OWS vs Tea Party - AKA You VS Yourself!

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posted on Oct, 12 2011 @ 06:46 AM
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reply to post by xuenchen
 


Good video.
But the suckers that are being taken in by OWS will discount it and badmouth Beck instead of heeding it. Of course there are 2 types of occupants at OWS.... the very naive and the scum that feed off of them..




posted on Oct, 12 2011 @ 07:07 AM
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The Tea Party and the OWS are not the same. I would never count myself as part of those OWS nutbags who dont even have a clue as to what they are protesting. I believe in the Tea Party and I am part of the 53%. The OWS'rs are nothing but a bunch of (for the most part) druggie hippies looking for a free hand out while they fornicate on public property.



posted on Oct, 12 2011 @ 07:33 AM
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reply to post by DerbyCityLights
 


That's just laughable. I'm guessing from your use of the druggie hippie terminology that get your social security check and Medicaid every month. You don't like socialist ideals, send it back. It's easy. My problem with the tea party, by and large is that they want steak for them and spam for everyone else, that is, of course, if you can find a spokesman you don't abandon after a month because they said something that didn't poll well and " isn't what the tea party stands for".



posted on Oct, 12 2011 @ 10:26 AM
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Originally posted by VivaDiscordia
reply to post by DerbyCityLights
 


That's just laughable. I'm guessing from your use of the druggie hippie terminology that get your social security check and Medicaid every month. You don't like socialist ideals, send it back. It's easy. My problem with the tea party, by and large is that they want steak for them and spam for everyone else, that is, of course, if you can find a spokesman you don't abandon after a month because they said something that didn't poll well and " isn't what the tea party stands for".


People always have to make an arse of themselves. Since I'm so old (39) let me tell you some of my OWE experience. I went to the protest here in Louisville to see for myself. I don't jump on bandwagons or listen to MSM for these protest. What I saw was a bunch of disorganized hippies, some even with dreds, smoking pot, banging on drums, making out, holding protest signs that there were very few of that were the same. They don't know why or what they are protesting. If anything is laughable, its the OWS protesters.

I am part of the 53%.

I hold down a job.

I pay my bills.

I pay my taxes.

I pay my mortgage.

I do my best to be a law abiding citizen.

My message to the OWS'ers I saw is this. Stop smoking weed so you can get off your lazy arse and pass a drug test. Then get a job or an education and make your money like the rest of us. As it is, all I see are a bunch of spoiled brats with MAC books who need a diaper change.



posted on Oct, 12 2011 @ 10:36 AM
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Check out this excellent article I've just found:




A few observations about Occupy Wall Street



Both quotes are relevant in the context of the hullabaloo over the Occupy Wall Street Movement (OWS). Here’s why: Both of our tired political parties are desperately trying to maneuver themselves into the middle of the OWS debate to appear relevant.

Democratic dogma says OWS is all about corporate greed and scumbag bankers, the solution to which is even more government regulation and taxes. They’ve rolled out the labor unions and progressives to make their case. Republican dogma says OWS is a bunch of weirdo Brahmin-class, pot-smoking elitists who are out to destroy the “free market” and replace it with Socialism. They trot out candidates like Herman Cain to make their point.

One side says government is the problem. The other side says corporate America is the problem. So, who’s right?

Both of them…or more precisely, neither of them.



posted on Oct, 12 2011 @ 11:19 AM
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Originally posted by DerbyCityLights
What I saw was a bunch of disorganized hippies, some even with dreds,


Could you please explain to us why the way someone wears their hair affects the way in which they protest or why it should have any bearing on the discussion whatsoever?



smoking pot,

All of them were smoking pot?
REALLY?



banging on drums

Could you please explain to us how the playing of a percussion instrument would affect the way in which a group of people protest? Also, was EVERYONE playing a percussion instrument? If so, it must have been really loud.


making out,

Could you please explain to us how the public display of affection would affect the way in which a group of people protest? Also, was EVERYONE making out??? If so, I wish I had been there.



holding protest signs that there were very few of that were the same. They don't know why or what they are protesting.


So NO ONE knew what they were protesting?
REALLY?
THEY DIDN'T EVEN KNOW WHY?!?!?
REALLY?!?!?
WOW!



I hold down a job.


So none of these people had jobs? How could you possibly know that?


I pay my bills.


So none of these people pay their bills?
REALLY?!?!? How could you possibly know that?


I pay my taxes.


So NONE of these people pay their taxes?!?!
REALLY?!?!?!
How could you possibly know that?!?!?!


I pay my mortgage.

So NONE of these people had a mortgage or if they did, they didn't pay it?!?!?!?!
REALLY?!?!?!
How could you POSSIBLY know all that?!?!?



I do my best to be a law abiding citizen.


So NONE of these people were doing their best to abide by the law?!?!?!
Or if they were, they weren't citizens?!?!?
REALLY?!?!?!
How could you possibly know that?!?!!?


People always have to make an arse of themselves.


Indeed.


Bottom line is
You have effectively outed yourself as a troll and a mouthpiece for the MSM whether or not you are getting paid for your services to do so is none of my concern.
Your arguments are illogical and based either on emotion or a paycheck.
Either way you hold zero credability now.
I have no problem with the fact that some people disagree with these protests but
if this is to be discussed with the expectation of any positive outcome, logic and reason must be employed.
Yours was ,as I said, either totally emotionally based or financially based.

Thank you for outing yourself.
Until you cease using verbatim talking points handed out by Rush Limbaugh and Shawn Hannity you will be treated as though you were a web bot whether or not you truely are.
edit on 12-10-2011 by Screwed because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 12 2011 @ 11:30 AM
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reply to post by TheBandit795
 




ZING

thats awesome!

Never let a good crisis go to waste.... ever! also spin it as much as you can when you can.



posted on Oct, 12 2011 @ 12:02 PM
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reply to post by thedeadlyrhythm
 


Because I am a conservative and believe what the Tea Party stands for I have been called a homophobic, racist, bigoted, moronic, teabagger, uncivil, ignorant, illogical human being. You claim that I repeat things drilled into my head by others and don’t formulate my own thoughts. You are a shallow, ignorant person if you make comments like that about people you disagree with. This is an open forum. Everyone here on ATS can post their opinion and be heard. This isn’t thedeadlyrhythm show, though I’m sure you’d love to hear yourself rant all damn day. By the way, if you hear someone say something more than once that doesn’t make it a talking point…maybe it’s the truth. I don’t repeat things I believe any more frequently than anybody else on ATS.

Anyway, another fine post, professor. However, you are trying to equate tax policy alone with the economic circumstances we face. Let’s first stipulate that TPTB are gobbling up all the wealth globally and that goes far beyond any party affiliation. The problem is the robbery that is going on from the Federal Reserve, our corrupt government officials (on both sides), the power grabs by the past 2 presidents, and the ridiculous spending by the socialist Obama regime.

The power and money grab has escalated under Obama through his socialist policies. He is increasing the size and scope of government at an alarming pace. Let’s look at the policies and practices that have led to bigger government and an escalation of the wealth disappearing in America. Obama has:

• Stripped corporations of their assets (automakers in particular)
• American reinvestment and recovery act
• Huge handouts to insiders
• Cash for clunkers
• Unemployment insurance and cobra extensions
• Billions in quantitative easing
• Dodd-Frank
• 21 new taxes or tax increases
• Destruction of the oil industry increasing dependence on foreign oil
• Nationalizing energy
• Nationalizing healthcare

I own a business and know plenty of other business owners. The average family would be much better off right now if business owners weren’t afraid to spend money. The reason new jobs are not being created is because we have no idea what it will cost to do business next month let alone the next two years. How do you make a decision to invest money when you don’t know how much money you will have next month? High paying jobs are leaving because of over regulation and an unstable marketplace….which is the fault of the government, not Wall Street and not capitalism. Business won’t hire because they fear new environmental regulations, rising healthcare, Obamacare, economic uncertainty and constantly increasing taxes. Going after rich people (like OWS people want to do) won’t solve a damn thing. Sending some Wall Street bozos to jail simply will not fix things. We’ll still be left with everything I have described above long after those guys are locked up. So YES, socialism and crony capitalism are to blame.



posted on Oct, 12 2011 @ 12:09 PM
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Originally posted by Screwed

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by Screwed
 


Thats a very sweet post but...Have you ever heard that song that says, "you've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything"?  

Is taking no side the new Politically Correct thing to do? 

I realize this is a conspiracy site but do you really believe anyone who is right/left has been duped?  

Why do you think people who stand for the right or left are wrong for standing for what they believe?  

IMO, choosing no side does not make you a genius...it makes you indecisive because everyone has a belief system.

"Let's all get along" is not a belief system and you cannot stand for everything.

So you think everyone should put aside right and left for good and do what? Stand together for what?


I would surmise by reading your post that you have already made up your mind and chosen sides and that your questions are rhetorical. Are you actually wanting to expand your thinking and entertain the possibility of embracing a totally foriegn concept or were you just wanting to debate?


Yes Screwed, I would like to know your answers if you'd like to elaborate. I have many beliefs but if I didn't want to hear other people's beliefs I wouldn't be on this site. I'm open minded (to a point)...



posted on Oct, 12 2011 @ 01:11 PM
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Ok Fair enough, I just wanted to check because there ARE alot of people who flood this site with closeminded thinking.Being a member of ATS is NOT synonymous with open mindedness.


Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by Screwed
 


Thats a very sweet post but...Have you ever heard that song that says, "you've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything"?  


Yes, and I agree.
I stand for freedom. Not just for myself but for YOU too.
But first I have to try and convince you that you are not free. Only then can we worlk towards BECOMING free.


Is taking no side the new Politically Correct thing to do? 

F**** political correctness!!!!
I am NOT a politician and I am not running for office
therefore I do not need to be politically correct.


I realize this is a conspiracy site but do you really believe anyone who is right/left has been duped?  


Absolutely!
You are naturally in the middle.
It is only after you are made aware of a duality that you are compelled to choose which side you are going to fall on. The problem IS.....These "sides" that are being presented to you are a false paradigm.

Let's break it down to something that is a little easier to understand for ALL of us.
The old addage about two kids playing in a sandbox.
One is white, the other black.
The kids will continue playing and being friends.
They will grow up being freinds. They will die being friends never taking into account the fact that they have different color skin and never realizing how big of a deal it is to have different color skin than someone else.
It is only AFTER someone comes along and presents a false paradigm that their freindship will be tested.
It is only AFTER the white kids dad comes along and scoops up his son and admonishes him for playing with a black kid.
"we don't play with black people son. WE don't like black people. You are white and you are to only play with kids who are white. If you play with black kids then you are not one of us".

What happens?
The kid is now forced to choose. He can no longer just be where he was.
He HAS to take sides.
It is a false paradigm!



Why do you think people who stand for the right or left are wrong for standing for what they believe?  


I don't think they are wrong for what they believe as such.
I think they are wrong (if we have to use that word, I preferr "misguided") for believing we are separate.



IMO, choosing no side does not make you a genius...it makes you indecisive because everyone has a belief system.

I am no genius. I just refuse to buy into false paradigms.
I am not indecisive, quite the opposite.
I HAVE decided!!
I have made a decision to stop buying in to false paradigms and realize that we are all united in our desires.
We ALL want to be free!!! This is the common thread that binds us. We may disagree with how to go about getting there, we may even disagree with whether or not we are already free, but we need to focus on our similarities rather than our differences.




"Let's all get along" is not a belief system and you cannot stand for everything.


It may or may not be a "belief system" but it IS a way of life.


So you think everyone should put aside right and left for good and do what? Stand together for what?


FREEDOM!!!
edit on 12-10-2011 by Screwed because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 12 2011 @ 02:34 PM
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reply to post by Screwed
 


Thanks for the response, Screwed.

I would like to think we all stand for freedom but even when discussing something most people would consider universal, such as freedom, we find big differences. Example - Libertarians also stand for freedom. However, I do not stand for their BRAND of freedom. Freedom without constraint and morals is anarchy. It’s not ok in a civilized society to smoke crack on your couch as long as you don’t bother someone else. It’s not ok to marry 3 women as long as they all agree. There are certain limitations that we, as a society, have imposed on ourselves to keep some level of civility and order. The level and extent of these limitations is where the political parties come into play.

It’s nice to say we all love freedom and we should put aside right and left to stand together but the reality is…the belief systems of Americans are vastly different. I subscribe to conservative values. Though I may share many of the same values with my liberal/libertarian/democrat/republican neighbor, there are certain areas where they cross a line. I cannot play on the same team with people I have fundamental differences with. Being human is great, but the different beliefs that people have can have a huge impact on our lives when those beliefs are imposed on other for sake of “getting along”.

Your analogy about the white and black boys in the sandbox is simple. As a matter of fact, it’s far too simple to make a valid comparison between two boys being neutral about the difference in skin color and the fundamental differences of conservatism and liberalism. I could go on for days but I will give just one example.

-As a conservative I believe nothing is free, everything must be earned, and there should be no handouts except in the most extreme cases (mental retardation, complete physical debilitation, etc). I believe in limited government and self reliance.

-On the other hand, Liberals feel it’s ok (and even just and righteous) to take from people who have earned a good living and redistribute it to people who have not earned enough to support themselves. To many liberals, everything should be taken and distributed equitably to us by our government.

These opposing views are not as simple as the color of someone’s skin or the way someone looks…this is a fundamental disagreement on how society should be run and it absolutely has a huge impact on the lives of people on both sides. For me there is no compromise when it comes to values. Redistributive policies and a collectivist mentality unfairly reward the turds among us and even more unfairly steals from those who work hard, play by the rules and are independent (free). That is unacceptable to me.

What is wrong with my analysis in your opinion?



posted on Oct, 12 2011 @ 04:24 PM
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reply to post by seabag
 


First of all, I try not to use words like "right/wrong" or "good/bad"
So there is nothing "wrong" with your position.

The only thing I would ask you to do is to evaluate why you feel it is necessary to control others.
This is what it ALL comes down to.
CONTROL!
The people who are subverting humanity and using polarizing tactics to divide us are using an age old tactic
of Divide and conquer. Everyone wants to control everyone else and no one wants to control themselves.

So I would ask you how does it hurt you that I may want to smoke crack in the comfort of my own livingroom?
The persecution and prosecution of victimless crimes is one of the BIGGEST control mechanisms we have in this world. Christians are being slaughtered in Egypt because of the same mentality.

I call it the

" I don't do it and I don't want YOU to do it either" syndrome.

Ask yourself WHY????
Don't tell ME why
Ask yourself.
If you are honest with yourself I'll bet you'll find that it offends YOU.
If you are honest with yourself I'll bet you'll find that it is morally objectionable to....YOU.
If you are honest with yourself I'll bet you'll find that YOU don't like it.
If you are honest with yourself I'll bet you'll find that it doesn't REALLY hurt anyone but YOU and YOUR sensabilities.

One of the hardest things I have ever done is allow people to be themselves and do what THEY want to do regardless of what I think they should or should not do.
What this means is that I have had to fight back the urge to call the police on the neighbor who has a meth lab in his garage. He is providing a product that other people want and are willing to pay for. they are consenting adults and it is not up to me nor the government to decide what they can or can not put into their bodies. Just because it isn't MY thing doesn't mean that I won't fight for YOUR ability to do it.
Whatever your beliefs are and however you live your life is ok with me as long as you are not mean or hateful and don't HURT others intentionally.

So let's take a couple of quotes from you and let me pick them apart using my logic.




It’s not ok in a civilized society to smoke crack on your couch as long as you don’t bother someone else.

Why? Who is it hurting??
Honestly answer that question.
Think about it for a while, don't just hit me back in two minuites with a response.
really be honest with yourself and ask yourself the question "Who is it hurting".
If you answer the way most people with your mentality would answer you will say something on the order of
" It hurts society as a whole" or some other such nonsense.
But, does it really?
Or does it just piss you off?




It’s not ok to marry 3 women as long as they all agree.


Again, WHY???
I would agree with you to a point on this one though.
My wife and I just had this discussion the other night.
I am all for a man having as many wives as he wants (why in the hell you'd want to put up with more than one woman is beyond me though
) but when you expose innocent children to this lifestyle choice is where I draw the line and it starts to piss ME off. But even then, I don't know that I would be in favor of passing a law against it as long as the children are well cared for.


There are certain limitations that we, as a society, have imposed on ourselves to keep some level of civility and order.


"Civility" and "Order" are subjective words.
When I read sentences like this I read something totally different.

Translation:

There are certain limitations that we, as a society, have imposed on ourselves to keep some level of











CONTROL!!!


Now then,


-As a conservative I believe nothing is free, everything must be earned, and there should be no handouts except in the most extreme cases (mental retardation, complete physical debilitation, etc). I believe in limited government and self reliance


there are plenty of things that are free. I am sorry that you think that EVERYTHING MUST be earned.
If you ever want to come to St. Louis I'll put you and your family up in my house FOR FREE!
Hell, I'll even take an afternoon out of my not so busy day to show you guys the city.
It will be free lodging which is one of the most expensive parts of going on vacation.
You didn't earn it monitarily but you earned my respect as a fellow ATSer who is able to engauge in intelligent debate without being an asshole.

If you guys are running low on money while you are here because you bought too many souveniers for the kids
you're more than welcome to whatever I have in my fridge. I think I have a couple of ketchup packets and an empty gallon of milk. but we'll figure something out.

Limited government is great but limited humanity is not.
Just because you don't have a job doesn't give me the right to turn my head and let you starve.
When we do that we have lost our humanity.
You may be "RIGHT" in that the person in question didn't "earn" that food but,
would you rather be "Right" or would you rather be "Human"?
edit on 12-10-2011 by Screwed because: (no reason given)
edit on 12-10-2011 by Screwed because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 12 2011 @ 06:13 PM
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Originally posted by ugie1028
reply to post by psyop911
 

how did 9/11 become part of this? i didn't even mention it at all!
and if you think im not for 9/11 truth, take a look around my threads from the past. used to be active in those forums.


just saying. those ows people are mostly fake liberals, aka establishment commies.
their idol is noam chomsky and we all know what noam said about 9/11. about the
same things as donald rumsfeld or dick cheney. more or less.



posted on Oct, 12 2011 @ 10:39 PM
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reply to post by DerbyCityLights
 


There are quite a few people with jobs in those drum circles. Its not about the handout, it's about a broken system. Instead of blaming the situations on generalities, which was the intended irony of my post, look towards the root cause.



posted on Oct, 13 2011 @ 05:44 AM
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reply to post by Screwed
 



I'm a troll because I reported what I saw at your holier than though protests???

You know good and well that I did not meant every single person was doing all those things at once. All you are trying to do is goad me into a flame war. Nice try. I'm thinking you will find the troll if you look in the mirror.

Looks like something else laughable has occurred in this thread. You have no idea who is really pushing these protests, do you?



posted on Oct, 13 2011 @ 05:53 AM
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Originally posted by VivaDiscordia
reply to post by DerbyCityLights
 


There are quite a few people with jobs in those drum circles. Its not about the handout, it's about a broken system. Instead of blaming the situations on generalities, which was the intended irony of my post, look towards the root cause.


I'm telling you right now man, I saw it with my own two eyes. They had people asking for food donations from close by restaurants. They had put out request for all kinds of freebie's and their reasoning is "We are protesting for you!"

Frankly, I'm quite sick of this new generation of spoiled brats who think the Government should provide for them. Get off your rear end, get an education and a job to pay for it and make something of yourselves instead of sponging off my tax dollars! And I swear to God, if I see one more protester holding a $3000 Mac Book Pro and complaining about low wages and lack of government handouts and PAY MY COLLEGE when I go back downtown tomorrow night, I'm going to smash his Mac and tell him he should have gotten something a little cheaper that does the same damn thing and use the rest of the money to pay his/her bills...


Oh yeah...Sean Combs wearing a $325 shirt and more bling than Mr. T....That is who your protest is drawing now. The same people they are supposedly protesting against! Isnt HE one of the 1%??? But its ok for him to be there. He is famous and makes CD's!

Its all so damn hypocritical it just makes me sick.



posted on Oct, 13 2011 @ 06:19 AM
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Great thread. This is exactly how I feel all the time now, since my real awakening about 10-15 years ago. whenever American screams at American because of some stupid, illusory divide that is being exploited but those who wish to stay in power against the will and wishes of the people and for their own personal gain only. They're screaming at each other so loud that no one's listening or even realizing that they basically stand for and want the same thing. It's as if some people don't realize what the real enemies here are...apathy,intentional divisiveness, and greed distract them...and they forget that we as Americans have these enemies in common, yet their wishes trump all.

Diversity and opposing views are healthy and keep us vital and alive, are necessary for progress, but there comes a time to put differences aside and above others and stand together. This is that time. Until and unless we stop listening to the money and so-called political leaders and pull together for our country and make our voices and wishes heard, our country is done. Stand together or die together. And that's a fact.

Look at all the diverse groups that got together to protest the the Viet Nam War . en.wikipedia.org...

agreement and action on one issue = clear public sentiment = strength

Wrote about this back when the "tea party" mob stood against their own in Wisconsin. Instead of uniting to improve life and liberty for all, they oppose their own people who are fighting for the same and drag everyone down. It just doesn't make sense at such a primal level. Wisconsin protesters to face Tea Party counter protesters today we're trapped in some sort of weird death spiral here. And it saddens me.

Sorry didn't mean to ramble so much to just say, I agree. But this kind of thing bothers me. A lot.

edit on 10/13/2011 by ~Lucidity because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 13 2011 @ 05:16 PM
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Great thread and great OP Ugie. I support OWS and will continue to do so as long as it maintains what drew me, but this thread has given some perspective. I have been pretty outspoken against the TPM and I do legitimately feel it's been infected with racism, homophobia and anti women's rights, as perhaps OWS has some freeloaders and people who are not genuine in their shouts of outrage.

I am a liberal and I always will be. I believe in helping others, I believe not everyone who needs a hand up is a lazy beggar. However, I realize that no matter how much I would like it to be so, the government can't just keep throwing money into social programs that just don't work. I don't know how to fix this mess but I do know that turning a deaf ear to conservatives is not a solution and I hope many conservatives realize the opposite.

We may disagree on many things but we all live and have to survive in this country and the system is now crippled. It doesn't matter anymore how we got to where we are, we have to focus on how to get out. I hope we can find our common grievences and work together to fix them. We the People have lost control and it's time to take it back.
edit on 13-10-2011 by Kali74 because: made paragraphs
edit on 13-10-2011 by Kali74 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by Kali74

I am a liberal and I always will be.


NO you are NOT!!!



we have to focus on how to get out.


We can start by dropping the labels.

You are not a "Liberal".
That is a word which is extremely divisive.
That is a WORD which does NOT define YOU!!!
It encapsulates SO MANY different Ideals that it has become a word that is subjective at best.

When you say things such as "I am a liberal" you are setting yourself apart from people who are?????

"NOT LIBERAL"
Usually referred to by their self inflicted label...."Conservative".
Now we have polarity again!

If you absolutely MUST be defined by a label,
If this world is just too cold and scary to live in without using single words and catch phrases to sum up who you are and what your purpose is in life then I will assign you a label which is more becoming and better suits you.

"Human Being".
edit on 14-10-2011 by Screwed because: (no reason given)
edit on 14-10-2011 by Screwed because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 14 2011 @ 03:44 PM
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Toronto Canada outfit is behind the American Occupy Wall Street movement
www.adbusters.org...
www.adbusters.org...






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