.

However...this seems like a good and balanced source, it gives numbers of the Free French resistance (I think it said 40,000 in total). And mentions cases where French helped jews.

But this isn't the "only" French, and a good example of why they are acting the way they are today, is because of their events in Nazi France. (Note I do leave out the "occupied", it was far from occupied, while there were resisters, there were supporters too).

Here's the source, I urge you to read it for it seems pretty decent. And it is informitive on multiples of maters.

Not sure about the whole site though, maybe it is a Big Communist site or some crap.

Doesn't seem biased though.

www.amgot.org...

Again, I'm not saying *no one* knows. I'm saying most of the civilian population didn't know. The Holocauset was kept in secret. And accusing the political one of knowing that doesn't matter, cause no one of them have influential power in those nations (if there is one alive still, 58 years later).

I just saw "France" and "fought" used in the same sentence...

Mako the holocaust was never kept in secret.

Everyone knew that Jews were being deported, that the Nazis were taking their stuff.

Many knew the Jews were being enslaved. There's more to the holocaust than just the "Final Solution".

France it turns out did have its own Concentration camp, right near the German border Albeit.

But any Frenchie there would have known where the Jews really ended up.

Some more War info:

Free French troops did secure two cities, "Mersilles?" and Tobruk? (those names stick in my head after reading it), but that other than Paris, is the only military action it seems they saw on French soil.

I don't think it would have been foriegners from French colonies though, I know the French don't like Foriegners to fight on their soil.

I'm still looking for any Special Forces operations by the French...seemingly none.

How sad, this means that more French were still fighting the Allies than were fighting the Axis

Well prescott Bush Supported the Nazi's.....

That's the stupidest thing I ever heard, he only dealt with them on a monetary way, banking, and it was stopped in '42, and his son actively fought the Nazis.

Not the case with the French, don't bring your bad history crap onto my Marble floor.

[Edited on 9-4-2003 by 5POF]