If 'Reincarnation' exists, then.....?

Originally posted by apacheman
reply to post by DrinkYourDrug

 

Oh, I understand now. I thought you were being facetious. Sorry.

The question you are asking is whether virii have consciousness/souls, too.

My answer would have to be yes they do,as everything alive must have to be alive. Now there's some wriggle room there, since the jury's still out on whether they are actually alive. Personally, I think the quibble is one of semantics, and come down on the side of them being alive.

Is their consciousness/soul on a par with ours or a tree's or whale's? I would say no. It seems to me that it would be sort of a proto-consciousness, barely there, but there nonetheless. At least on an individual level. There might be a group effect, but I tend to doubt it as most virii mutate like crazy and that would mitigate against it I would think. I could be wrong on that score though.

Moving up the scale a bit, would you say that ants have consciousness? I most certainly think so. Look at their accomplishments in engineering their nests; you don't get that result from randomness or mere instinct.Theirs is a truly alien consciousness, but indisputably present.

After years of thought and discussions about it, I've come to the conclusion that there are phyla of souls that are incompatible with each other, i.e., while ants have their own version of a soul and consciousness, you won't reincarnate as an insect. Insect consciousness is a separate phyla of souls, if you will, likewise plants. It seems to me that most of the animal energy constructs we are discussing are similar enough to allow them to inhabit different body forms, but that's just me...I wouldn't mind reincarnating as a dolphin: their lives are pretty fun as long as we don't screw with their environment or hunt them. I've met a few wild ones in my life, back when I was shrimping and found them fun companions with the occasionally wicked sense of humor. Nice folks, overall.

Single celled life and Vegetation, dew kNot have a single/individual soul powering them, they are powered by the Collective of Souls, thus, they have Spirit, kNot a Soul.

Ribbit

What does HIV/Aids have to do with Reincarnation? I'm so beyond lost now.....

Can anyone explain? I see a few of you talking about if those with HIV have souls. Of course they do. Every living being does. :/

Originally posted by sarra1833
I know a few of my past lives, have been lucky in this life to both find and reunite with two of my past families. We still look very much alike, have memories, parallels in our personal lives from here and then, etc etc etc.

Sure the body rots away but we are not a body. We are a soul/energy. Yes, we are able to recall our past lives to a degree. There is a super super rare chance to recall a ton of any lifetime; the older you go back, the harder it is to recall. It's like trying to remember being 25 if you're 50. Sure you have memories but if you think back to being 16, then 5, then 2, your memories will be less and less the farther back you go.

The newer the past life, the easier it is to remember things, have flashbacks and the sort.

Phobias usually start around the same time that event happened in a past life to give us said fear. Before I knew anything about reincarnation, back in 1998, I was working as a housepainter, doing exterior painting on 40 foot ladders. Going up and down like no problem. Well, I went to work at my second job that same day and froze solid on the 3rd rung of a 6 foot ladder. Frozen solid, pure panic attack. Took 3 people to help me down.

Only way later in 2008 when I got into reincarnation cuz my past life bro found me and etc etc., did I start doing regressions. I had a life where I'd fallen hard to my death - and it was the same age as I was back in 98 when I suddenly got that phobia out of no where.

anyway, if anyone is curious, I just may start a topic about my own reincarnations. I have tons of pics of then/now with me and my families then (now and then). And the parallels for me and my past life selves are crazy insane.

It's nice to hear someone understands our Soul's make-up! Pure energy, a finite piece of God/Source.

As to your story, I can totally relate, except I don't have phobias in life, they're in my dreams. In what appears to have been my last life, I died in a car accident. In my dreams, when I'm driving, the breaks never werk and I'm always terrified but in real life, I'm a speed demon, which is also what caused my death in my apparent past life.

One of the things I've wondered is were faulty brakes the cause of the accident that killed me? With that constant factor in any dream where I'm driving, it sure seems like a possibility but remember, I only state that the past life I believe I had, is only that, I believe it's my past life and that I have residual memories of it affecting my dreams.

Ribbit

Originally posted by sarra1833
What does HIV/Aids have to do with Reincarnation? I'm so beyond lost now.....

Can anyone explain? I see a few of you talking about if those with HIV have souls. Of course they do. Every living being does. :/

kNot everything has an individual Soul powering it and what doesn't, is powered by the Collective of Souls.

Ribbit

reply to post by ButtUglyToad


I'd still like to know why some were talking about those with HIV. >> An illness doesn't mean anything save we chose to have it happen to learn something in this life. So yeah, they have souls and reincarnate too. I was just curious why HIV and not Cancer or those with forever pneumonia, etc.

reply to post by sarra1833


Not talking about people with HIV, but rather the virus itself.

The question boiled down to how small an entity can be and have a soul.

reply to post by ButtUglyToad


See, I have a hard time pretending that humans are a special case of anything, which is what most religions and philosophies that invoke gods/God/higher powers, etc. tend to assert.

All life is one, yes, I buy that.

More advanced souls/consciousnesses, okay I buy that, too.

We are better than bugs, horses, eagles, whales? Sorry, you lost me there.

The guys from Aldeberan are better than us? Sorry, you lost me there, too.

The Collective Conscious is self-aware as a singular entity of which we are merely parts? That one doesn't fly either.

Energy is energy. It takes a lot of different forms and none of them are inherently superior and no matter how much energy you pile together, it doesn't become a supreme being of any sort.

My biggest problem with the collective spirit thing is that it is unnecessary to explain the world we see and experience, and to include it diminishes the great wonder and joy of what truly is.

I don't need it to feel at home in the world and comfortable in my spirit.

But feel free if it gives you comfort.

reply to post by Marlborough Red

A perhaps relatively simple question that certainly can't be answered in a simple way.

If reincarnation/s exist then why doe we not remember previous lives or beings?

Something I have been pondering for a while and was wondering what others thoughts on the subject may be?

Well, Red the question itself is as important as the answer. You ask: "Why do we not remember previous lives?"

To whom are you directing this question? I take it you do not remember any past life of your own. Are you asking others similar to yourself who also cannot remember?

Or are you directing the question to all fellow human beings who you assume are all unable to recall any experience previous to their current birth?

Well, either way I can say that as people age their physical memory deteriorates, and a week ago may as well be a year ago, or even a century ago. That is is within one lifetime, never mind recalling events from a previous lifetime. Also, look at dreams - what was a vivid compelling series of events can often only be recollected at the first moment of awakening, if at all, and even then the increasing influence of the waking state repels any effort to hold the memory. When the memory is sharp and active it may seem like a mystery as to why the events of a previous life cannot be recollected, but when one cannot even recall the names of people one may have known for over a month, or when every day is like the movie '50 first Dates' then it is not too difficult to understand.

Memory is recalled through a process of associations - sometimes the associations which indicate a previous life, fall into place due to a random process and one experiences a Deja Vu. Otherwise associations are activated through the power of concentration - you wish to recall something specific and one association activates its companion in a chain until the memory is located. This happens automatically when the brain is still young but with age has to be manually enacted as there is deterioration of the auto-process.

The other consideration is the question: what is actually worth remembering? Sometimes people have asked others: "If you could take 3 books to a deserted island where you might not be rescued for a long time like Robinson Crusoe, which 3 books would you take?" Similarly, if you had to choose the memories from only 3 events in your life to take beyond the gates of death, which would you choose?

Most of our memories, if we are honest, have no real value at all as far as storing them in a hard drive where only critically important memories might have to be stored. All the times you went to the toilet would be discarded for instance, as well as all the times you masturbated, or ate pizza or times you spent deciding which brand of beer you would drink etc etc.

But these very mundane events themselves may have served as a type of psychic glue which connected more important aspects of experience which required further evolution in circumstances which would have provided a more fertile ground for development.

reply to post by Marlborough Red


Maybe there are problems with the memory transfer

reply to post by apacheman


I agree fully with you. I do feel that no one is better than anyone from one point of space to the other and since space is forever, well.... we're all made of the same matter throughout eternity.

So, if we're all made of the same matter, energy, then we're all on the same playing field.

Originally posted by apacheman
reply to post by ButtUglyToad

 

See, I have a hard time pretending that humans are a special case of anything, which is what most religions and philosophies that invoke gods/God/higher powers, etc. tend to assert.

All life is one, yes, I buy that.

More advanced souls/consciousnesses, okay I buy that, too.

We are better than bugs, horses, eagles, whales? Sorry, you lost me there.

The guys from Aldeberan are better than us? Sorry, you lost me there, too.

The Collective Conscious is self-aware as a singular entity of which we are merely parts? That one doesn't fly either.

Energy is energy. It takes a lot of different forms and none of them are inherently superior and no matter how much energy you pile together, it doesn't become a supreme being of any sort.

My biggest problem with the collective spirit thing is that it is unnecessary to explain the world we see and experience, and to include it diminishes the great wonder and joy of what truly is.

I don't need it to feel at home in the world and comfortable in my spirit.

But feel free if it gives you comfort.

By what I get, you agree that humans aren't anything special and you think I think We are better than other animals/insects/ect....? I dew kNot! As Souls, We are ONE:

Law of WE

"We are All for One and One for All, for WE are One and All."

We-ism

"We are All for One and One for All, for WE are One Love for One and All."

As to "The guys from Aldeberan are better than us?" WTF? Where is Aldeberan? That's the first time in this existence that I've ever typed that werd, so where did you get that from? kNot me!

Then you said:

"Energy is energy. It takes a lot of different forms and none of them are inherently superior and no matter how much energy you pile together, it doesn't become a supreme being of any sort.

My biggest problem with the collective spirit thing is that it is unnecessary to explain the world we see and experience, and to include it diminishes the great wonder and joy of what truly is."

How dew you know ALL energy is that way? When's the last time you've made a trip to the 1st Dimension, to see your brother & sister Souls that reside there, along with your Soul?

As to the Collective Consciousness "diminishing the great wonder and joy of what truly is" clearly proves once again you've bought into this Matrix. The actual TRUTH is far better than what you think the Truth is, so it does kNot diminish it, it defines it.

Another thing that you appear to kNot be aware of is the Mathematical Center of the Universe is ONE.

"You can't teach someone something they already know." - Old Toad Proverb

Ribbit

I have to admit that it'd be easier to simply believe in Reincarnation (since the notion has been around for a very long time), and even easier to believe that there's an enormous soul collective that temporarily pieces zillions of bits of itself out, with an eye on maturity of the whole - even though most see this whole as all knowing and/or all cognizant to begin with (since that notion releases each of us from any negative impact resulting from how we've dealt with the business of corporeal existence, and also has its own well established support base among those with an interest in Metaphysics). In fact, it seems as if most folks would prefer to select their view of Reality from a menu handed to them by the Metaphysics establishment, instead of allowing themselves the freedom to poke around for themselves and see what there is that might've been either overlooked or misinterpreted by those who've made the most noise with their own grand discoveries.

I've already laid out my own problems with literally every premise offered by posters in this thread and others like it, so I wont bother going into detail again on what I have discovered on my own, and why I can't embrace what's become scripture for many who post here. What I do want to do is simply encourage each reader of these kinds of discussions to not limit yourself to the items on the menu when taking on the very serious effort of making heads or tails out of what IS, as opposed to what has been claimed by others TO BE and subsequently amplified by acolytes to the status of sacred knowledge.

The truth is that while perceptions can be whatever the mind allows, there is only one version of reality. The chances that it is not reflected by one of these notions posted in this thread (and others like it) are pretty good, regardless of how well any one of them is defended by its apologist. The key to determining the viability of any stated premise is that whatever it is that genuinely reflects the reality of the human being and its unique place within the existential whole, it makes perfect sense in connection with the most mundane and commonplace tenets of what we already know about physical reality. From cell division to supernovas, from falling in love to wondering why anything exists at all, the truth about reality isn't and can't be isolated from anything and everything that exists regardless of the level of that existence. And, even if the sales presentation of that premise has been expertly crafted to spin that isolation into sheer elegance, if that isolation exists, then the premise, itself, is simply not viable. And if the premise devolves into the firm denial of any objective reality whatsoever, then that obvious surrender speaks rather boldly for itself.

Embrace whatever you wish, and failure is an option. In fact, the chances are overwhelming that you'll never know the basic nature of reality, regardless of how many incarnations you believe lay before you. Nothing owes you an answer, and no one is tasked with telling you the truth about who and what you are, or why you exist. You're literally on your own in this endeavor, and the axiom "Buyer Beware" is probably the best advice available - well, if any of this actually matters to you beyond the very natural human need to belong to one point of view or another.

I guess that's all I wanted to add to this exchange. Carry on.

Originally posted by NorEaster
In fact, it seems as if most folks would prefer to select their view of Reality from a menu handed to them by the Metaphysics establishment, instead of allowing themselves the freedom to poke around for themselves and see what there is that might've been either overlooked or misinterpreted by those who've made the most noise with their own grand discoveries.

While their current choices were preordained, let's hope that changes.

Originally posted by NorEaster
What I do want to do is simply encourage each reader of these kinds of discussions to not limit yourself to the items on the menu when taking on the very serious effort of making heads or tails out of what IS, as opposed to what has been claimed by others TO BE and subsequently amplified by acolytes to the status of sacred knowledge.

You forgot the third side a coin, the Edge. The Edge is to a coin, what Time is the the Universe/Source. It binds the two primary sides together as One Coin, just as Time binds the two spacial dimensions together as One Universe/Source.

"Everything is Relative to Source and Source is Relative to Everything."

Ribbit

reply to post by ButtUglyToad


"The guys from Aldeberan" is a metaphor for the idea of so-called superior intelligences, grays, reptilians, what have you...anything that takes the place of and externalizes the god concept., which is what your Collective whatever does.

As far as the one dimension goes, nope never been there cause it doesn't exist, save as a mental construct. Present me with some actual proof of its existence and I'm willing to change my mind on it, but from where I stand it's just another silly notion like heaven or hell.

It saddening when people create stuff like that out of thin air, because it does detract from and lessen the wonder and beauty of what truly is by making a nonexistent and non-reachable place the place where true beauty, love, and all the rest reside, instead of here. Externalizing it diminishes the here and now, opening the way for tolerance of evil, ugliness, and general crap to be tolerated and endured, because the really good stuff is awaiting you when you die.

Live each life fully, make each life count, leave the world a better place than what you found it when you die, so that when you are reborn, as you will be, it will be a better place to live in.

Would we have the same environmental carelessness occurring if people understood that they'll be coming back to it?

Originally posted by apacheman
reply to post by ButtUglyToad

 

"The guys from Aldeberan" is a metaphor for the idea of so-called superior intelligences, grays, reptilians, what have you...anything that takes the place of and externalizes the god concept., which is what your Collective whatever does.

As far as the one dimension goes, nope never been there cause it doesn't exist, save as a mental construct. Present me with some actual proof of its existence and I'm willing to change my mind on it, but from where I stand it's just another silly notion like heaven or hell.

It saddening when people create stuff like that out of thin air, because it does detract from and lessen the wonder and beauty of what truly is by making a nonexistent and non-reachable place the place where true beauty, love, and all the rest reside, instead of here. Externalizing it diminishes the here and now, opening the way for tolerance of evil, ugliness, and general crap to be tolerated and endured, because the really good stuff is awaiting you when you die.

Live each life fully, make each life count, leave the world a better place than what you found it when you die, so that when you are reborn, as you will be, it will be a better place to live in.

Would we have the same environmental carelessness occurring if people understood that they'll be coming back to it?

God/Source is the Collective, it's a shared Consciousness. You read into my "thoughts" and got something I didn't say.

It is you that is making stuff up out of thin air, when the truth surrounds you but it's clear you haven't been keeping up with the Hubble Pics, nor the new findings from NASA and the likes. It's said the truth is within We and that's more true than you could possibly imagine, but you can't see past the body to see the brain.

sprott.physics.wisc.edu...

Ribbit

reply to post by ButtUglyToad


Missed the Hubble pics?

No way...they're stunningly beautiful. I've been a sci-fi fan all my life, and have always had a keen interest in all things in space.

I also keep an eye on quantum physics, the current state of the various "theories of everything" and numerous other aspects of both the physical and metaphysical worlds. (As an aside, have you seen the equations of the the surfer-physicist whose theory of everything is currently considered best? Beautifully elegant work...he did a sort of Rubik's cube thing with dimensions.)

But none of it leads me to posit a holding place for all consciousness that is itself a superior being.

I will go so far as to say that if, indeed there is a god, then you are it...and so am I...and so is the tiniest thing imaginable. But once there, where are we? Not in any very useful place.

Personally, I like the world, for all its faults and trials, and strive to make it better for all I can. I don't mind coming back.

Originally posted by apacheman
reply to post by ButtUglyToad

 

Missed the Hubble pics?

No way...they're stunningly beautiful. I've been a sci-fi fan all my life, and have always had a keen interest in all things in space.

I also keep an eye on quantum physics, the current state of the various "theories of everything" and numerous other aspects of both the physical and metaphysical worlds. (As an aside, have you seen the equations of the the surfer-physicist whose theory of everything is currently considered best? Beautifully elegant work...he did a sort of Rubik's cube thing with dimensions.)

But none of it leads me to posit a holding place for all consciousness that is itself a superior being.

I will go so far as to say that if, indeed there is a god, then you are it...and so am I...and so is the tiniest thing imaginable. But once there, where are we? Not in any very useful place.

Personally, I like the world, for all its faults and trials, and strive to make it better for all I can. I don't mind coming back.

"God is always inside We and We are always inside God, for God is ONE and the Center of the Universe and Everything is God and We are ONE with God, so We are also at the Center of the Universe, no matter where We are and including the fact We are stuck in the Middle of time forever, then . . . .

We are Inside Everything and Everything is Inside We, all the while being stuck in the Middle of Time at the Center of the Universe for an Eternity." - Old Toad Proverb

What you have missed, when you've looked at the hubble pics, is every spiral galaxy doesn't have ONE massive black hole at its center, but rather, TWO and they are back-to-back and directional and nothing more than Doorways between this spacial dimension and the other spacial dimension.

You speak of a surfer dude but I dew knot need to see his Theory of Everything, you've already said enough to tell me it's based on a Closed System Universe (aka: 2nd Law of Thermodynamics applies), when the Universe is PERFECT ORDER and an Open System and it's the black holes that create that Open System. Also, the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics dictates that Perpetual Motion of the 3rd Kind cannot exist in a Closed System but it kNot only can exist in a Open System, it does exist.

What part of a spherical magnetic device, with billions of magnetic orbs revolving around a center, haven't you seen in those huge magneto generators known as spiral galaxies?

Why haven't you ever looked at the Expanding Universe Theory, which dictates the Universe is expanding at the speed of Light, and asked that simple question . . . What if it is Light? What if it's the Light that was created when our galaxy was born, considering our galaxy is right in the middle of that bubble they say is the edge of the Universe?

Why haven't you ever had the notion that if all Life on this planet has DNA, is it possible for matter to have a Sub-atomic Genetic Coding to it too?

Why haven't you looked at atoms and wondered how those little Electrons, Protrons, & Neutrons manage to exist with no enclosure to them, like possibly a skin, like 2 nuclei and 3 Trons (inner nuclei is the nucleus and the outer nuclei is the skin and when it's recycled, by being drawn into a "innie" black hole that opens up from a star collapsing, with the spacial dimension under this one being INVERTED and thus, NEGATIVE in nature and thus, POLARITY/MAGNETISM draws the matter in, kNot gravity, and the molecule of matter is INVERTED, by being taken to finite, by the nature of the other spacial dimension, then it is inverted, then it reverts in size, just like an Inverted Focal Length, to then be collected at the "center" of that spacial dimension for the birth of a new galaxy and that's true Anti-matter and the difference between it and POSITIVE matter in this dimension, is the outer skin becomes the nucleus and the nucleus becomes the outer skin and the Trons are revolving backwards and the nuclei is flexible and capable of repairing itself, just like YOUR skin)?

Why dew you think YOU are Life and refuse to look at the Universe with eyes of Life?

I don't just say this, the new data backs it up. Nasa has recently found that matter is being ejected out of the massive DUAL center black holes at the center of EVERY spiral galaxy and the Order of the Universe, by itself, dictates the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics doesn't apply, so what the heck have you been kNot reading and what Hubble pics have you kNot seen?

Ribbit

Ps: The Mathematical Center of the Universe is ONE!

Pps: There are only THREE Dimensions, 2 of space and ONE of Time! Your Closed System Theories of Everything are based on flawed science, thus, kNot worth the paper they are written on.

Ppps: kNot only is your space science backwards, so is your math. The Space-Time of numbers isn't in-between the numbers, it's the number itself and the reason they screwed that up is because the Space-Time of numbers was figured out by a few boys named Aristotle, Plato, Socrates, etc . . . and they were using Roman Numerals, which don't have a ZERO and without zero, you cannot define Time properly and by assigning the Space-Time backwards, that's why the math world can't see finite! Finite exists!

reply to post by Marlborough Red


i Strongly believe in reincarnation.
i even have flashbacks of my previous lives, multiples of them.
i mean yeah that sounds insane and all but.

still.

reply to post by ButtUglyToad


Okay, I'm familiar with most of the factual matter you presented, but in no way does that lead to godhood. None of that proves, or even implies a god.

Why do you feel such a compelling need for an external god?

There is indeed a fractal aspect to the world because nature is efficient and is constantly filing off the serial numbers and giving stuff a new paint job, but when we look under the hood it's the same mechanism. What works, works, and is used repeatedly.

So what?

I don't need a god to feel empathy, or to be decent or to understand the universe. The parts I can't explain yet are merely parts I haven't enough information on. I'm patient, though, and am willing to wait a few more lifetimes or as many as it takes to learn more and understand more.

Gods are an unnecessary and non-functional embellishment of reality, or rather counter-functional: they retard understanding, not enhance it.

In the meantime, I am content with my knowledge and my memories. For me, the ultimate test has been met and passed: I have met friends and lovers from lifetimes past, and we have shared our memories of those past times to a degree that precludes doubt of their reality.

The worst part about reincarnation is how you lose track of your loved ones in time and space, and how long it takes to meet again well-matched in age and other aspects.

P.S.: I assume you think it's cute and individual to misuse words like dew, for do, and knot for not, but it really isn't. Rather it comes off as childish pretentiousness, and doesn't add anything to the weight of your arguments.

Originally posted by apacheman
reply to post by ButtUglyToad

 

Okay, I'm familiar with most of the factual matter you presented, but in no way does that lead to godhood. None of that proves, or even implies a god.

Why do you feel such a compelling need for an external god?

There is indeed a fractal aspect to the world because nature is efficient and is constantly filing off the serial numbers and giving stuff a new paint job, but when we look under the hood it's the same mechanism. What works, works, and is used repeatedly.

So what?

I don't need a god to feel empathy, or to be decent or to understand the universe. The parts I can't explain yet are merely parts I haven't enough information on. I'm patient, though, and am willing to wait a few more lifetimes or as many as it takes to learn more and understand more.

Gods are an unnecessary and non-functional embellishment of reality, or rather counter-functional: they retard understanding, not enhance it.

In the meantime, I am content with my knowledge and my memories. For me, the ultimate test has been met and passed: I have met friends and lovers from lifetimes past, and we have shared our memories of those past times to a degree that precludes doubt of their reality.

The worst part about reincarnation is how you lose track of your loved ones in time and space, and how long it takes to meet again well-matched in age and other aspects.

P.S.: I assume you think it's cute and individual to misuse words like dew, for do, and knot for not, but it really isn't. Rather it comes off as childish pretentiousness, and doesn't add anything to the weight of your arguments.

I get that from pretentious types all the time.

Ask yourself a "hypothetical" question . . .

What if you were a finite piece of pure energy, with a eternal power source to re-power you and you are indestructable, thus, after being born, you exist for an eternity and you and your quintillions of brothers and sisters cannot be harmed in any shape, form, or fashion, and you exist surrounded by Perfect Order, thus there is kNOw Chaos, and you have the knowledge of the Universe at your conscious disposal, with the ability to dew ANYTHING, including REPLICATING Worlds, to include Solar Systems, and even Carbon Based Lifeforms, down to the very grain of sand on any and all beaches, down to the same number of freckles on your butt, down to the exact placement of stars for constellations, how would you learn about Chaos?

What makes you think God/Source is responsible for all of this by herself?

Did you build your fort in the back yard or did you have your dad build it, then you played in/with it?

Did you have your dad build your sand castles for you at the beach, then you played with them?

Did you have your dad go to skewl to get your education for you, or did you go to skewl and dew it yourself?

What part of the CHILDREN of Zion did you kNot get in the Matrix?

Ribbit