OWS has the right to challenge this corrupt system.

Yes, you do have the right to protest... by every legal means. That is the "American way"

No.... you don't have to explain your viewpoint or why you are protesting.

However, if you are the only one that knows why you are upset,...how can the problem be fixed.

Kinda' like asking my wife why she is mad at me..." Well, if you don't know, I am not going to tell you."

What has that solved? In order to gain support and a common theme that people can rally around in the long term, a few key points would be nice.

With the OWS crowd...I hear "down with capitalism"..."down with corruption"... "equality"...OK, so now what?...and how?... and replace it with what?

reply to post by mastahunta


Yeah, I am. And that little diatribe of my was a lot of scathing sarcastic mocking of some of the folks who are most against these protests. I especially enjoy the illogical babbling coming out of the mouths of those on the Right who keep saying that they have "entitlement issues".

reply to post by AlreadyGone


I still can't believe that people don't get the purpose of this movement. We occupy and protest together so that we may share our grievances about what is wrong in this country and brainstorm a logical way of correcting it without the corruption of those in power who are already under the influence. We don't have all the answers yet! We never said we did! We come together at these occupy events to make ALL our voices heard, and do our best to come to a general consensus. If you take the time to attend one that has had time to become organized, I believe you would be less ignorant about what your talking about. We have to start somewhere guys, and most of us can't afford to fly down to the white house and leave our jobs to protest. Think about it.

Originally posted by allclad hero
reply to post by AlreadyGone

 

I still can't believe that people don't get the purpose of this movement. We occupy and protest together so that we may share our grievances about what is wrong in this country and brainstorm a logical way of correcting it without the corruption of those in power who are already under the influence. We don't have all the answers yet! We never said we did! We come together at these occupy events to make ALL our voices heard, and do our best to come to a general consensus. If you take the time to attend one that has had time to become organized, I believe you would be less ignorant about what your talking about. We have to start somewhere guys, and most of us can't afford to fly down to the white house and leave our jobs to protest. Think about it.

If that was happening, I'd have no problem with it. It isn't happening.

reply to post by mastahunta


Sure they have the right to challenge the system.

The Tea Party and other groups, including the folks who pay the bills in this country have the right to challenge the welfare state that has been imposed on this country where 50% of all citizens pay absolutely nothing to maintain the nation at a federal level.

Regardless of what you think of the merits of their argument, the folks protesting are exactly the kinds of people who either have a resume that gets tossed in the trash or get dismissed from a job interview after about 10 minutes, just enough time to not be rude or expose the interviewer to legal/EEOC problems. They are the folks who blow work off, come in hung-over and thus do sub-par work, the folks who complain, the folks ultimately who get canned.

Obama wants to spend more money in his "jobs plan" the plan that his own party just rejected and the plan that is nothing but a class warfare campaign prop. Lets take some money and hand out jobs to 100,000 of these fools out protesting. 100K chosen at random. Lets pay them $20/hour for 8 hours of difficult work a day. Lets track their performance, attendance, etc. Lets see how many will still be at it 6 months later. My guess would be significantly less than half.

They want jobs? Lets give them decent paying jobs and soon enough we'll find out that they really don't want a job, what they want is an additional handout. A handout that will never be large enough, a handout they will be bitter to receive and a handout they are certainly not appreciative of, since they obviously are not appreciative of the handouts they currently receive.

Originally posted by dolphinfan
reply to post by mastahunta

 

Sure they have the right to challenge the system.

The Tea Party and other groups, including the folks who pay the bills in this country have the right to challenge the welfare state that has been imposed on this country where 50% of all citizens pay absolutely nothing to maintain the nation at a federal level.

Regardless of what you think of the merits of their argument, the folks protesting are exactly the kinds of people who either have a resume that gets tossed in the trash or get dismissed from a job interview after about 10 minutes, just enough time to not be rude or expose the interviewer to legal/EEOC problems. They are the folks who blow work off, come in hung-over and thus do sub-par work, the folks who complain, the folks ultimately who get canned.

How do you know any of this?

There are all kinds of people at these events from communists to Ron Paulites. It seems like another
way to disparage these people and marginalize them, which effectively negates any sort of
attempt to address the corrupt system which exists between banks and government. I understand
why you marginalize these people, it is politically expedient for to cluster everyone together and
slap as many negative labels and connotations as you can. But then you ignore the fact that you
have to live under this same system and pay for its failings on top of the taxes you pay.

Obama wants to spend more money in his "jobs plan" the plan that his own party just rejected and the plan that is nothing but a class warfare campaign prop. Lets take some money and hand out jobs to 100,000 of these fools out protesting. 100K chosen at random. Lets pay them $20/hour for 8 hours of difficult work a day. Lets track their performance, attendance, etc. Lets see how many will still be at it 6 months later. My guess would be significantly less than half.


They want jobs? Lets give them decent paying jobs and soon enough we'll find out that they really don't want a job, what they want is an additional handout. A handout that will never be large enough, a handout they will be bitter to receive and a handout they are certainly not appreciative of, since they obviously are not appreciative of the handouts they currently receive.

More disparagement is see... I think it is ignorant thinking that political ideology has anything to
do with work ethic, but you are trying to propel the great divide, I get it.

I just hope you guys don't badmouth the people that might have been in your corner, such
a broad strategy sounds pretty elitist. Hard working people don't like to be marginalized
just because they do not earn enough.

reply to post by mastahunta


I get that the system is corrupt. The banks are in bed with the government. The corporations are in bed with the government. None of its good.

There is just as much corruption between the proponents of the welfare state, minority pressure groups and big labor and the government as there is between the corporations and banks and the government, if not more. It is easy to rail against the banks. Not as easy to rail against the pressure groups who continue to effectively push the statist agenda of bigger government, more handouts, anti-competetive policies surrounding labor policy. Obama and the statists spend much more time with the heads of the Teamsters and AFL-CIO than they do with CEOs.

I guess when the corrpution involves those folks who also make millions a year who are in some organization that represents the poor and middle class who strong-arm the government for favorable treatment and other forms of government largess for political support its OK.

Why do I suggest that these are the folks who would not do a job? Because they are not at work. Because they are publically saying that they know that there are jobs available but are unwilling to work for $10/hour - that its not "fair" that they should have to. Because they are unkempt and dirty. Because they are drunk and high during the middle of the day. Because they have absolutely no coherent message other than what they want and that is something for nothing.

occupyportland.org...

Here are some examples of our General assemblies. It may take some time to decide certain things, but we all get to voice our concerns.

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...


www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by dolphinfan
reply to post by mastahunta

 

I get that the system is corrupt. The banks are in bed with the government. The corporations are in bed with the government. None of its good.

There is just as much corruption between the proponents of the welfare state, minority pressure groups and big labor and the government as there is between the corporations and banks and the government, if not more. It is easy to rail against the banks. Not as easy to rail against the pressure groups who continue to effectively push the statist agenda of bigger government, more handouts, anti-competetive policies surrounding labor policy. Obama and the statists spend much more time with the heads of the Teamsters and AFL-CIO than they do with CEOs.

The Tea Party just spent several successful years rallying against all those things.
In fact the GOP has traction thanks to the political brinksmanship of the Tea Party
movement protesting such things. The Tea Party and the GOP does not touch the
banks or the corporations because that is easily considered anti business, which
is not a tenet of conservatism.

I guess when the corrpution involves those folks who also make millions a year who are in some organization that represents the poor and middle class who strong-arm the government for favorable treatment and other forms of government largess for political support its OK.

I didn't say that... the corruption of unions does not negate the corruption of banks.

Why do I suggest that these are the folks who would not do a job? Because they are not at work. Because they are publically saying that they know that there are jobs available but are unwilling to work for $10/hour - that its not "fair" that they should have to. Because they are unkempt and dirty. Because they are drunk and high during the middle of the day. Because they have absolutely no coherent message other than what they want and that is something for nothing.

Well I understand that the TV and conservative talk radio is suggesting that the movement is comprised
of virtually everything conservative America dislikes. Communists, hippies, hipsters, drugs, unemployed
lazy people, unpatriotic apologists, Obama supporters and the whole crew of undesirables that offend
and mobilize the conservative base, which is the political point. It is not hard to find a half brain dead,
stoned hippy to scrutinize at a liberal event, just like it is not hard to find a back woods, confederate
gun nut to scrutinize at a Tea Party event. I am telling you that I have been to three of these things
and the crowd is very diverse, some unemployed, some business owners, students, some people
tak the day off work.

reply to post by dolphinfan


Wow! You are really really really biased man!

Regardless of what you think of the merits of their argument, the folks protesting are exactly the kinds of people who either have a resume that gets tossed in the trash or get dismissed from a job interview after about 10 minutes, just enough time to not be rude or expose the interviewer to legal/EEOC problems. They are the folks who blow work off, come in hung-over and thus do sub-par work, the folks who complain, the folks ultimately who get canned.

I myself work full time. I busted my ass off in highschool and got scholarships to attend the best cooking school in the states. I have rarely get turned down for a position I wanted in my career field. Not trying to toot my own horn, but I work hard. I don't get food stamps.

Lets take some money and hand out jobs to 100,000 of these fools out protesting. 100K chosen at random. Lets pay them $20/hour for 8 hours of difficult work a day. Lets track their performance, attendance, etc. Lets see how many will still be at it 6 months later. My guess would be significantly less than half.

Ok where would we take this money from? You sound like you are trying to justify others poor work ethic as a reason to why they are out protesting. F that man. I have met many hard workers out there, some being doctors and immigrants that started with nothing and have their own businesses now. Some are un-employed yes, others are not happy with the work they have.

Lets pretend I magically get funds to do your proposal. I will make this more real though. Imagine the field you are passionate about doing has shipped most their jobs overseas. The handful of jobs that are left are fought hard for and whelp, tough luck, you weren't picked. The government says hey, we can make jobs for you! We will pay you just above minimum wage for ten hours a day to work on roads and construction. Sure you might need the money and if able bodied, you could do it for a bit. But its not what you want to be doing with your life. Maybe you plan on moving to a strawberry field and picking berries all day once your worn out from road work. Point is, ARE YOU HAPPY? We all want to contribute to our society in some way. Its a common misconception that if people didn't have to work then they would just lie around and not do *%$#. Humans need purpose; we feel empty without it.

Stop generalizing us occupiers as lazy people expecting hand me outs. Not cool man.

reply to post by allclad hero


When did it become the government's job to ensure that you are "happy"? Why should anyone be concerned about your happiness other than yourself and perhaps your family and closest friends? You have no right to expect the taxpayers of this country to feed a government so that it can make you happy.

If you are looking for happiness in your life from your work, you are looking in the wrong place. In my experience, few people find true happiness in their work. They might enjoy it, they might find it interesting and they might find it rewarding, but they don't find happiness. Look to your family, faith and community to find happiness. Look there to make a difference. Volunteer, spend time with your family, find a hobby you love, but don't look for happiness in what you are doing for a living.

Having lived in Europe for a time, the biggest difference in the general attitude between Europeans and Americans is that Europeans work to live while Americans live to work. Thats a cultural thing and its also why Europeans are more well rounded and generally happier.

Economies go through transition. Horse breeders and wagon makers were displaced by the auto industry. Bank tellers displaced by ATMs. At the moment postal workers are largely being displaced by electronic banking and on-line shopping. Industries change, economies change and there always will be economic disruption. Its unfortunate, but it happens. Job outsourcing is fueled by a number of factors, including consumers seeking lowest cost options. It has been no mystery that there are certain types of jobs that are being pushed outside of the US. It is the responsibility of the individual to have some awareness of how the economy is shifting and prepare themselves accordingly. That might mean different types of training, it might mean moving, it might mean starting a business. It can be several things, but to sit back, do nothing, remain static in a time when the economy is dynamic and finding that you are structurally unqualified for many positions is not the government's fault.

Your post sums up the problematic attitude of this entire OWS business. People want the government to make them happy. They want to take from some to give to others to make them happy. They don't like the fact that others are happy when they are not, making an assumption that the banker who works 80 hours a week and makes $5M/year is made happy from his work. He might be happy that he makes that much cash, but in my experience, the work does not make him happy.

People who are looking for their work to provide meaning in their lives are shallow. If they have not sought to find meaning in other places, they are lazy.