Are Spanish Muslims Waging an Anti-Dog Jihad by Poisoning Them?

reply to post by nusnus


Then my friend, you are the Muslim that the world needs. If only people, of all religions, had your upbringing and spin on life, there would be none of this and we could get on with our lives.

reply to post by TheLoneArcher


Thats very kind of you. There are a lot of people out there like me, but we are quiet folk and we live normal lives in normal neighborhoods, sometimes we are poor....who am I kidding...we are always poor but we manage. And we don't like to attract attention to ourselves. So we never make it to the front pages of the daily news.

However, the sheer number of bad news I hear about Muslims recently has me worried that we're not doing enough to educate our own kids. Somehow somewhere somethings are going wrong.

Or maybe like my grandma says, men need a war to wage every 10 years. Maybe its just in their blood and since it doesn't come out so easily it twists their heads. Am not sure. But at least you can rest assured that even tho we may not agree, I respect your right to say so.

reply to post by nusnus


I hear you. Regardless of what some may think, my rant is not against Islam, it is against radicals. Yes Christian ones too. These elements just defoul the values of the true meaning.

Actually, my rant is over radicals that think that it is okay to go around the streets poisoning dogs, not strays but dogs that have a loving home.

Muslims consider dogs to be filthy. They consider non-muslims to be only slightly less filthy.

The muslims, out of frustration at not being able to slaughter the kuffars, have decided to kill the next filthiest thing on their list. Dogs.

It can be taken as fact that, were things just a little bit more in favor of the muslims, those would be the corpses of non-muslims, not dogs.

The Jihad is real and it not going away until non-muslims the planet over decide that they have had enough and begin to push back the advancing front of the Islamic Empire.

reply to post by nusnus

Sahi muslim 3811 book of transaction: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) ordered the killing of dogs and we would send (men) in Medina and its corners and we did not spare any dog that we did not kill, so much so that we killed the dog that accompanied the wet she-camel belonging to the people of the desert.

This quote is from my original post. Can you shed some light on it for us? You say you're a Muslim studying for 20 years. I'm not. I have Google, and that's that. Which isn't saying much. I'd truly appreciate your insight into the quote.

I've got this link but honestly I don't know enough about it to even comment other than to say it looks like something taken out of context, though, there was still a mandate to kill dogs.

Thank you so much.

peace

The article in the OP is very disturbing. I've had a Siberian Huskie for 14 years and I would lose it if anything like this happened in my neighborhood.

I had no idea that some radical islamic groups were also against dogs.

reply to post by Humanity4Ever

The article in the OP is very disturbing. I've had a Siberian Huskie for 14 years and I would lose it if anything like this happened in my neighborhood.

Yes, sad but true. Dogs are unacceptable to (fanatical) Muslim fanatics, and, I would assume some who are not fanatics also.

I've recently been through hell with a puppy of mine who was poisoned and I lost her (after) to underlying problems brought on by the poisoning. I can honestly say if I found the person who did it - in my moment of pain and rage - I probably would have been terribly tempted to do the person some damage. I can only hope the hypocrisy of the situation would have hit me in the head like a hammer before I hit them. But I do understand, from my heart, your sentiments.

peace

reply to post by silo13


I am so sorry to hear about your puppy. I've lost my previous dog due to natural causes and it was excrutiating. I can only imagine what it must feel like when foul play is involved.

Silo13, I WOULD appreciate if you could find any unbiased proper news sources for this stuff, I have tried searching as well, and couldn't find anything outside of blogs and such that were obviously with an agenda against islam.

Is this even really happening?
If it is, are muslims even nominally being considered as the perpetrators?
Was it just some writer with a bias who wrote in her blog, and then had it spread around?


Anyhow, nusnus mentioned salafis, and while they have some practices that are...well...not really good and nice all the time, they generally wouldn't go against their scriptures, and the scriptures are quite clear. In fact, the hadith you quoted was in part of a chapter that gave the whole picture: The incident arose after the wild dogs in the city became a nuisance of the people there, and the order was given. Then the killing of the dog that belonged to the bedouins occurred and was found to be wrong, and was then forbidden. Only the wild dogs were to be killed, and those that were domesticated, or used for hunting or shepherding or used to watch the fields were not to be touched. There is one hadith that says that the black dog with small eyes is to be killed, but this has been universally accepted by most schools of Islamic thought to be an inauthentic hadith that is based on pre-islamic traditions.


All this isn't some "moderate" interpretation of the stuff either. It is quite clear in the text.


While their saliva is considered unclean (eg. you have to wash yourself again to pray if you get licked, and if you plan on using the same bowl that you fed them in, it must be washed thoroughly), there is no allowance to kill them, certainly not those that belong to someone else. While some more conservative schools of muslim thought may say that (aside from as guard dogs or work,) dogs are not allowed to be kept on the property, there is certainly nothing against being out in public where there are dogs, or that their presence is an offense, so they must be killed, as the articles you posted suggest.

In fact, as nusnus said, good treatment of ALL animals is imperative. There is a story of how a prostitute saw a thirsty dog on the street, so she gave it some water from a nearby well, and all her sins were forgiven.

Another Islamic tradition states how some dogs will be allowed in heaven, giving the example of the Seven Sleepers of Ephesus, who went into a cave to escape persecution from romans because of their christian religion, and fell asleep, and woke up years later, when christianity was no longer being persecuted. All this time, their dog watched over them.

So yeah....these articles... They are quite obviously a case of muslim-bashing...I mean, look at the title of the linked article! "Are Spanish Muslims Waging an Anti-Dog Jihad by Poisoning Them?"
Are they serious?

My condolences for your pup, I too lost a dog to what was ruled as poisoning. One of my dogs was a little barky sometimes (which isn't surprising, considering the number wild dogs roaming about in my area), and so someone decided to take matters into their own hands and punish her. Not that it would've been okay if they had got the right one, but it was sad and ironic that they got the wrong, quiet dog.

So yeah...I've raised my walls and let them roam my backyard now when they need exercise.

reply to post by babloyi
I’ve been looking through scads of print - From David Icke’s to the New English Review and everything in between and more. Seriously there are pages and pages of links - but - do I know what news brokers are ‘unbiased’ and what are not? Sadly, no I don’t.

Thank you for your post. Well put, eloquent, and very informative. I hope I’m not the only one that reads it and enjoys it.

peace

reply to post by silo13

Well, I meant more a proper news source rather than a opinion websites or blog type things. David Icke's blog or New English review aren't so much news sources as they are platforms for the people involved to give their views on the news.

Something like the (news, not the op-ed or comment pieces of) BBC, or Reuters or Assosicated Press, or the New York Times or even CNN or Fox or Al-Jazeera. Or El País or El Mundo, since we are talking about an incident in Spain.
You know, a proper news source!

UPDATE:
Checking spanish news sites (the link you posted had scans of Spanish newspapers), I found the articles!

Segre: Report on the poisoning of a dozen dogs in La Bordeta
La Razón: Catch the Pet Poisoner
La Mañana: Report on the poisoning of 15 dogs in La Bordeta

I'd link the google translated versions of these articles, however, ATS has a habit of messing up links like that. You can do it yourself by going to Google Translate, pasting the link into the box, and pressing enter.

NONE of these sources make any mention at all about any possible muslim involvement. The most it says is that one of the people in the neighbourhood said it was probably someone who is annoyed with neighbours who have dogs.

So the alleged muslim angle is just something added AFTER the fact by people/groups that want to paste this in an anti-muslim light.

reply to post by babloyi

Thanks for the updates. (Oh and I was making a lame joke about David Ikes)

Anyway - I'll keep looking for something in English. I appreciate the Spanish sites but I've no more faith in 'real' information from them, than biased news here. NO reflection on you and thank you again.

Added note: Be careful when using Google for translations. It's horrible.

Off to keep looking!

peace

reply to post by silo13


Its stuff like this that people take without historical references and then just make conclusions. Everyone knows Hadith are not meant to be studied on their own. When I took Hadith studies they taught us every historical event that lead to that hadith. The particular hadith was something the prophet said about rabid dogs or for a particular time and not in general. They have never taught us that killing dogs, or any other animal for no reason is allowed. It is only allowed if it poses a danger to you.

The particular website does not include the explanations but concerns itself with the collection of the info. I personally think whoever collected the hadith should have collected the relative event that lead to it.

For example, there is a hadith about the reward of a man who gave water to a thirsty dog. There is also a hadith about how a dog peed in the mosque and they just threw water on the dirty area and did not even kick the dog out.

There are soooo many hadiths about being kind to animals and etc, it doesn't make sense to take something out of context and then apply it. Islam is a religion as a whole, it needs to be studied as such.

I hope that answers your question.

As for my personal conviction on keeping dogs, I do keep mine in my apartment, she's not allowed in my bedroom or the kitchen because she's a golden retriever and sheds a lot so I like to keep some part of my house clean of fur if you know what I mean. But whenever I read hadith I know in my heart that there is a good reason for it. So I use my brain and consider that back in those days they probably did not bother potty training dogs, hence they peed whenever they felt like it. Dogs probably ate whatever they found out on the street and hence had unclean saliva. Although I had a discussion about this with my dad and he feels that all animals are dirty to an extent, because they are animals and will put whatever they feel like it in their mouths sometimes you can't control that. Hence a Muslim is taught to make decisions based on 1. Quran and Hadith, 2. their common sense dictates.

Hence life is easy and not hard or made hard for anybody. Hope that helps.

reply to post by nusnus
thank you very much for the explanation. It does really help to gain a much better, and I believe much more accurate insight into the situation.

I hope others who've followed the progression of this thread see the original report for what it is, and if not, read these explanations and think again.

peace

reply to post by silo13


None of the article's sources actually lay blame at the feet of Muslims. That is in fact the fabricated scenario presented by Right Side News, a site which offers such articles as "FACT: Israel Only Country on Earth with G-d Given Borders " and "A Marxist Takeover of D.C.’s Freedom Plaza" - take these headlines as you will.

reply to post by silo13


Google translate is very effective at translating news articles, since they aren't usually written with much dialect or slang. Might want to check it out.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox

Google translate is very effective at translating news articles, since they aren't usually written with much dialect or slang. Might want to check it out.

Maybe in Spanish but not in German and Italian. Believe me I speak both and Google is constantly wrong. To the point of embarrassment in fact. Then again maybe they've changed a good deal recently. I'll take your info and try it out. *Wink*

On topic - I'm still looking for more articles and more news.

I'm not saying the articles posted in Spanish are wrong, but every news source has their own agenda, not just anti-Muslim newsprint.

I want to know why the Spanish articles didn't report the poisonings being contributed to Muslims. Because it's fact? Or are they biased in another direction? Who owns those Spanish newspapers would be the first place to look.

Honestly I wouldn't doubt if the news (I posted) isn't slanted - but - I wont do an 'either or' just to seem politically correct.

peace

Hey just seen this thread.

While I agree with everything you're saying...you should try and walk through that 'barrio' without stepping on dog poo.

Now I have a dog and love him very much and if anyone done anything to him and I found out who it was, i'd crush them.

Now I live in Spain, north and I know some places you cannot even walk.

It's like this, a guy walks out of his block of flats and crosses the road, walks past the square and into a dirty estate with no plastic bag. "Here mate, just lay one out on the ground, no probs". Without any consideration for people who might be walking past or kids who live in the area and play there.

I think that's a major issue in this problem. There's some estates where the cops dont even go in. Then across the road there's other estates full of cops and anyone caught littering will be fined.
Different story on the other side of the road.

That's what pisses me off.

But poisoning the dogs is not the way to tackle this problem. Damn..