OWS vs Tea Party - AKA You VS Yourself!

I have always felt that there was the possibility that the perhaps the main purpose of the internet was to be used as a window into the lives of everyone who uses it, for the purpose of profiling and identifying all potential dissenters to the TPTB or the NWO if you prefer. Forums were created for free thought to identify the very people whose "free thoughts" were the most dangerous to those powers. Then at whatever appointed time the roundups could begin. The Nazis sort of followed those lines with the use of punch cards to identify enemies of the state. Paranoid maybe, but who knows.

Originally posted by LeftySinister

I heard this exact type of talk from Tea Party pushers when they first started coming around. They knew the system was corrupt. They saw the "change" that they voted for. The Tea Party was also a melding of political ideologies. Face it, OWS will be hijacked. Hell, it already has been.

edit on 11-10-2011 by LeftySinister because: Messed Up!

uh, i dont think much of the tea party voted for 'change'. i think most of them voted for mccain.

i don't think ows has been hijacked at all. as long as the main talking points stay about the housing crash, the actions of the big banks betting against the investments they were selling, getting money out of politics, the glass-steagall repeal, the disastrous results of financial deregulation, income inequality and the death of the middle class, tax policy favoring the rich, and loopholes, i think it's safe to say it has not yet been hijacked. these are the real issues, and the ones no one else is talking about. when ows changes its tune completely like the tea party did, then we'll talk.

seabag, you need a history lesson. you really, really, really do. i can't stand hearing people like you babble talking points that have been drilled into your head by other people. its honestly ridiculous.

punishing the rich? really? do you have no concept of historical tax policies at all? there is nothing radical about any of this. do a little research for yourself for god's sake. shut off limbaugh, shut off o'reilly, and think for yourself. if you really think this country is in the toilet because of liberalism and people who just dont want to work and want a handout, you've truly and completely fallen for it. wealth has not been so concentrated at the top since 1929. do i need to remind you what happened that year? probably.

i don't even feel like explaining further, there will be no getting through to you. im sure you'll shrug this off as 'commie liberal mumbo jumbo' and go back to your talkbox telling you what to think.

this is all great and dandy... if anything needs to change and get done.. regardless of what road you want to take

>THE FED NEEDS TO END.<

That in itself would give the people back some power. That is the heart of the issue. then we can clean up wallstreet and washington.

Till the fed dies you can spin your wheels treating the symptoms and never getting anywhere without getting to the cause.

You nailed it. You have been paying attention.

And furthermore, it is my fervent hope that these two groups will unite, and become stronger than anything the establishment can defend against, and thus effect REAL positive change for this country, while uniting its citizens in a joint fight against corruption.

Politics is a circle, if you go far enough right and far enough left, you meet at the other side of the circle.

The other side of the circle, wants to end the oligarchy, end the corruption of our government by lobbyists, restore justice, end the wars, and restore sound money.

I pray we all unite as one, and kick the usurpers out.

reply to post by Hendrix92TheUniverse


members of the tea party are FAR too ignorant to ever form any sort of alliance with a group like OWS, which they see as liberal youngsters who want a piece of their american dream, who have never worked a day or paid taxes. they see ows as everything that is wrong with america. teabaggers generally know nothing about history, nothing about former policies, they repeat what they are told. whatever genuine movement there was in the beginning was overtaken by the fox news zombies of the right. they care more about immigrants and the government giving "handouts" than they do about financial corruption, wall street stealing their retirment, insane tax policies, or the fed.

Wow whoever wrote that OWS wiki article is dumb.
The 99% doesn't mean they think 1% owns 99% of the wealth. They have said 1% own 40% of the wealth.
That article needs fixed.

As I said in the past I knew this would happen. And conservatives talkshow and radio show hosts are working as hard as the can to turn the right against OWS (a bi partisan groups) old people will never agree with anything young people do (even if they really do agree). OWS should be reaching out to conservatives. Also hopefully they start to direct some of that towards the government, because everyone knows the government is equal parts.

The OWS group are generally very young, unemployed, living off handouts while demanding even more handouts or part of some of the most radical groups and ideas from the fringe of the Left. Their events are utter chaos, involve violence, drugs, the destruction of property and are trashing the locations they are at.

reply to post by Blaine91555


If that is the case, I'm finding it difficult to reconcile how Boston police attacking military veterans, while throwing the flag to the ground last evening, fits into your characterization of " living off handouts" and "fringe of the Left"



or this one....



or even this one...

I gotta say, this isn't what I was expecting. For me this was a fresh perspective, and one I hadn't really considered. I suppose the real question is the one that's always asked. What can be done? I tend to lean left, but I try to be reasonable when it comes to the views of the right. Overall, I'd say the problem is that we are being led to believe that people of different views can't come to a better decision than similarly thinking people. Our political process exalts the yes men on both sides.

reply to post by Screwed

Originally posted by Screwed
You can't possibly know how much I needed to read that post.
Thanks for sharing.
It is nice to know that it is possible for people to do a complete 180 and
embrace a totally new paradigm.

If I may ask, what was it that finally allowed you to even begin the process?
Did you get to a point where you could no longer deny what was going on?
Did you just wake up one day and realize it was all a sham?
I guess what I am getting at is at some point I would think there was a coming to terms with your ego
and it must have been really hard to set your ego aside and take your mind off of auto pilot and begin to navigate yourself.

Either way it was very inspiriing to read your post because what it means is that it is possible for some of these
hard core polarized people who can't see past their self inflicted labels to actually come to terms with a very unfamiliar reality.......

UNITY!!!!

edit on 11-10-2011 by Screwed because: (no reason given)

Yes, UNITY!!!!! I'm glad you appreciated my post! I surely appreciate yours!

To answer your question about how I came to start the process of casting off the old idea of "Us/Them," "Dem/Repub," I don't think I can really pinpoint exactly how or when it happened. It was gradual. I first came to ATS during the huge Yellowstone Park earthquake swarm back in December 2008/January 2009. After that whole thing settled down, I kept coming back to ATS mainly because I had gotten hooked by the discussions on the Fragile Earth and 2012 forums. I started reading some of the other threads, too. I lurked for nearly a whole year before actually registering and posting.

I started seeing posts in the political forums that proposed the notion that the two party system was a farce and a mode of social engineering. I saw the truth in that theory almost immediately, but it took a while longer for me to think about it before fully embracing it. I am a very inquisitive and curious person and always have been. I am deeply fond of analyzing stuff from a critical research standpoint. It's rare that I take someone's word for something without doing at least a little bit of research to satisfy my own curiosity, but once I am sure I have the truth of something, I am fairly quick to incorporate the new information into my personal beliefs system, or to quickly dismiss a belief if I learn it is unequivocally false.

As far as battling with my ego, it has never really been an overwhelmingly difficult issue for me. Not sure why. Maybe it's because I have always been very consciously aware and fascinated by how the ego functions (not to mention the id and the superego!). I think the first time I realized I had finally fully embraced the reality that the two party system is an undeniable falsehood was during a conversation with a dear friend who was also a die-hard Democrat. Hearing myself explain it to him, I think I just heard the unmistakable truth of it in my own voice.

Not one attack OWS has been without bringing out the stereotype of the 60s hippie. honestly i have been surprised bu how aggressive the attacks have been from the right you would think theta the tea party would agree with the ideas OWS but it just seems that. Many Tea Partiers are just neo cons

Originally posted by thedeadlyrhythm
seabag, you need a history lesson. you really, really, really do. i can't stand hearing people like you babble talking points that have been drilled into your head by other people. its honestly ridiculous.

punishing the rich? really? do you have no concept of historical tax policies at all? there is nothing radical about any of this. do a little research for yourself for god's sake. shut off limbaugh, shut off o'reilly, and think for yourself. if you really think this country is in the toilet because of liberalism and people who just dont want to work and want a handout, you've truly and completely fallen for it. wealth has not been so concentrated at the top since 1929. do i need to remind you what happened that year? probably.

i don't even feel like explaining further, there will be no getting through to you. im sure you'll shrug this off as 'commie liberal mumbo jumbo' and go back to your talkbox telling you what to think.

edit on 11-10-2011 by thedeadlyrhythm because: (no reason given)

Well thanks for the history lesson. All I read was you talking smack. Spare me your rants as they add nothing to this conversation. History has shown that socialism always leads to more poverty, more oppression, bigger government, less individual freedom, less individual wealth and less personal responsibility. Keep drinking that liberal Kool-Aide. As usual, it will get you nowhere. You'll never see that concentration of wealth you're so worried about.

Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by thedeadlyrhythm
seabag, you need a history lesson. you really, really, really do. i can't stand hearing people like you babble talking points that have been drilled into your head by other people. its honestly ridiculous.

punishing the rich? really? do you have no concept of historical tax policies at all? there is nothing radical about any of this. do a little research for yourself for god's sake. shut off limbaugh, shut off o'reilly, and think for yourself. if you really think this country is in the toilet because of liberalism and people who just dont want to work and want a handout, you've truly and completely fallen for it. wealth has not been so concentrated at the top since 1929. do i need to remind you what happened that year? probably.

i don't even feel like explaining further, there will be no getting through to you. im sure you'll shrug this off as 'commie liberal mumbo jumbo' and go back to your talkbox telling you what to think.

edit on 11-10-2011 by thedeadlyrhythm because: (no reason given)

Well thanks for the history lesson. All I read was you talking smack. Spare me your rants as they add nothing to this conversation. History has shown that socialism always leads to more poverty, more oppression, bigger government, less individual freedom, less individual wealth and less personal responsibility. Keep drinking that liberal Kool-Aide. As usual, it will get you nowhere. You'll never see that concentration of wealth you're so worried about.

um, i said you need a history lesson. i didnt say i was giving you one, i urged you to research a bit and think for yourself. guess that's out of the question. i'm not drinking any liberal kool-aide, i just see both sides for what they are. i hate the democratic party just as much. i despise obama. i despised bush. give me a few minutes. guess i'll have to spoon feed it.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by Screwed

 

Thats a very sweet post but...Have you ever heard that song that says, "you've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything"?  

Is taking no side the new Politically Correct thing to do? 

I realize this is a conspiracy site but do you really believe anyone who is right/left has been duped?  

Why do you think people who stand for the right or left are wrong for standing for what they believe?  

IMO, choosing no side does not make you a genius...it makes you indecisive because everyone has a belief system.

"Let's all get along" is not a belief system and you cannot stand for everything.

So you think everyone should put aside right and left for good and do what? Stand together for what?

I would surmise by reading your post that you have already made up your mind and chosen sides and that your questions are rhetorical. Are you actually wanting to expand your thinking and entertain the possibility of embracing a totally foriegn concept or were you just wanting to debate?

Originally posted by MajorKarma
reply to post by ugie1028

 

Just vote for Ron Paul and all this crap will be sorted out and our country will be pulled back from the edge of destruction. Otherwise, don't whine and cry about your lives because you will definitely have yourselves to blame. Don't misunderstand me, I have little faith in Americans who I am one of but don't claim; this country deserves exactly what it gets and has gotten and I truly can't wait to get out from amongst you.

Do you honestly believe that you still have a vote that is counted? Our votes are cast on machines made by the same company that makes our ATMs. I'd love to see Ron Paul win the election but I'm not optimistic about his chances. The entire system is utterly corrupted. Even if he was able to get a fair election and win it, how much can one man do against a government that is completely compromised?

reply to post by seabag


so just to begin here, where did you pull socialism from? not anywhere from anything i said. liberal kool aide, socialism, how many assumptions about my views can you make in one post? very typical of those who spew the fox news drivel, if it's not something you agree with, then its immediately, "hippie liberal! commie! socialist!" it's old.

that being said, i'm not going to get into my own views. they fall into no political party, and they're completely irrelevant to what we're discussing here; facts.

let's start with two i already hinted at: income inequality is more extreme than it has been in almost 100 years. wages for the average worker have not risen in about 40 years despite the price index increasing times over, and record productivity. yet executive pay has skyrocketed. also, taxes for the richest are historically low. lets take a look at the numbers for both of these points. i'll make it easy with a graphic that breaks it down very specifically.



now let's talk about what we're seeing here. people on the right often talk of the 'good old days' when someone could make a living on a 9 to 5, one income households supporting a family, etc. so what happened to this? well, as policy leads to wealth being transferred upwards (in hopes of the elusive fabled supply side economic trickle down), the rest of society is left to fend for what is left. the illusion of wealth was able to continue through credit and record household debt, as well as the introduction of women into the workforce and the two-income household becoming the norm.
let's separate a bit of myth from reality. there is one thing on this earth that creates demand for jobs, and it isnt putting money in the hands of the richest for them to benevolently trickle down. it's demand for products. how do you create demand for products? by having a strong middle class that has money to spend on such products. this is reaching a breaking point now.
so just to reiterate, we are so far from socialism it's laughable. to people like you, going back to the tax policies of the 90's is socialism, let alone the tax policies of the most prosperous time for the middle class in this country: the 40's-70's. here are the top-bracket tax rates over the past century (oh god!? how did we ever survive with such relentless 'socialism'?) sensing a pattern here?(hint: '29 was the start of the great depression)



now from inequality lets move to financial deregulation. alan greenspan recently came out and said "I made a mistake in presuming that the self-interests of organisations, specifically banks and others, were such that they were best capable of protecting their own shareholders and their equity in the firms," so the right wing deregulation darling realizes the finance industry needs policing. do you?
here's a quick breakdown of the housing crash, the fraudulent actions taken by the banks, what led up to it, and why. this was summarized by a member of another community, and it's very easy to understand, so i'll defer to him. (w/ some edits for language)

(CONTINUE IN NEXT POST)

Here is essentially how it went down, anyone feel free to correct or add additional detail: In 99 Wall St, through Phill Gramm essentially got DC to repeal the Glass-Stegall act. This allowed them to start bundling and selling the mortgages as investment vehicles. There was also a push to get more people to buy houses so the Interest Rates were low and Wall St. starts pushing the variable APR loans, so you can get into a house CHEAP, CHEAP, CHEAP. This was all fine and dandy, people are buying houses, and borrowing against them to buy cars and furniture for the house they couldnt afford in the first place. Wall St knew they couldnt afford it, but didn't care, as long as that loan got closed, they could bury in one of the investments and sell it off. They got Moodys to slap a AAA rating on them and sold them to everyone, including many retirement funds. Now during this time, they are writing and selling as many loans as they possibly could. All the while knowing, eventually things are going to come crashing down. They know the loans are crap, thats why they sell them off as fast as they can. Now the economy goes south and people start losing jobs and houses. Wall St doesn't give a damn, they made their money selling the loans and the investments. Now, the stuff hits the fan. The investments are now worth pennies on the dollar. The banks are super low on capital and need gov't infused cash to make sure they can stay afloat of their day to day operations. They get that money and essentially use it against us, they short everything, they push the futures markets around, making us pay more for gas and other commodities and make a killing on this, more than enough to pay back the Gov't and still stuff billions in bonuses into their pockets. So, they sold us things we could not afford, bundled those bad investments and sold them to our retirement funds. Then when the stuff hit the fan, the took the money from the Gov't, bet hard against Americas economy, put it further in the dumper in the futures market and other places, then used that money to pay back the Gov't. And all of that money came from the American worker, from our taxes and from our Retirement funds. And now they are sitting back on stacks of cash and laughing at us.

and not one single member of the financial community was prosecuted for this. for more, see the oscar winning documentary, "Inside Job".

this is day one stuff, and it's just the tip of the iceberg. you fight so hard against things that arent really there. you talk about socialism and class warfare and all this nonsense that you get from right wing talk radio and fox news. it's absolute nonsense. to people like paul ryan, rolling back tax policies to sensible levels for millionaires is class warfare, but increasing payroll taxes, disproportionately affecting the poor and middle class, is 'good sense.' these people are leading you into the fire and you are fighting for them. do yourself a favor and read all this information objectively. set all your preconceived notions aside, and really revisit your opinions. use it as a catalyst to want to research things for yourself, and find out TRUTH. if we don't learn from history, we are doomed to repeat it.

The Tea Party was and is a movement created and co-opted by the billionaire Koch Brothers. It is not a grassroots movement. It's an astroturf movement.

Only time will tell if the OWS movement was created/co-opted by similar entities, but I seriously doubt it.

I know some of you cant stand rap... but the first chorus is powerful.. thought id add it here.... just ignore the end... Alex Jones speaks... worst part of the whole vid.



Just remember all the crap they (PTB, BANKERS, FED... etc.) have done over the years to mess with us... separate us, label us... and most of all make us fight each other.

Glenn Beck is certainly doing his part....

(from Oct 10 show)

He really pours it on here......

A story today revealed the Occupy Wall Street protests have devolved into a shameless display of moral depravity – with shocking (or perhaps not) interviews of protesters claiming to be getting high every day and having sex ‘in a tarp’ and out in plain view. For all the ‘tea bagger’ jokes the media couldn’t resist telling, perhaps they could come up with something this time around?

The NY Post reports:

Lured by cheap drugs and free food, creepy thugs have infiltrated the crowd of protesters camped out in Zuccotti Park for Occupy Wall Street, The Post has learned.

“I got warrants. I’m running from the law,” boasted Dave, 24, a scrawny, unshaven miscreant in filthy clothes from Stamford, Conn. “I’m not even supposed to be here, but it’s as good a spot as any to hide.”

Wanted for burglary, the drug-addled fugitive said some of his hard-partying pals clued him in that the protest was a good place to be fed, get wasted and crash.
…

Drugs can be easy to score — a Post reporter was offered pot for $15 and heroin for $10.
They’ve already fueled at least one violent incident, when a wasted nut job socked a medical volunteer in the face before others hauled the attacker away.

“ It’s very classy. Your parents must be so proud,” Glenn said of the protest.

“Zuccotti Park smells now like an open sewer with people urinating and defecating in public,” Glenn said.

“Let’s just be honest. They’re animals,” Glenn said.

The post added that some protestors were there for free food – like the $16/lb salmon and cream cheese that was handed out the other day.

“Listen to that oppression. The oppression of these poor protestors only eating $16 per pound salmon with cream cheese,” Stu said.

“We are entering the days of Weimar. Remember when I told you when TARP was coming down, I said read about Weimar. You have to know about Weimar Republic. That is what preceded Nazi Germany, and it became vile. It became exactly what we’re doing now. And it got so far out of control that the people begged for it to stop. And when they put it all back together, it didn’t resemble anything, anything like what it was. That’s why the purity of the race and the purity of the children and, you know, the Hitler youth, why that was also popular because they had gone so far off the rails. Exactly where we’re going now,” Glenn warned.

and see the video of his show
Sex, drugs and criminals: Occupy Wall Street getting ugly


[loud roar]