Who are the 1%?

reply to post by TinkerHaus


So instead of pushing this 1% propaganda piece why don't you say what you really mean?

Becoming what you are "fighting" against priceless

krypt3ia.wordpress.com...
keep it up

Originally posted by defcon5

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Originally posted by felonius
Wake up and see the bolsheviks for what they are.

More like wake up and see the new monarchy for who they are...
Work hard your entire life for your feudal masters, getting deeper in debt to company store every day, so you can end up living in the gutter after you outlive your usefulness to them...

If you for one second honestly believe that right now you live in a Capitalistic Democratic Republic, I've got news for you... Our government is bought and paid for by special interest groups, they are now the ones making all the laws to better line their own pockets. You get to vote on a new set of scapegoats every now and again, from their hand picked litter of approved candidates, just to give you enough hope that something might change this time around. Nothing will change though, because anyone who has enough integrity to change it, they make sure they railroad them out of the race through their control of the media.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

Dont get me wrong. I know its totally forked up.

I will guarantee that the "string pullers" (Van Jones, Soros, Lerner) will not make it better.

What is left of the Constitution will likely be used on a televised set being used as ass wipe.

As I said, remember the bolsheviks and their promises...and then the results.

I dont even think that Obama and Co. is safe from these folks...unless he plays along.

Originally posted by mastahunta

Originally posted by felonius

Originally posted by defcon5

Originally posted by The Old American
What gives you that idea? Because I'm tired of paying for some other irresponsible, pathetic, whiny person's debt somehow means I'm OK with bailing out Wall Street? Or is it only "you're with us, or you're against us" with you people?

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

It seems to me that the movement is about making corporations and the rich pay their fair share back into the system, and holding them accountable for their actions. Its not about providing more social service benefits to the poor, but rather who is providing how much help toward the social services that are already provided. The elite, who were the ones who cut peoples pensions and benefits, want the middle class to solely support the weight of all the social services that are provided, when often, they are in fact the ones responsible for placing that burden on society to begin with.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

Yeah. Right.

Rich paying "their share".

Kinda like obama considering anyone making 250k or above rich?

Horse crap.

The primary goal of ALL of this is the destruction of our country...PERIOD.

Wake up and see the bolsheviks for what they are.

\

FEAR FEAR FEAR

I see FOX and Friends never fail to sell their customers doom and terror

One decades its them damned terrorists

Now the danger is the American protesting the Elite overlords

EEK BULLsheviks!

Dude, I trust Fox about as much as I do you.

Prove me wrong.

When you have the likes of Van Jones down to the idiot in the street professing communism, it sounds like communism to me.

reply to post by getreadyalready


I've heard a couple of people make similar remarks but I think that the 5.5 million is the yearly income of the 1%. So if you have friends that have spent the last 10 years building up a couple of million then I don't think they have made it out of the 99% just yet.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by pointr97

 

Yeah...That's what I'm saying.

The problem with the "System" is the government.

You don't even know what the government did to get things as bad as they are.

Here's a few terms for you to wikipedia on your spare time as you lambaste productive people:

Glass-Steagall Repealed
20% Loan to Value
Reserve Ratios and Leverage requirements
Separation of investment and Commercial banking(to include loans, depositor services etc.)
Federal Reserve System

When you find out how all of these issues come together you will understand how the banking system was allowed to be so irresponsible and why they have been and still are allowed to get away with murder. It has NOTHING to do with how much money you make. Only how MUCH ATTENTION you pay.

The OWS people would have you believe it's about how much money a rich person has...Oh how misguided this country has become.

edit on 11-10-2011 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)

I really wish you'd stop making generalizations like "THE OWS PEOPLE". I know many people in my group who are very concerned with the very issues you mentioned. Get out and talk to people and stop getting all your info from the media. All media. Talk to the people actually doing things!

reply to post by nihonjindesu08


I've talked to plenty of them. Here in Reno (Occupy Reno) and right here on ATS.

I got all I need.

reply to post by defcon5


pajamasmedia.com...


As I have said,

Socialists/ Communists.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by TinkerHaus

 

Oh?

Here I was thinking they are mad at the top 1% of wage earners who don't pay their fair share.

Looks to me like small businesses in this country are more than paying their fair share. And they are, IN FACT, in the 1%.

All it takes is a calculator and knowing how to add and subtract as well as using numbers produced by the BLS. And viola! You have your numbers.

Numbers that accurately reflect reality. And organizations like fact check.org back me up.

edit on 11-10-2011 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)

I'm from Canada, but can completely relate.

A friend of mine bought a small pizza company. He spent many years saving and working often two jobs to make the money to buy his business. A couple rough years went by of barely paying the bills, and it started to turn around and make a very modest but ever increasing profit.

A year goes by and election times come around. The provincial elections produced a very socialist party who immediately raised minimum wage. His profits were gone, as paying his employees became much more expenses. Some more time goes by and new civic elections are held, electing in a counsel who swiftly increased business and commercial taxes. Within the year, his business was closed.

These people truely do not know who they are targeting. No matter who they claim to have in their sights, all businesses will suffer, effecting everyone.

you yanks and your obsession with free market with no regulation is frustrating. Capitalism has failed (just like communism failed). It is a time to get a grip.. we need a rethink of the whole system. the scandanavian system seems to work ok. Medium gov medium business - high taxes, but return on your investment into the system, in the form of free education, medical, better retirement wages.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by projectvxn

 

The problem with the OWS folks, is they want more regulation, when what we need is less regulation! We need to stop making more and more restrictions on the little guys and giving the big guys a free pass. If we had a truly free market and stopped favoring the large corps, then the wealth would automatically redistribute on its own.

There is massive corruption wherever you see heavy government regulations. The regulations are like a red flag . . . someone paid some lobbyists. Beware the Government-Industrial Complex!

60% of "Wall Street" contributions go to Democrats, which is surprising on face value as the Democrats are proponents of increased regulations. (source) But consider that the big financial institutions are in the best position to actually benefit from regulations and lobby for regulations that will strangle the smaller companies. In the end, it's the small and medium businesses and their middle-class owners (in all industries, not just financial) who are getting squeezed out.

The truth is the poor have been getting richer along with the rich, at about the same rate, for the last half-century. The middle class isn't fairing so well though.

So, there is rampant corruption BUT it begins in Washington D.C. Our government aids and abets corruption. For more information research the root cause of the subprime lending disaster.

However, I thoroughly disagree with the OWS idiots. Their ignorance of the real situation, of economics, and of capitalism is shocking. They preach redistributionism, which is inherently immoral. They are communists who can only see the confiscation of other people's property as the best solution to problems. They don't all call themselves communists but "a rose by any other name smells as sweetly." The are mostly naive kids who are self-loathing and have external locus-of-control issues... learned helplessness, victim-mentalities.

reply to post by projectvxn


The main problem is the idea of "wealth" and the ability for "wealth" to be transferred to those who didn't earn it.
The secondary problem is the idea of "education" that can be bought & paid for by "wealth" that wasn't earned.
The third problem happens when "wealthy" "educated" idiots are put in positions of power & influence because they have been groomed to be "wealthy" and "educated". But of course, governments are mostly operated by those "educated" and "wealthy" people who didn't earn it.

I believe this problem can only be solved by selecting leaders who have come from the ranks, self made individuals, entrepreneurs (not just capitalist entrepreneurs, but humanist entrepreneurs too).

Speaking of "wealth" though. America would be a lot better off without a $5 Trillion dollar nuclear weapons program that has sucked America dry for 50 years.

Fuzzy logic, fuzzy math, fuzzy thoughts, fuzzy slights, and fuzzy flights of fancy, and what fuzzy sends, is what fuzzy gets. All is fuzzy, even fuzzy wuzzy, was fuzzy, wasn't he? So they say, but they were fuzzy in what they said.

But now they give, and then they take, and what they take is what they give, but what they gave was not theirs to give, and a little, then a little, and a little less, but nothing less then more was given, for nothing less then more shall be taken, for there are none to beggar, but they all bother the beggar none the less. None shall go, and none shall come, all shall begg and all shall bother, and even the beggar shall wonder why they bother.

Ever wonder, why they wander, when they wonder, why you wonder? It's all fuzzy, it's all snazzy, come along, and go along, stay along, and play along, all along the path is long, the way is foggy, the map is blurry, the road is twisted, and the vision is fuzzy, and even the end is crooked. Down one road and up another, only to end up down another road, so round and round we go, and in the ashes we fall, for that is it's end and also its beginning.

So don't blink and don't cry, get along while you play along, and remember even if a pawn becomes a queen, it is still just a playing piece. So play the game, or get a new game, or break the game, do as you will, but know this. You could always take today, what tomorrow never brings.

Originally posted by felonius
reply to post by defcon5

 

pajamasmedia.com...

As I have said,

Socialists/ Communists.

C'mon one knucklehead and its a communist plot? Besides, we have a corporatist system now, which if viewed in another country that was NOT controlled by our ruling elites would be called a fascist state. Give me a break, its all spin. The current ruling elites love Corporatism because they can roll it up in the flag and "free market" and call it capitalism. And then tell us, "if you don't like capitalism, you must be a Soros follower and a Commie!!" But the ruling elite can work just as well in a Communist or Socialist government. Anything with a strong central government and a central bank and a monetary system controlled by them. You're entitled to your own opinion, but by dismissing the OWP as a communist plot, you're are only serving the existing rulers. Knowledge is power and we can only hope that the OWP protestors see what's behind the curtain. IMO you still don't get it, you are putting a Soros/Van Jones face on the movement which is exactly what TPTB want you to do. Its called divide and conquer. If you think people are stupid and won't get who is trying to co-opt the movement, then I guess that explains why you're worried. Just remember the Neocon war mongers have co-opted the tea party. They don't believe in freedon or liberty either. Does that mean the tea party movement was bad? No it was a response to the excesses of government. This is the same. I'm just hoping that the OWP people aren't as gullible as so many of the tea pary people.

I've had it up to here with the OWS protestors. Their rhetoric is flawed, their message is pathetic. All I can say to each and every one of you is you're nothing more than a minority of people in this country. Those of us that work our butts off to have what we do and pay for our own way through life DO NOT want to be associated with the likes of you.

Stop calling yourself the 99%. You're not. The rest of us are.

reply to post by PrimePorkchop


for the post. Let them keep the momentum going.

BUT


for the Pic!!! That is the secret to the future of Americans!! We all need to live responsibly again. GREAT PIC!

Originally posted by izero
you yanks and your obsession with free market with no regulation is frustrating. Capitalism has failed (just like communism failed). It is a time to get a grip.. we need a rethink of the whole system. the scandanavian system seems to work ok. Medium gov medium business - high taxes, but return on your investment into the system, in the form of free education, medical, better retirement wages.

Please show me where we have had true capitalism in the last 70 years.

No regulations? Puuuuhlease!

The real ROI you get is an invasion of economic and personal liberty.

Originally posted by BravoBull
I agree with what you are saying,to a significant extent. I've lost my faith in government's ability to make things better for the governed. But I have questions for you:
1. How would less regulation keep huge oil corporations from using substandard practices for drilling in the Gulf of Mexico and causing an environment catastrophe? Who would clean up the mess? Who would enforce the clean up? Unfortunately, the federal government with existing regulations did a horrible job of preventing it or making sure the cleanup was sufficient. And what about the livelihoods of the people affected by a disaster like that? What would they be able to do against a billion dollar corporation with unlimited resources to tie up a case for decades? Please explain? Or do we just say that's life and the market will take care of that? Because I don't see how it would.

So the regulations in place did not stop the oil spill. The answer is ...MORE REGULATION?
The answer is that if a big company has an accident like this they are open to lawsuits by those affected. There were enough small businesses in and around the Gulf to sue BP out of existance. The regulations work to sheild just as much as they due to punish. BP was granted protection by the government. I dont have any problem with a civil law that broadly states that operating a commercial enterprise will not adversly affect the environment. I have problems with the EPA taking something like that and making thousands upon thousands of specific codes and requirements to implement that type of civil law. If an individual litigant can show harm then the company should be at fault.

2. How does the free market solve the unemployment problem relating to out sourcing or off shoring of jobs? With a significant difference in cost of living between China and the US, it seems pretty difficult to surmount. And lets say through American ingenuity we develop a process that can actually beat the cost of manufacture of some item. If the Chinese government then chooses to subsidize their manufacturers, how would we compete? This scenario did actually occur with Solar Cell manufacturing.

You are assuming that jobs belong to the individuals who work them. They do not. Out sourcing is the market at work just not in the favor of the individual worker. The market is telling that worker the cost for his labor is too high. The jobs belong to the owner of the company hiring. They are shopping for labor and if your cost for labor is too high they will shop elsewhere. Labor is only one component to the cost of a product or service. If the other costs are to high or much lower that influences the cost of labor. If all of the factors involved have a high cost that I as a business man cannot easily change then I have to look at labor and how I can reduce that cost. With cheap telecom and cheap shipping the cost of labor in foreign countries became even more attractive.
Yes another country can subsidize its manufacturing. Remove the other barriers to doing business here in the US and you can combat that subsidy.

I suppose we could wait for the dollar to be devalued so that it would be worth less than the yuan (or just worthless) but if they choose to peg the yuan to the dollar it won't help much. Also, how long will it take for our dollar to be devalued? In the meanwhile, what about the families whose lives will be broken by this? There is no welfare or unemployment, because that is big government. What do they do? I suppose they would have to rely on the charity of friends, family and strangers.
In the meanwhile, what about all those CEOs and executives that have been sucking out million dollar bonuses while decimating the economy? They have their offshore havens and investments, besides they will pay little in taxes now because of less government. Like you said, they won't hoard their wealth. They'll invest it, probably.. off shore.or buying up small businesses to create a larger corporation. IMO whatever happens it will be ugly and I'm not sure the free market can fix it all.

Yes the unemployeed have to rely on non government support structures. Reduce the cost of doing business and they will not remain unemployed. Reduce the cost of starting up a business and they will not remain unemployed. Remove the barriers to keeping a business in operation and they will not remain unemployed.
Those CEO's will buy goods or invest their million dollar bonuses and those investments create jobs. The only reason people shelter their wealth offshore is to avoid the high cost of keeping it domestic. High taxes are a cost of keeping it onshore. Remove that barrier and the funds flood back to the US.

reply to post by izero


No Capitalism has not failed. Capitalism is fine the issue is the way that our western governments choose to strangle Capitalism. There is a crisis with regard to Capitalism and that crisis is the power of government to influence Capitalism. I will continue to beat this drum time and time again.

Government works to influence economies via regulation and law. If you remove as many laws and regulations as you can then you remove the influence of government on economies. If government has little influence on the economy then no one will bother to try and purchase that influence. Further more no one can use the police power of government to transfer wealth from taxpayers to failing businesses.

People with power and money (often interchangeable) to burn don't like the spotlight. But as to who they are it's complicated, and designed to piss off anyone seeking answers. But all I can say as an absolute fact: I ain't one of them! If I was, I really do hope, and would sure try not to be a mean spirited greedy son of a bitch...

Another poster said in another thread:
"The 1% are those who protect the .01."

Those might be the lawyers,judges,politicians,police chiefs,criminals with money,etc.