Time for Imperial America to rise!

All you're missing is the music...

Originally posted by alfa1

Originally posted by spw184
We need a emperor to take control of our situation

sigh
yeah, ok, i'll do it.
I wasn't going to, but since you're in a desperate situation and asked nicely, I'll reluctantly take the job.

But I demand a big palace. Not that white house shack.

Substitute palace for a warm towel, and you got it!

Originally posted by OccupyPlanet
every emperor needs a joker,
can i be... the joker.

ATS already filled the position with this guy:

reply to post by Papagrune


He has basically an amoral Princeton professor become President, and he uses the American imperial powers to redraw the lines around the world and nations through spreading a plague in one instance, using an attack in another, all the while hiding behind responsibility. Take a look. It's good work by Card, and if you liked Ender, you'll like this.

You rang?

Here is this womans story. Hear her out, she will blow your mind. About america NOW. www.youtube.com... I highly recommend you see the whole video. An eye openner, you will be shocked.

Originally posted by cloaked4u
Here is this womans story. Hear her out, she will blow your mind. About america NOW. www.youtube.com... I highly recommend you see the whole video. An eye openner, you will be shocked.

Thanks, Ill watch that when I have time

in a way it already has, with short term public leaders of the Empire, there will never be an emperor over another,
they all serve equally in these times to delicately balance the wills of those under their full control.

Originally posted by yourmaker
in a way it already has, with short term public leaders of the Empire, there will never be an emperor over another,
they all serve equally in these times to delicately balance the wills of those under their full control.

ATM, you are correct but The minute martial law gets put into effect, a shorterm civil war will erupt and the empire will be unified under one leader.

Originally posted by starwarsisreal
Actually before the empire there will be a second american civil war just like when rome gets it own civil war before the rise of their empire

The first US Civil War resulted in Lincoln getting Russia's help and the entire Atlantic and Pacific Naval fleets of Russia to port in Union Ports. It was RUSSIA who demanded slavery be ended, not Lincoln.

Russia helped Americans kill their fellow Americans and went on to rob and pillage the south and even forbid them from voting.

The ONLY way there will be a 2nd American Civil War is if the Lefty's in California get China to side with them to slaughter Republicans and seize their industry to create a Communist/Democracy heaven they dream of as they dance over the dead bodies of their fellow Americans.

....It's not too far fetched. Democrats when they are out of other peoples money always lead to War.

reply to post by spw184


The rise of a stratocratic principate in the US appears to be inevitable.

We have been facing many of the same social problems that lead to the collapse of the Roman Republic and rise of the Empire.

Among the Founders, especially Franklin and Jefferson, when the US was born, it was intended to be a revived Roman Republic. In the Federalist Papers, the pseudonym of Publius, the first consul of Rome, was chosen as the author of the papers. The concept of Capitol, Fasces, Eagle and Senate was chosen specifically to echo Rome. Oddly, Capitol Hill itself was built upon what was Rome, Maryland. In addition, since the very foundation of the American Republic, Minerva-Pallas Athena has been shown on coins, in sculpture and paintings as the Palladium of the Columbian Republic just as she was of Rome. She is the Alma Mater of the Republic. Her image adorns the campuses of our universities, stands upon the dome of the US Capitol, is displayed on our Medals of Honor, US coins, the fresco inside the US Capitol dome, and the greatest example sits in the harbor of New York City.

Franklin himself knew somehow we would become a world power, an "Empire of Liberty" as he called it. The fresco in the US Capitol dome from the end of the US Civil War, "The Apotheosis of George Washington" shows the Roman gods guiding the Republic in the Industrial Revolution and on its Manifest Destiny, while welcoming Washington into the Olympian Aethyr as a new god.

From looking at our history, one can seen this concept of American or Columbian Empire is neither new or unfounded. It has been with us since the dawn of the Novus Ordo Seclorum. Even that phrase, taken from the writings of the Roman poet Virgil, envisions in the original writings the return of the Roman gods to restore their justice and their lineage to the earth.

So here we are at the threshold, facing insurmountable debt and social crises, just as Rome before, when it faced massive urban unemployment, out of control growth of the corporate Latifundium, and the massive expansion of government welfare. Like Rome before, we face growing angry mobs and social movements pushing for distribution of wealth. As in Rome, two political parties, one conservative and the other liberal, the Optimates and the Populares, struggled for power in the late Republic. The Populares, favored the plebian mobs and gangs, while the Optimates were for the wealthy elite patricians and latifundia.

The rise of the Populares in the late Republic would lead to populist civil rights movements in Rome. Two brothers stood at the forefront of that movement and their assassinations by the Optimates, in many ways mark the decline of the Republic. From the time of their assassinations to the fall, there would be riots, protests, terrorism, revolts, and uprisings. The final act that broke the back of the Republic was over whether citizenship would be granted to the Latins and the assassination of the Roman political leader fighting for them to be given citizenship.

His assassination would result in a Latin revolt and war against an alliance of free Latin states. In the end, the revolt was crushed and the Latin alliance was defeated and conquered. Out of that war, two great generals emerged, Marius and Sulla. Both would grow in power and popularity. They would become great rivals and their struggle would destroy the Republic.

After political riots broke out in the capital, that began at the Forum and almost resulted in the death of Sulla, Sulla fled Rome, but then returned with legions and for the first time in Roman history, a Roman commander lead legions in a march on Rome. Even though most of Sulla's commanders abandoned him, he justified the coup as the restoration of Roman constitutional law and order, while demonizing Marius and his followers as enemies of the state. Marius and a populist political leader, Cinna, who had fought for Latin rights and citizenship, would raise an army and march on Rome. The populist army would commit a number of atrocities in its march on Rome, reminiscent of the Jacobins and Bolsheviks. During this time, Cinna would become a quasi dictator, while the Republic suffered financial collapse, primarily from numerous prior wars overseas. He would fight for Latin rights and citizenship while also facing the threat of a civil war from Sulla. In preparation of imminent civil war, Cinna suspended all elections.

Sulla pledged to restore the government and also promised the Latins, he would not take way their new citizenship. Part of the military defected to Sulla and he then began his campaign with his commander Pompey, winning major victories against the forces of the populist dictatorship. Sulla was victorious and the Roman Senate and Assembly of the People would enact law making Sulla absolute dictator without any term limit, ending the Republic.

In many ways this is both our recent past and our near future.

reply to post by MikeboydUS


Finally! Sombody agrees with meh

reply to post by spw184


There will be no saving the republic. No emperor, no savior, no revolution, just a steady decline, becoming an old obscure nation that had a chance at greatness and a utopia but we chose a Corporate oligarchy and blew it!

Welcome to the monkey house!

Originally posted by whaaa
reply to post by spw184

 

There will be no saving the republic. No emperor, no savior, no revolution, just a steady decline, becoming an old obscure nation that had a chance at greatness and a utopia but we chose a Corporate oligarchy and blew it!

Welcome to the monkey house!

Thanks for being optimistic.

Originally posted by spw184

Originally posted by whaaa
reply to post by spw184

 

There will be no saving the republic. No emperor, no savior, no revolution, just a steady decline, becoming an old obscure nation that had a chance at greatness and a utopia but we chose a Corporate oligarchy and blew it!

Welcome to the monkey house!

Thanks for being optimistic.

You call being ruled by an emperor being optimistic.

That's a worse tyranny than we are experiencing now!!!

At least the Romans had an Art and Culture....we have happy meals and Brittany Spears....

Perhaps America could become great once again if there was some conscience raising event that would spark new social innovation and a spirit of brother hood. But the current atmosphere of divisiveness and animosity will ultimately be our undoing. It's probably to late...sorry!

If you want to prepare for the future; I suggest you learn to speak Chinese....

God help us!

reply to post by whaaa


Forget everything you have seen in film and television.

The Greeks had art and culture. The Romans borrowed some of it, but the Romans were far more of a people that loved spectacles and parties. They looked for any excuse to have a parade, a holiday, or a feast.

These guys had the NASCAR and WWE/UFC/NFL of the ancient world. They are the ones who gave us Christmas and Carnaval. Like many Americans, the Romans just wanted to have fun.

They loved to buy useless crap. The first shopping Mall in the world wasn't in America, it was in ancient Rome. They liked shopping for the newest fashions and other junk. They were far more materialist than the Greeks.

They were also quite conservative in comparison to Greece or even modern Republicans, just look up the laws on adultery and sodomy, even during the empire, in the Roman legal system.

They had far more in common with Americans than most people realize.

reply to post by spw184


I don't agree with that timeline, but I agree in principle that our history has shown that we will likely evolve into some form of a stratocratic principate this century.

Right now we are in the middle of the struggle between the Populares and the Optimates. I had a history professor that showed from the time of JFK to now we seem to be mirroring the last days of the Roman Republic.

When the Republic collapsed, it was bankrupt from foreign wars, recovering from a massive internal revolt by non-citizens, war with the nations the non-citizens came from, and suffering from a populist dictatorship that had taken over after a failed military coup.

If the US follows that path, we will see the emergence of a movement on the left fighting for citizenship for illegal immigrants lead by a charismatic politician. He will be assassinated by people on the right, leading to revolt by illegal immigrants and war with a number of Latin American nations.

In the aftermath of that war, the US will be bankrupt and the government useless. In response, a right wing military coup will try to restore the country, but a left wing military counter coup lead by another charismatic populist politician will drive the junta out of power, leading to a brief time where the US looks like its sliding into socialism and communist dictatorship.

The leaders of the right wing coup will strike back, which will culminate in short second US civil war. In the aftermath, the right wing leaders will be given power by the Congress, leading to a military state while they reform the constitution and legal system. That will be the end of the Republic.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by spw184

 

I don't agree with that timeline, but I agree in principle that our history has shown that we will likely evolve into some form of a stratocratic principate this century.

Right now we are in the middle of the struggle between the Populares and the Optimates. I had a history professor that showed from the time of JFK to now we seem to be mirroring the last days of the Roman Republic.

When the Republic collapsed, it was bankrupt from foreign wars, recovering from a massive internal revolt by non-citizens, war with the nations the non-citizens came from, and suffering from a populist dictatorship that had taken over after a failed military coup.

If the US follows that path, we will see the emergence of a movement on the left fighting for citizenship for illegal immigrants lead by a charismatic politician. He will be assassinated by people on the right, leading to revolt by illegal immigrants and war with a number of Latin American nations.

In the aftermath of that war, the US will be bankrupt and the government useless. In response, a right wing military coup will try to restore the country, but a left wing military counter coup lead by another charismatic populist politician will drive the junta out of power, leading to a brief time where the US looks like its sliding into socialism and communist dictatorship.

The leaders of the right wing coup will strike back, which will culminate in short second US civil war. In the aftermath, the right wing leaders will be given power by the Congress, leading to a military state while they reform the constitution and legal system. That will be the end of the Republic.

See, Im pretty sure that the whole "Right/left wing" issues will dissolve like chalk in water.

reply to post by spw184


It won't totally go away, at least until the dawn of the Principate.

In Rome, both parties struggled until the rise of the Second Triumvirate and the ascension of Octavius to Princeps.

Examples:
The military dictator Sulla was an Optimate (Conservative).
His commander Pompey was an Optimate, but became a Populare (Liberal) during the First Triumvirate. He switched back to an Optimate in the civil war against Caesar after the collapse of the Triumvirate.
Sulla's other commander Crassus, who became the richest man in Roman history, became a Populare and part of the First Triumvirate.
Julius Caesar, member of the First Triumvirate and later the second absolute dictator after Sulla, was a Populare who was assassinated by Optimates.
The Second Triumvirate would see the Optimates defeated on the battlefield and both Optimates and Populares purged through proscriptions carried out by the Roman equivalents of secret police and death squads.

The interesting thing about those who argue for the demise of the American Empire is that they too readily discount that while our financial system may be in shambles, America still has the largest and strongest military.

To use the Roman metaphor, while the system of tribute, plunder, and overextension ultimately became untenable, it was able to sustain the system for many years with new wealth so long as the legions could continue their expansion. If we look to American foreign policy especally with regards to resource extraction, in what is a limited world, it's quite possible a similiar pattern may follow.

All the economic prowess in the world will mean nothing without fuel, and with at least the potential for resource wars on the horizon, America is proactively positioning itself in all the key areas. Even if the US went into relative decline, it may still end up remaining in pre-eminence if only by being the last one standing.

The question I'd have for those writing here is what sort of event you see being possible to set up the transition from the elected rule to the permanent ruling class in form, or if you just believe the functional oligarchy is sufficient and this part of the imperial experience will be different?