OWS vs Tea Party - AKA You VS Yourself!

Originally posted by ugie1028
Look forward and kick the door down that’s blocking you from making a real change.

fake liberals don't believe in 9/11 truth... neither do mainstream conservatives.

reply to post by psyop911


how did 9/11 become part of this? i didn't even mention it at all!

and if you think im not for 9/11 truth, take a look around my threads from the past. used to be active in those forums.

I’m more than a little embarrassed to admit that I voted for Barack Obama. I ignored the conservative pundits who warned us and bought into the whole “Hope and Change” concept. I suspect there are many, many more folks out there like me. Before you turn away thinking this is an anti-Obama rant, please read a little further. It’s not about that at all. It’s about where we are as a people in the history of the US and what our future holds. It’s about a defining moment in our nation’s history. History will prove that our leaders, through greed and apathy, nearly destroyed this nation. We have perhaps one last grasp chance to stop it.

There have been other defining moments in US history – The Civil War, Civil Rights, Our entry in WWI and WW2, etc. All of these involved people willing to risk life and liberty to change the status quo. We are again at one of those cross roads – an the status quo doesn’t go without a fight. This is STILL a democracy and we STILL have a chance to act against all odds to take it back.

It's hard to blame to folks who voted for Obama. You see the 2008 election was decided by a large group of disenfranchised people. Before the 99%, the 53%, the Tea Party and the OWSers there were the disenfranchised that decided the 2008 election. They were Democrats, Republicans and Independents clinging to a message from Obama that things would be different, that economic prosperity would be returned and that the reach of government and corporations would be checked. Unfortunately it was Obama who got changed by Washington instead of vice versa.

We have the greatest form of government and economy the world has ever known. The reason for people’s disenfranchisement is that since the 70s we have been betrayed by the leaders of this great country in both parties and in both the government and corporations. Regardless of who is in the White House the US Congress games the system by using the power of the federal government to reward or punish according to its whims. TPTB and the MSM control everything and are handsomely rewarded for their troubles.

The Tea Party and the OWSers are the same folks as the disenfranchised in 2008 that elected Barack Obama but TPTB got a scare when a large segment of Congress was voted out in the 2010 congressional races. They understood that is a threat to their hold on power and are willing to do anything to keep a repeat from happening in 2012.

My message to the Tea Party crowd and the OWSers is simple – UNITE. WE are the same disenfranchised, disillusioned folks that changed the status quo in 2008 and 2010. Within these movements there are those infiltrators who are trying to shape the message to create TWO distinct and separate factions. DON’T FALL FOR IT!

If divided we fall into the same old status quo - Republican v. Democrat, Conservative v. Liberal, White Collar v. Blue Collar, Main St. v. Wall St.

DIVIDED WE ARE NO THREAT TO THE ESTABLISHMENT.

UNITED – WE CAN FINISH WHAT WAS STARTED IN 2008 & 2010 AND PERMANENTLY CHANGE THE LEADERSHIP IN WASHINGTON.

Can WE all agree the government spends our tax dollars in a reckless and wasteful fashion?

Can WE all agree that continued borrowing will eventually lead to economic collapse?

Can WE all agree the government represents corporate interests over citizen interests?

Can WE all agree that Big Banks and Corporations are creating and perpetuating inequities in our society?

Can WE all agree that Wall Street needs a leash to prevent it from preying on weak minded or weak willed government fools that allow it to run roughshod over regulator controls?

WE are OWS
WE are THE TEA PARTY
WE are ALL DISENFRANCHISED
WE are THE 99%
WE are THE 53%
WE REFUSE to be FRACTURED OR MARGINALIZED BY DIVISION

OUR MESSAGE IS CLEAR, WE ARE UNITED…..

OUR LEADERS WILL HEAR US, WE WILL AFFECT CHANGE….

THIS IS A CALL TO THE TEA PARTY AND OWS TO UNITE
CONVERGE ON WASHINGTON, DC
TAKE THE NEXT STEP AND ORGANIZE A NATION WIDE STRIKE

WE THE PEOPLE,
AS IT WAS INTENDED,
AS IT WAS DESIGNED,
UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL

OWS and the Tea Party need to work together hand and hand to take out the big wigs! NOT against one another! I see a lot of ‘Tea Party this”, “OWS” that! It has to stop! Grow-up people! I’m soooo tired of the childish behavior…!

Originally posted by thedeadlyrhythm

that being said, i think the left will have a much harder time co-opting the ows movement to its own ends. the ows movement is equally fed up with both parties, and they realize that any political support is just that: political. they saw first hand the 'change' many of them voted for. they all know the system is corrupt. we won't get fooled again

edit on 11-10-2011 by thedeadlyrhythm because: (no reason given)

I heard this exact type of talk from Tea Party pushers when they first started coming around. They knew the system was corrupt. They saw the "change" that they voted for. The Tea Party was also a melding of political ideologies. Face it, OWS will be hijacked. Hell, it already has been.

Originally posted by Open2Truth
"The control of a large force is the same principle as the control of a few men: it is merely a question of dividing up their numbers." Sun Tzu, The Art of War.

And divide us they have. Fighting - between political parties, ideologies, religions, classes, countries, sexes, ethnicities - has become such an accepted way of life that it is seen by many as an inevitable and necessary part of the process for change. It is far from it. It is the one sure way to ensure that nothing of great import changes at all. And that benefits none of us.

S&F for an insightful thread and glimpse at the bigger picture.

In division one finds the balance of power, the natural course of a free society. The weakness of unification is that it is far to easy to be led by the few. Divison allows a clearer view of points and intentions, motives and platforms. Unification is to often the cry and hope of tyrants, the dream of demigods.

reply to post by Screwed


A star for your honesty and humbleness.
We need more of this.

reply to post by ugie1028


I completely disagree with the OP that both movements are really one in the same. The two movements share very few of the same goals and certainly disagree on the means to achieve those few shared goals. We have a deeply divided country split along ideological lines…that is a fact. There are competing views as to how this country should be run and it’s been that way since our founding.

A Political movement is simply a group of like-minded people getting together to achieve a political goal. I keep hearing that the Tea Party was high jacked by the right-wing. It hasn’t been high-jacked! It was started by libertarians and conservative republicans who agree on certain principles. The Tea Party has worked to get conservatives elected to government to achieve its goals. The goals of the Tea Party have been and remain 1) Limited Government, 2) Individual Freedoms, 3) Personal Responsibility, 4) Free Markets, 5) Returning political power to the states and the people. The Tea Party movement is interested in reforming the government and restoring the core principles of our founding fathers as well as restoring adherence to our constitution. These principles have the support of many independent and conservative democrats because these are the fundamental principles of America.

The OWS movement has is MUCH more radical in my opinion - wealth redistribution, punish the rich, free education, more social programs, end capitalism, stop all wars, free healthcare, wealth equality, etc. Occupy Wall Street is a radical liberal movement and I have yet to hear any mention of supporting and defending the constitution. In fact, most of the ideas promoted by OWS conflict with our constitution. Liberals view the constitution as nothing more than an antiquated document that is an obstacle to implementing their social policies. Period.

As much as I’d like to see every one of us unite behind a single movement for change, the reality is that we are divided along ideological lines and we completely disagree on the type of change needed. Right or wrong, there is a lot of disagreement on how America should be run. This is why we have elections! I will continue to support the Tea Party because I share the goals of the Tea Party. I will also continue to disagree with the OWS movement because I DO NOT share its goals. These two movements have very different agendas no matter how you’d like to paint the picture. I WILL NOT compromise my values by supporting OWS just for the sake of having a larger movement.

First I would like to inquire as to why you sourced WIKI in this thread? The OP sounds a lot more like an opinion than it does sourced material.

Although I agree that the two movements are the result of people being "fed up," IMO that's about as far as their similarities go. Other than the fact that both movements have elements of anti-war and anti-federal reserve protestors, I really can't think of another thing they have in common.

The Tea Party is fundamentally nothing more than the far right of the GOP. No one labeled them as right wing, they chose it. I don't seem to remember anyone forcing them to fall head over heels in love with nitwits like Michelle Bachman or Sarah Palin, they did it on their own. If a democrat was to say one negative word about their beloved Glenn Beck, they'd act as though you had insulted their pastor. Who forced them to show up in hordes to attend his 9-12 protest? Hijacked, my ass!

The Tea Party was primarily against taxes and big government, (fundamental mainstays of the GOP) and IMO, it was the TARP bailouts that proved to be the event that triggered the movement. I don't really remember them being anti-war until Obama became Commander in Chief. Seems to me that prior to that, they had more of a "I'll Put A Boot In Your Ass" mentality. As the movement grew it became more than obvious that the Tea Party was actually against almost every government program in place today including Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, FDA, EPA, SEC, etc..., with the only exceptions being corporate tax breaks & subsidies and defense spending. On top of that, I don't remember them endorsing one single democrat to elected office and every congressman who associates him or herself with the Tea Party just happens to be republican, go figure. Furthermore, since being elected to office their focus has been on anything and everything but "Jobs," a word that came out of their mouths more often during their campaigns than "911" did from Rudy Giuliani's during his.

I think that the main objective of the Tea Party is pretty obvious now that everyone has gotten the chance to see them in action. Obstruct, obstruct , obstruct or whatever it takes, no matter what the cost, to insure that Obama is a one term president, even if it means bringing this nation to it's knees to get it done. IMO, nothing could be more anti-american!

The OWS movement is IMO, quite the opposite of the Tea Party with one exception, for some reason both movements seem to take pride in the fact that they are leaderless and without a platform and IMO, this is their common flaw. Outside of that one commonality, the OWS movement is demanding some accountability for those on Wall St. who perpetuated the fraud on America and they're protesting to end big money's influence over our elected officials in D.C.. Unlike the Tea Party, the OWS movement is in favor of things like raising taxes on the rich, strengthening SEC regulations on Wall St. investment firms, more stringent environmental protection regulations, protecting programs like Social Security and Medicare, creating jobs by investing in America's infrastructure and the reversal of the "Citizen's United" supreme court decision declaring that corporations are "people." How many of these things does the Tea Party support? Did I mention that the OWS movement has the support of labor unions? Why do you think that Fox News talks down the OWS movement while they endorse and support the T.P. movement? Here's a little clue; It's because they are quite the opposite of each other.

If you can't see the difference between the two movements, maybe its' you who should adjust your blinders. I haven't seen any nazi Obama posters or "Keep Your Government Hands Off My Medicare" posters at the OWS rallies, nor have I seen the "Don't Tread On Me" banners being used as if they were a call to war.

Apparently those who are actually involved in the OWS movement know the difference and they expressed their opinion quite clearly when Fox showed up at their event.



The Tea Party is Not me, never was me and never will be me. On the other hand, I have no problem associating myself in favor of the OWS movement. Personally, I think they should adopt a platform, elect Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders as their spokesperson and let the show begin.

Originally posted by Flatfish
First I would like to inquire as to why you sourced WIKI in this thread? The OP sounds a lot more like an opinion than it does sourced material.

Just to quickly answer the first part before I read the rest.

I posted the wiki links just for those who have no idea what OWS was or what the tea party was. its just information readily available if people wanted to do a little bit of research on them. I kinda just included a shortcut... make it easier on the user.

EDIT: rest of reply

I know a few OWS protesters that have been there since day one. I have already been there twice and have an inside look into whats going on there. I have interviewed a few people, I have interacted with them. I have asked my friends what they thought of it (the ones on the ground there.) etc.

and yes i do get it, and i do see similarities with both groups. I don't understand why people think a protest like this one is different from the tea party protests. they are basically protesting against the same people in power regardless of what ideology they have. yes ideologically speaking they are different, but the end goals still the same... they want the bastards who ruined the economy to be flushed out and to hold them accountable.

Originally posted by ugie1028
reply to post by bigvanhorn

 

Yes I agree, the tea party was taken over by mr beck and Palin and any credibility they had went down with them!

its sad that these movements of thousands can be taken over by a hand full of people and then turned upside down.

I will see this happening to OWS unless they all change their game plans and dont let any kind of political pundit into their circle. its by the people for the people! Not by the people, for a few greedy politicians.

Don't forget it was taken over by homophobic, racist, bigoted, moronic, uncivil, illogical human beings known as Republican voters as well. They are extremely bitter individuals who can not get over the fact a black man is in office, oh and him being a Democrat is also a kick in the balls.

These people were Not around protesting Bush, so don't try to pretend they were. They were happily in front of their television sets with Fox News on telling them "Everything is Ok." Now Obama is in office, "Everything is ruined."

F these people.

reply to post by SeventhSeal


I agree, it started off pretty well... and fell off when they were taken over by those people you mentioned.

same thing will most likely happen to OWS if they let these people in. Hell even the democrats right now are trying to take advantage of OWS. thats all I have to say about that for now.

Originally posted by ugie1028

Originally posted by Flatfish
First I would like to inquire as to why you sourced WIKI in this thread? The OP sounds a lot more like an opinion than it does sourced material.

Just to quickly answer the first part before I read the rest.

I posted the wiki links just for those who have no idea what OWS was or what the tea party was. its just information readily available if people wanted to do a little bit of research on them. I kinda just included a shortcut... make it easier on the user.

EDIT: rest of reply

I know a few OWS protesters that have been there since day one. I have already been there twice and have an inside look into whats going on there. I have interviewed a few people, I have interacted with them. I have asked my friends what they thought of it (the ones on the ground there.) etc.

and yes i do get it, and i do see similarities with both groups. I don't understand why people think a protest like this one is different from the tea party protests. they are basically protesting against the same people in power regardless of what ideology they have. yes ideologically speaking they are different, but the end goals still the same... they want the bastards who ruined the economy to be flushed out and to hold them accountable.

edit on 10/11/2011 by ugie1028 because: (no reason given)

Like I said in my post, how many of the things like increased taxes on the rich, stronger EPA regulations, stronger SEC regulations, protection and preservation of S.S. & Medicare, job creation through investment in infrastructure, reversal of "Citizens United," etc... (supported by the OWS movement) does the Tea Party support? I rest my case.

Let me add that IMO, any attempt to paint the two movements as "one in the same," is nothing more than an attempt by the Tea Party to hijack the OWS movement. Sorry but you had your chance and now it's time to get out of the way and watch how it's done. I have a feeling that by the time this is over, the Tea Party will seem like a "flea" party in comparison.

Originally posted by Flatfish


I think that the main objective of the Tea Party is pretty obvious now that everyone has gotten the chance to see them in action. Obstruct, obstruct , obstruct or whatever it takes, no matter what the cost, to insure that Obama is a one term president, even if it means bringing this nation to it's knees to get it done. IMO, nothing could be more anti-american!

The Tea Party is Not me, never was me and never will be me. On the other hand, I have no problem associating myself in favor of the OWS movement.

The Tea Party is Anti-American?? You can’t be serious!! Name calling is just a technique liberals use when they can’t defend their policies.

What's bringing America to its knees is the fact that Obama has spent more money in 3 years than all Presidents from Washington to Bush Sr. combined. Liberalism has never worked. It always leads to more oppression, more poverty, and more dependence on government while discouraging personal responsibility. The current destruction of America is a direct result of liberalism and secularism. Obama’s unconstitutional health-care bill, his massive deficit spending, and the looming threat of more taxes and regulation have led us to economic collapse. Conservatives understand that big spending liberal, socialist policies are unsustainable and do not work. The sooner you realize that a social utopia is complete fantasy, the sooner we can get people back to work.

The OWS also seem to be targeting the US, as if there are no other financial arenas involved. I don't see anyone talking about London or Tokyo or the Chinese. How about what the Chinese have done. They devalued their own currency in order to out-compete us.
Why is it that the US is always the Big Bag Wolf? What about the other Bilderberg players? This is Intl intrigue.

reply to post by Flatfish

Let me add that IMO, any attempt to paint the two movements as "one in the same," is nothing more than an attempt by the Tea Party to hijack the OWS movement

The Tea Party would join OWS if they saw the issues the same, but alas T Party is for smallar govt and OWS is for big got solutions and more taxes and regulations. It's really pretty simple. The same thing goes for the reason why OWS type people didn't joing the T Party.

Originally posted by SeventhSeal

Originally posted by ugie1028
reply to post by bigvanhorn

 

Yes I agree, the tea party was taken over by mr beck and Palin and any credibility they had went down with them!

its sad that these movements of thousands can be taken over by a hand full of people and then turned upside down.

I will see this happening to OWS unless they all change their game plans and dont let any kind of political pundit into their circle. its by the people for the people! Not by the people, for a few greedy politicians.

Don't forget it was taken over by homophobic, racist, bigoted, moronic, uncivil, illogical human beings known as Republican voters as well. They are extremely bitter individuals who can not get over the fact a black man is in office, oh and him being a Democrat is also a kick in the balls.

These people were Not around protesting Bush, so don't try to pretend they were. They were happily in front of their television sets with Fox News on telling them "Everything is Ok." Now Obama is in office, "Everything is ruined."

F these people.

Name calling is just a technique liberals use when they can’t defend their policies. Please try to defend the record spending of you messiah! Please defend socialized medicine that we can’t afford. Please defend wealth redistribution. Please defend the over regulation of corporations.

You liberals are all the same. You have unsustainable ideas and you belittle anyone who doesn’t agree. The reality is that you can’t show me on paper how this country can pay for all of the things you want. Liberal policies destroy the free market….then again….that is also your agenda, right? You have no knowledge what it takes to create jobs or you wouldn’t support all of the things that kill jobs. Read the constitution and you will understand how America is supposed to work. If you don’t like it …..PLEASE move to another country!

It seems that the Democrats are trying to do to OWS what the Republicans did to the Tea Party. That is the critical issue which everyone should be aware of and not to let themselves fall prey to.

Originally posted by seabag

The Tea Party is Anti-American?? You can’t be serious!! Name calling is just a technique liberals use when they can’t defend their policies.

I think it was Michelle Bachman who called for the investigation to identify those with "anti-american" views in congress, hardly a liberal tactic. I just used the term because I thought it would ring true for you Tea Baggers. Just the same, yes I was serious, dead serious.

Originally posted by seabag
What's bringing America to its knees is the fact that Obama has spent more money in 3 years than all Presidents from Washington to Bush Sr. combined. Liberalism has never worked. It always leads to more oppression, more poverty, and more dependence on government while discouraging personal responsibility. The current destruction of America is a direct result of liberalism and secularism. Obama’s unconstitutional health-care bill, his massive deficit spending, and the looming threat of more taxes and regulation have led us to economic collapse. Conservatives understand that big spending liberal, socialist policies are unsustainable and do not work. The sooner you realize that a social utopia is complete fantasy, the sooner we can get people back to work.

This statement just proves my initial assessment that the two movements are polar opposites of each other. I think that the Tea party movement is fixing to get "steam" rolled by the OWS movement.

I think that it's the conservative utopia that's coming to an end. You know, the one that views our air and water as open sewers and workers as slave labor. The same one that views predatory lending as an acceptable way to defraud the american people, yeah it's all but over. I guess that only time will tell who's version of utopia gets adopted but if I were you, I wouldn't hold my breath.

reply to post by Flatfish


For the record, it was LaRouche who had the Obama Hitler posters. Wanna see? While we are on the subject of LaRouche, that guy is really a mixed bag. He tried to form his own labour party, and the symbal was the fist, same as the Communist Party and incidentally the OWS logo on the early posters as well. And you know what? He ran for election in the Democrat Party many times. He has flirted with socialist organizations and strangely enough backed Reagan's SDI. An odd combination.

In 1967 LaRouche began teaching classes on Marx's dialectical materialism at New York City's Free School, and attracted a group of students from Columbia University and the City College of New York, recommending that they read Das Kapital, as well as Hegel, Kant, and Leibniz. During the 1968 Columbia University protests, he organized his supporters under the name the National Caucus of Labor Committees (NCLC). The aim of the NCLC was to win control of the Students for a Democratic Society branch—the university's main activist group—and build a political alliance between students, local residents, organized labor, and the Columbia faculty.[17

en.wikipedia.org...

So just because some LaRouche ppl showed up at a Tea party doesn't mean they ran it or are a major constituent. I Noticed that the communist party is roaming about the OWS crowd quite a bit. Do they run it?