The most vulnerable suffer when fluoride is taken from water

Originally posted by TheComte

Originally posted by Atman79
This goes out to Thecomet. And all other pro fluoride sheep.

www.youtube.com...


Just fu#king watch it. then make up your mind.

Don't skim over it or ignore me, then continue to spout your un researched idiotic opions, just fu#king watch it

www.youtube.com...

Woah, settle down there, hoss.

I can tell you I've done extensive research on this topic and have yet to find a definitive peer-reviewed study that:

a) links fluoride to cancer,
b) says fluoride is causing people to be 'dumbed down',
c) says fluoride keeps people docile

I already iterated my opinion on the Perkins Nazi myth. You, of course, are entitled to your own opinion though.

You told me you never claimed any insight to the use of fluoride. How can you say you have done extensive research. If you have not studied the effects of fluoride in every case then you have no idea. Are you saying Fluoride in water is safer than what is in toothpaste, Prozac, Paxil, beer, baby formula, cereal etc... Can you explain the purpose of Fluoride in water. Please don't say it is for our teeth. That is part of the BS three ring circus..

I was happy to see you were honest but now you flip flopped. Everyone can see your word games and watch how you and your group work. Time to find another BS role.

Peace to you.

"I never claimed any insight to the use of fluoride, except that, there is no PROOF/EVIDENCE that the amounts put in drinking water is harmful to our health.... "

It does absolutely jack sh1t mate, thats the problem. And the real issue at hand. It doesnt promote a decline in tooth cavities, and its been proven many times, but is blatently ignored by gooverments and mediacal authorities

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by malachi777
Read this and weep!

www.quackwatch.com...

Fluoride is a mineral that occurs naturally in most water supplies. Fluoridation is the adjustment of the natural fluoride concentration to about one part of fluoride to one million parts of water. Although fluoridation is safe and effective in preventing tooth decay, the scare tactics of misguided poisonmongers have deprived many communities of its benefits.

from quackwatch HealthPromotion/fluoride

That isn't the Fluoride we are talking about this is:


Sodium Fluoride (NaF) was the first compound used and is the reference standard. It is a white, odorless powder or crystal; the crystalline form is preferred if manual handling is used, as it minimizes dust. It is more expensive than the other compounds, but is easily handled and is usually used by smaller utility companies. It is the byproduct of the production of superphosphate fertilizer.

Fluorosilicic acid (H2SiF6) is an inexpensive liquid by-product of phosphate fertilizer manufacture. It comes in varying strengths, typically 23–25%; because it contains so much water, shipping can be expensive. It is also known as hexafluorosilicic, hexafluosilicic, hydrofluosilicic, and silicofluoric acid.

Sodium fluorosilicate (Na2SiF6) is a powder or very fine crystal that is easier to ship than fluorosilicic acid. It is also known as sodium silicofluoride.


These compounds were chosen for their solubility, safety (my ass), availability (it is a waste product from manufacturing processes), and low cost (easier to put into the water supply then to properly dispose of it). A 1992 census found that, for U.S. public water supply systems reporting the type of compound used, 63% of the population received water fluoridated with fluorosilicic acid, 28% with sodium fluorosilicate, and 9% with sodium fluoride.

63% of fluoride in water is a byproduct of the production of superphosphate fertilizer. That sounds awesome doesn't it?

Oh and I bet no one told you nobody knows how much Fluoride you receive via water because it is dumped in and not regulated after it is dumped in. And Fluoride is a food additive and just about everything we cook uses tap water so you are most likely getting exposed somewhere, somehow.

How Poisonmongers Work

The antifluoridationists' ("antis") basic technique is the big lie. Made infamous by Hitler, it is simple to use, yet surprisingly effective. It consists of claiming that fluoridation causes cancer, heart and kidney disease, and other serious ailments that people fear. The fact that there is no supporting evidence for such claims does not matter. The trick is to keep repeating them—because if something is said often enough, people tend to think there must be some truth to it.


from quackwatch HealthPromotion/fluoride

That may be how "poisonmongers" work but here is how Fluoride proponents got it into the water:

Ever hear of Edward Bernays?
Probably not so I'll fill you in. He was an American pioneer in the field of public relations and propaganda. Why is that important?

He also helped the Aluminum Company of America (Alcoa) and other special interest groups to convince the American public that water fluoridation was safe and beneficial to human health. This was achieved by using the American Dental Association in a highly successful media campaign.

Now why would the public need to be convinced this was good for teeth? I mean if it was so good for you people would be clamoring to get it into their water supply...I mean toothpaste.

Here is one of my favorite quotes from him:

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society" - Edward Bernays

So again we have a poster adding his 2 cents after reading ONE article, that in case is completely misleading. Read up on the subject before you claim everyone else is wrong, it makes you look foolish.

And the point of posting is to build upon previous posts to come a better understanding of a particular subject not to try to belittle people...and a poor attempt at that.

www.youtube.com...

ya. it burns holes in asphalt but the Gov says its fine to ingest.. no big deal. and before you go into talking about deluding id ask you "so in your head, when you put a little rat poison in a lot of water, that water is "A" ok right? no reason to take it out cause the rat poison keeps rats out of your house right?"

reply to post by KILL_DOGG


I do not wish to intake sodium fluoride, calcium fluoride i will consider. this should be my choice, as I do not get decent nhs cover, whatever I digest.

reply to post by Buford2


I'm pretty sure you quoted the wrong guy.

I never wrote what you said I wrote.

Originally posted by Atman79
If any pro fluorider would care to bring forward scientific data that proves ingestion of sodium fluoride, lowers tooth decay, then I will hold my hands up and admit Im wrong. Until that day, this discussion/argument is nonsical.

I dont' think anyone thinks ingestion of fluoride has a significant effect - it is the topical application that is most important, and the easiest way to have topical application is in water.

to base your anti-fluoride argument on the idea that ingestion does not prevent tooth decay is what is non-sensical.

On the other hand, if you are saying that regular use of a fluoridated toothpaste is probably a better use of fluoride - I'd agree. But that is a pro-fluoride argument - not an anti one - albeit it is not a pro-fluoride-in-water argument.

Sadly, however, it appaears that getting good regular health practices like that happening with kids around the world is not now and hever has been all that successful...and I am unaware of any fundamental change in the nature of kids that is likely to make the situation any better!!

And if this is the case then I also congratulate you on not resorting to the "fluoride is poison" malarky so often trotted out here!

reply to post by Grego888


The mechanism is described here

Ever hear of Edward Bernays? Probably not so I'll fill you in. He was an American pioneer in the field of public relations and propaganda. Why is that important?

reply to post by bphi1908


There is a great documentary on some of the work done by Edward Bernays.

It's called "The Century of the Self"

I will address the claim that sodium fluoride is not the same as calcium fluoride.

Some consumers have questioned whether fluoride from natural groundwater sources, such as calcium fluoride, is better than fluorides added “artificially,” such as FSA or sodium fluoride. Two recent scientific studies listed below demonstrate that the same fluoride ion is present in naturally occurring fluoride or fluoride drinking water additives and that no intermediates or other products were observed at pH levels as low as 3.5. In addition, fluoride metabolism is not affected differently by the chemical compounds nor are they affected by whether the fluoride is present naturally or artificially.

- The ionic speciation study conducted in 2006 mentioned previously (Finney WF, Wilson E, Callender A, Morris MD, Beck LW. Re-examination of hexafluorosilicate hydrolysis by fluoride NMR and pH measurement. Environ Sci Technol 2006;40:8:2572)
- The pharmacokinetics of ingested fluoride was studied by a 2008 study (G.M. Whitford, F.C. Sampaio, C.S. Pinto, A.G. Maria, V.E.S. Cardoso, M.A.R. Buzalaf, Pharmacokinetics of ingested fluoride: Lack of effect of chemical compound, Archives of Oral Biology, 53 (2008) 1037–1041).

Some consumers have questioned whether fluoride from natural groundwater sources, such as calcium fluoride, is better than fluorides added “artificially,” such as from the fluoride water treatment additives presently used. This allegation is not supported by scientific findings. The ionic speciation study mentioned previously (Finney et.al. 2006) also reported that water treatment additives dissociate to the same ions that are found in groundwater.

www.cdc.gov...

Fluorine is the 17th most abundant element in the earth's crust. It is also very reactive and will form compounds with almost any other element. These compounds are called fluorides. There are many different kinds of fluorides. Some are used for medicine in treatment of HIV/AIDS patients. Some are used for poison.

What the CDC website is saying, quoting two peer-reviewed studies, is that when added to water, the fluorine ion dissociates with the other element. What this means is that the water treatment additives (whatever they may be) break down when added to water so the end result is the same fluorine ions that are naturally present in groundwater.

Dissociation in chemistry and biochemistry is a general process in which ionic compounds (complexes, molecules, or salts) separate or split into smaller molecules, ions, or radicals, usually in a reversible manner.

Originally posted by snowen20
reply to post by MathiasAndrew

 

I have not been able to find any evidence that then Nazis or the communist Russians ever used fluoride in water to control prison population.
If you have a link to something reputable I would like to read it.

Here is a PDF of a study showing IQ reduction in areas with fluorosis.


IQ reduction

I have searched Nazis fluoride and Nazi fluoridation in student search engines and have found no results. If they did do it, it is not something that has been researched in a manner to where a research student can find information.

I think people are catching on that the Perkins Nazi Fluoridation myth is just that, a myth.

It would be great if we can get the anti-fluoridationists to stop using this argument to support their claims, as it is untrue, and only hurts their credibility, rather than enhances it.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


So basically what it does is dissolves the plaque and bacteria off of your teeth? I never had anyone sit try to explain this properly to me. It still doesn't make sense why its in drinking water, you would think they would put something that is bio available to the body in our water that we could process if they really cared about our teeth, not something that is unnatural that we retain and calcifies on bones and teeth

I don't think the "Flouride Conspiracy" is based on the health benefits being a lie, it's just that flouride has side-effects, like almost everything you may ingest over time. The idea is that flouride (which can pass through the 'blood-brain barrier') crystallizes around the pineal gland in the brain. It replaces the crystals - I'm unsure of their composition at the moment - that naturally occur around the gland

reply to post by TheComte


You are so right. Very sorry.

Peace to you

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by KILL_DOGG

 

Brave person

Flouride is safe of course. I think most of the stuff we see is from people suffering from various levels of paranoid delusions.

You really want to upset them, point out each generation lives longer and is healthier which is true. That really pisses them off because it's true. People want to believe their MD's and the medical community is out to get them.

I've thought about doing an extensive thread on these irrational ideas and products of paranoid delusions, but never had the courage.

Strangely enough the same people bankrupt themselves buying fake stuff sold to them by the confidence people who take advantage of their paranoia. Spend fortunes on innocuous plant material shoved into gelatine capsules and sold for a premium. Believe obvious confidence persons over real medical experts.

Telling the truth is never wrong. I imagine you will be severely attacked by those who see you as a threat to their own con-games and income from it along with their victims.

I have one working for me now. He keeps himself broke buying expensive, worthless crap like a $3,000 water ionizer when he could not even cover his property taxes. The confindence person who sold him that forgot to tell him the ionization is gone by the time he tilts the glass to his lips, but he got his money and cheated him. I ended up paying them for him that year. He falls for everything. I expect soon to see his skin turn blue from that worthless, very expensive colloidal silver nonsense.

edit on 10/12/2011 by Blaine91555 because: (no reason given)

Actually, Fluoride is not safe. It's a toxic waste byproduct from industrial processes. Ever read the warnings on toothpaste? it warns not to ingest it, ever wonder why? Ingesting Fluoride for your teeth is like swallowing a band aid for a cut.

According to the US National Research Council, "it is apparent that fluorides have the ability to interfere with the functions of the brain."

In the 1990s, it was discovered that the pineal gland is a major site of fluoride accumulation within the body - with higher concentrations of fluoride than either teeth or bone.

Subsequent animal studies indicate that the accumulation of fluoride in the pineal gland can reduce the gland's synthesis of melatonin, a hormone that helps regulate the onset of puberty. Fluoride-treated animals were found to have reduced levels of circulating melatonin and an earlier onset of puberty than untreated animals. The scientist who conducted the research concluded:

"The safety of the use of fluorides ultimately rests on the assumption that the developing enamel organ is most sensitive to the toxic effects of fluoride. The results from this study suggest that the pinealocytes may be as susceptible to fluoride as the developing enamel organ" (Luke 1997).

cites came from here: www.fluoridealert.org... there is a lot of information that shows the fluoridation of water is a complete scam and is basically poisoning the people drinking it.

Would it be better to call them Germans instead of Nazi's?

Fluoride History

www.fluoride-history.de...

By 1935 the Friedrich-Wilhelms University of Berlin was under the strong influence of the Nazi-Regime and many students and teachers were either arrested or forced to leave. Lange, who since 1925 was married to Lilli Baermann (Sept. 6, 1901 - Feb. 1982), a colleague at the Chemistry Department (19a), was forced "for political reasons" (his wife was Jewish (19b)) to leave the academic career. With the approval of the Ministry of education, he first took a leave from his teaching job and moved to Duesseldorf, Germany, where he worked for Henkel & Cie. Henkel´s director at that time, chemist Dr. Hugo Henkel, a former graduate (1905) of the University of Berlin, was setting up a central chemical laboratory for the company to conduct research on new chemical products (20). Henkel was apparently not a friend of the Nazis, and it is claimed that none of his Jewish or half-Jewish workers became a victim of the holocaust.

Good old Monsanto at it again.

www.fluoride-history.de...
1944

Hardy and Kosolapoff, assignors to Monsanto Chemical Company, patented the production of dialkyl fluorophosphates (such as DFP, diisopropyl fluorophosphate) "by a process which comprises reacting an aliphatic alcohol with phosphorus trichloride to form a dialkyl hydrogen phosphite, chlorinating the crude product and then fluorinating the dialkyl chlorophosphate formed by means of an alkali fluoride (e.g. sodium fluoride) to produce the corresponding dialkyl fluorophosphate":

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
reply to post by KILL_DOGG

 

Fluoride is dangerous!

Material Safety Data Sheet Sodium fluoride MSD

Section 3: Hazards Identification

Potential Acute Health Effects:
Hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant), of eye contact (irritant, corrosive), of ingestion, of inhalation. Slightly hazardous incase of skin contact (corrosive). Severe over-exposure can result in death

Potential Chronic Health Effects:
CARCINOGENIC EFFECTS: A4 (Not classifiable for human or animal.) by ACGIH, 3 (Not classifiable for human.) by IARC.
MUTAGENIC EFFECTS: Mutagenic for mammalian somatic cells. Mutagenic for bacteria and/or yeast. TERATOGENIC
EFFECTS: Not available. DEVELOPMENTAL TOXICITY: Not available. The substance may be toxic to kidneys, lungs,
the nervous system, heart, gastrointestinal tract, cardiovascular system, bones, teeth. Repeated or prolonged exposure
to the substance can produce target organs damage. Repeated exposure to a highly toxic material may produce general
deterioration of health by an accumulation in one or many human organs

Come on guys, get with it! I can't believe people are still defending the use of fluoride.

Sodium fluoride is a chemical byproduct. Calcium fluoride is not bad for you and occurs naturally in nature. Go ahead, take a guess which one they put in our water...

edit on 12-10-2011 by Corruption Exposed because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-10-2011 by Corruption Exposed because: type fail

YES! The difference is important, because right now, that nasty stuff is put in my city's water supply, but a group of people have brought the evidence before a group of city council members, and we expect a decision soon.

The amount of ignorance that floats around this issue is maddening.

Originally posted by Slaanesh
YES! The difference is important, because right now, that nasty stuff is put in my city's water supply, but a group of people have brought the evidence before a group of city council members, and we expect a decision soon.

The amount of ignorance that floats around this issue is maddening.

And round and round we go, where we stop, nobody knows.

I just addressed the difference a few posts above. If you wish to refute my post, I await your comment.

So why do they put something in our drinking water if it is unnatural to our bodies. something we retain 60% of that binds with our bones and teeth?

reply to post by KILL_DOGG


This is a most agregious and HORRENDOUS LIE!!! Fluoridated water is nothing but POISON to the human body, There are MANY dangers associated with drinking this toxic waste.

PLEASE GET EDUCATED PEOPLE!!! OUR GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN PURPOSELY POISONING US FOR MANY YEARS NOW!!!

www.lovethetruth.com...

fluoridedangers.blogspot.com...

www.squidoo.com...