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posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 12:25 PM
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reply to post by InnerPeace2012
 


The issue is the failure of prophecies and the claim that it is due to some change in the outcome still leaves the prophecies as failures. There are always excuses by the hoaxers as to why their ludicrous tales did not pan out.




posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by ElevenFlint
reply to post by Dionisius
 


What's more, there may be more to birth and death even only in "this life" that we don't know yet, that could shatter the absolute concept. Don't forget what we know about them is just a concept, therefore cannot be absolute. Again problem of semiotics.


I like that, never thought about Death in that way.



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by thebtheb
 



Yes, but on the other side of the coin, and scientist will tell you that a theory is only a theory until it is proven.

A scientist would not say that because a theory in science is used to explain facts. In common speech a theory is used to mean a guess. Not so in science. A theory is model which explains a bunch of facts. That theory is always tested and tested. The theory is often tested by making predictions and then testing to see if the prediction works out. If it doesn't then the theory is adjusted or replaced.


If someone leaves their body, there's no way to measure what that person perceives or experiences during this time.

Why can't that be measurable? There are lots of ways that something can be measured.



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 12:48 PM
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reply to post by ElevenFlint
 


Science is often taught as a list of facts. That is not science. It is an introduction to science. Science is really taught through running experiments. The goal of this is to give some insight that the claims of science can be independently checked by others.


which as said could be easily manipulated, we can turn to knowledge of the heart, which cannot.

I simply find that to be balderdash. You're just making stuff up. The claim that there is something innate to each person that cannot be modified through external methods is baloney.



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 12:55 PM
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reply to post by voyger2
 


The Earth has none of the properties of a living organism. I list some here.
1. Ability to self replicate
2. Can grow
3. Exhibits metabolic processes
4. Reacts to stimuli

Can you show anything that suggests that the Earth is alive.



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 01:00 PM
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reply to post by WielderOfTheSwordOfTruth
 



The OP is just sharing their thoughts and view point on the world and your supposed to take it for what its worth and move on, it's not like the OP is submitting a scientific theory that needs peer review or that he's trying to gain followers and trick people for profit.

This is a discussion forum. I am discussing issues which I believe have mistakes. Obviously these claims are lacking in substance.


Yeah I saw the list that's why I copied it because it supports my argument, nothing in that list proves or even suggests that our bodies are not encoded with truth; and what exactly is ludicrous and unwarranted about my "commentary"(e.i. my thought and view point)?? Because you don't like it? Really, explain, and please point out which part didn't make sense.

The claim that our bodies are encoded for truth is an unsubstantiated claim that was trivial to show as false.


Actually no, I didn't move the goal posts, your simply shooting at the wrong net my friend. /quote]
Thanks for admitting that you moved the goal posts. Failure 2.



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 01:07 PM
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reply to post by ElevenFlint
 



The second definition of "imagination" implies that things caused by our mind are not actually real, which is something we can't be sure of, because (beware, proof-lovers!) we have no proof of that (try to find me one, you're welcome).

There are many people that claim the mind can do things. Take that well known fraud Carlos Castenada. He fooled lots of people. There are all sorts of people that believe by thinking thy can make things happen. Still there is no evidence to show it can happen.

The imagination can be used to construct ideas that can be tested against reality. Scientists imagine all sorts of things and reduce that imagination to that which actually exists.

You mention mathematicians. They are not scientists. Mathematicians often use systems that are not real or cannot be real, but they provide means of solving problems with applications to real world problems.

Do not mistake the description of reality using mathematics with the idea that the real world is based on mathematics.



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 01:14 PM
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reply to post by ElevenFlint
 



People are used to explaining everything according to what they know and what their worldview is - it's just normal, they can't go beyond their mindset just like that.

So you think you are smarter than the protesters themselves? You think that the protesters don't know what they are doing or why they are doing what they do?

This claim of a consciousness shift is going to be so funny when some silly end date runs out and the rubes who fell for it are going to be pretending that it happened until they realize they are playing out the Emperor's New Clothes.



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 02:31 PM
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reply to post by stereologist
 


what does a babies consciousness perceive?
what are the colours like?
what are the auras of the stars and the moon like?
what does water feel like?
what does food taste like?

. . . have you heard of the phenomena of synthesia? These are energetic interactions between different aspects of our consciousness. We can explain this with science where links between sensory organs not usually linked after the first few years of life can be observed in the neuronal structure of that brain. My point is, what you call consciousness is very materialistic. Infact it's very egotistical & arrogant to put forth the arguments you have in that way. There's absolutely zero wisdom in your approach to this conversation. From your confessions it can be deduced that you know nothing to very little of the subtle qualities of light consciousness sound consciousness air consciousness water consciousness (fluidity) heart consciousness or existential reflective consciousness and so forth. You have a great interest in debating but absolutely no interest or even curiosity to research this topic because if you had you would have at the very least recognised that the evolution of consciousness is enabling this very conversation! Ascension isn't just waking up.. it's about resonating more purely to what's real free of egotistical mind constructs clouding our perceptions & ability to think rationally about existential concerns. Look at the state of the world, war, terror, conflict, massive ecological devastation & still people claiming this species is through with evolution!!!!! Good grief!!! WAKE UP! ~please, we need help actually, we recognise you are passionate & could be of benefit to this cause. Yes it does require effort & positive belief about our potential to evolve to actually bring about the momentum of global ascension from our primitive conditioning... frankly im excited & so should you be, because we simply do not know what kind of glories the natural world has been keeping behind the sacred doors of perception. You can bet it will be full of love peace joy light & harmony, because these are the conditions of integrity. Please realise your potential & free yourself from your delusions. This planet is waiting lovingly for our care and affection. But we need to hurry because if we don't act now we risk destroying this beautiful host planet & our species forever & none of us want that. Yes it is simple logic but it is the truth, because we are one even with the greedy bankers & politicians warmongers & terrorists. When they suffer, the planet suffers, & when the planet suffers we suffer. Until we settle the storms of frenzied out of control greed & materialistic growth humanity & all beings of this planet are going to fall deeper and deeper into suffering & darkness until it is wiped out by the force of nature we are foolish not to appreciate.

For example, are you aware that the heart is magnetically 5000 (that's right 5000!) times stronger than the brain. I am curious to know your reaction to these scientifically proven facts of life, especially in this context where we are discussing the potentials of human intelligence & consciousness of a more spiritual & less material nature.
Peace be upon you and all beings.
edit on 16/10/2011 by EmeraldGreen because: (no reason given)

edit on 16/10/2011 by EmeraldGreen because: (no reason given)

edit on 16/10/2011 by EmeraldGreen because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 16 2011 @ 05:06 PM
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reply to post by EmeraldGreen
 



have you heard of the phenomena of synthesia?

Yes, years ago.


There's absolutely zero wisdom in your approach to this conversation.

Assuming that you know the meaning of wisdom I differ. It it those that lack the ability to discern or choose not to discern are the ones lacking in wisdom.


From your confessions it can be deduced that you know nothing to very little of the subtle qualities of light consciousness sound consciousness air consciousness water consciousness (fluidity) heart consciousness or existential reflective consciousness and so forth.

An odd use of the word confession. A better phrase is statement of position. My position is very clear. These are concepts not of facts, but of belief or faith.


Ascension isn't just waking up.. it's about resonating more purely to ...

That is nothing more than new age believe.

Good grief. Wake up. Learn about the world instead of promoting these delusions of your. These sorts of delusions are not new. It has been known for a long time that many people fall for the stories of the snake oil salesman.


You can bet it will be full of love peace joy light & harmony, because these are the conditions of integrity.

More new age horse pucky. For lands sake folks wake up!


But we need to hurry because if we don't act now we risk destroying this beautiful host planet & our species forever & none of us want that. Yes it is simple logic but it is the truth, because we are one even with the greedy bankers & politicians warmongers & terrorists. When they suffer, the planet suffers, & when the planet suffers we suffer. Until we settle the storms of frenzied out of control greed & materialistic growth humanity & all beings of this planet are going to fall deeper and deeper into suffering & darkness until it is wiped out by the force of nature we are foolish not to appreciate.

And the malarkey continues onward. No. Not buying into these religious beliefs. The Earth is not alive., Anthropomorphizing does not make it so.


For example, are you aware that the heart is magnetically 5000 (that's right 5000!) times stronger than the brain.

That's just meaningless. What are we talking here, something in the picotesla range? Less? Maybe femtoteslas? Where did you get this story and what does it matter?



posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by ElevenFlint
[I told you, mate, but it seems you don't read my posts. I gave you some links, did you check them out? I guess no.
Here is the site of scientist Nassim Haramein - The Resonance Project and in one of my previous posts i provided a link where you can watch all his videos online. Watch "The Power of Spin" and "Crossing the Event Horizon" and then we can talk again. It's not only him, many scientists agree on that.


Ok! So i took your advice and went to the Resonance Project website and watched the videos. Looks impressive, but could help but notice the $84.00 price tag on the video this gentleman has produced and wants to sell us. Hmmmmmm. Reguardless, i dived in. Cant say it was anything other than what i expected. I understand the ideas brought up, but since i am not a particle physicist, i can only listen and hope im not being lied to.

So, in order to get another persective, i looked deeper. I found a very interesting, scientific article by someone with a much stronger grasp on particle physics than you or I debunking Mr Haramein in a very logical manner.

I will post a couple basic points, then direct you to the article. It is clear the good Dr Haramein is a new age quack who wants your money.


Originally posted @ azureworld.blogspot.com...

1.

On many of his videos, and on the main page of his Resonance Project's website, he displays a "prestigious" award for one of his physics papers. What is this?

His certificate looks at first to have been awarded for best paper in the whole of "physics, quantum mechanics, relativity, field theory and gravitation" at the entire university of Liège, Belgium in the year 2009, and "chosen by a panel of peer reviewers". That would be quite an accolade.

But when you read the wording, it's clear that it was awarded for best paper presented in that category at a single computing systems conference; and that the 'peer reviewers' who awarded it were just the other people on the conference. Most people understand peer review to mean something quite different.

Two relevant questions here. Firstly, how much would the other people on this conference understand about "physics, quantum mechanics, relativity, field theory and gravitation"? Secondly, how many other papers on these subjects do you think were presented at this particular computing systems conference? It's not likely to be many.

It does sound impressive when described on the website and on videos such as this one. If you've looked at youtube comments and so forth, you'll see that plenty of people are impressed by it. In reality it is no more than a certificate for turning up at a conference in Belgium with a paper.

It seems likely that this is the best he has to show from any respectable institution for his twenty years of research, and he really would like to present something from a university that makes him look like legitimate scientist. You can't accuse him of lying here: to his credit, he puts the certificate in clear view right under our noses. As a display of sheer pretentiousness, it's pretty blatant.

2.

Nassim's main current claim to scientific legitimacy is his paper, The Schwarzschild Proton.

It is eight pages of equations and particle physics, and claims to be a significant step towards potentially deriving the strong force from general relativity. Again, it looks impressive. But there are a number of very sound reasons to dismiss this paper as meaningless.

It's presented as a scientific document, so it's not possible to go into the reasoning properly without using technical language and concepts – which is a shame because I doubt that anyone with a good grasp of these concepts would need me to explain the problems with this paper. For those who are curious, I've presented a more detailed analysis of the Schwarzschild Proton as a separate post.

Broadly, though, the main problems with this paper are:

(a) His overall argument is circular, which means it shows nothing. A hypothesis is presented that a proton might be considered as if it were a black hole, and his first conclusion, after a few pages of equations, is that the forces between them would be very strong, like the forces in a nucleus. But this goes without saying! If you pretend that something is as heavy as a thing can be, then it shouldn't come as a surprise to find that the forces would be as strong as a force can be. There's no significance in this whatsoever.


Had to abbreviate things a little, its a huge article going through a step by step debunking. Ill link you the entire article.
azureworld.blogspot.com...



posted on Oct, 17 2011 @ 01:20 PM
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reply to post by ElevenFlint
 


After more research, an even better article disproving Dr Haramien, this actually gets into particle physics somewhat and explains in laymans terms how wrong he is:

azureworld.blogspot.com...

Pay special attention to point #1. It scientifically and systematically dismantles his Schwarzschild Proton paper, the cornerstone of his entire theory.



posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 03:27 PM
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reply to post by nightbringr
 


The more attention I pay to this article, the more I become certain that it doesn't "dismantle" or "disprove" anything. It's obvious that some guy that teaches physics has seen Haramein's work as a threat to his intellectual world. Of course he would see only contradictions - the resistance to new ideas is a common thing in scientific circles.

I don't need to say anything more, because Haramein himself gives an elaborate enough answer to this guy's "debunking" writings. You can read it here and this is some parts of it:


As such, most of these creative ideas, as seen throughout history, typically come from outside, independent thinkers who blindside the academic institutions: Einstein being the most famous example, as he published what were considered to be extremely controversial views at the time, while working as a third class clerk at the Burn patent office. The same man later authored, while recollecting the difficulties he encountered in publishing and getting acceptance for his ideas: “Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.”

I actually don’t believe in mediocre minds, as I consider that everyone is born brilliant but that certain life experiences and difficulties can reduce one’s capacity to access deeper levels of awareness that are necessary for creative and fundamental reflection. Here the inhibitors are constraints resulting from a style of education in which what is taught is proclaimed as the truth and the only truth, and where students are discouraged and severely reprimanded if they tend to wander in the awful world of untruth as predetermined by the Obvious Truth Holder. This type of attitude engenders these typical remarks from the gentleman who is the Obvious Truth Holder:

“The reason I want to ‘debunk’ him is because he’s wrong. I teach physics and maths to students, and I think it’s important to let them know when something is wrong. It’s important to be able to tell truth from falsehood – if we don’t, then we lose sight of truth altogether.” Remarkable! It reminds me of this example from an elementary school teacher. This attitude is most likely what Einstein was pointing at when he stated, “The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education.”



Further, I have taught thousands of people throughout my time both in the ski and climbing industries and some 20 years of giving lectures and seminars. I have learned a few things throughout these years and one of them is that truth is a moving target. The truths of today were once untruths, and the untruths of today may become the truth of tomorrow. So Dr. Bob-a-thon, do not fear losing sight of the truth, as what you have found in the standard model is a partial truth and certainly an incomplete model and should be taught as such.



In his point #1, the first and second paragraph clearly attempt to discredit the validity of the CASYS’09 Conference because of the gentleman’s unfamiliarity with this event and insinuates that the postings on my website mislead people to believe that it was an award given for all of physics where it is made clear that the award was given to The Schwarzschild Proton paper for the section of the CASYS’09 Conference in the field of “Physics, Quantum Mechanics, Relativity, Field Theory, and Gravitation” which took place at the University of Liege in Belgium. www2.ulg.ac.be...



It seems like I can’t even get the gentleman’s real name or find any of his credentials to be able to ascertain his capacity to review my work. As such, since he gave himself the name Bob-a-thon I shall call him Dr. Bob-a-thon, which, interestingly, I found to have a very disturbing definition in the urban dictionary b.o.b.-a-thon: It may be that the gentleman had not done a full investigation before jumping to conclusions and choosing this pseudonym.


Anyway, I am not here to advocate Haramein's work, neither to convince anybody of anything. For those willing to live in denial no "proof" or "evidence" will ever be good enough. It's obvious that my OP was misunderstood several times and even its title, where clearly is stated "CHOOSE". Everyone is free to believe in whatever they choose. Don't blame the aftermath on others though.


edit on 18-10-2011 by ElevenFlint because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by ElevenFlint
reply to post by nightbringr
 
Anyway, I am not here to advocate Haramein's work, neither to convince anybody of anything. For those willing to live in denial no "proof" or "evidence" will ever be good enough. It's obvious that my OP was misunderstood several times and even its title, where clearly is stated "CHOOSE". Everyone is free to believe in whatever they choose. Don't blame the aftermath on others though.
I don't have a problem with anybody standing up on a soapbox and shouting at the top of their lungs that ["this and that" is (more important/more profound/more impactful) than "this or that"].

It is, after all, how information is dispersed and shared and (hopefully) "intelligently" debated about.

However, I do find it distasteful when someone proclaims that they "believe in freedom of choice" or that they are not "trying to convince anyone of anything" but then use a sort of hinted "you better follow my lead or else" comment to finish their statement.

To that end, especially in a discussion about how a new conciousness level has been reached, this sort of commenting shows that the human conciousness is as messed up now as it has been for thousands of years.

-saige-
edit on 18-10-2011 by saige45 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 18 2011 @ 07:05 PM
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reply to post by ElevenFlint
 



It's obvious that some guy that teaches physics has seen Haramein's work as a threat to his intellectual world. Of course he would see only contradictions - the resistance to new ideas is a common thing in scientific circles.

Clearly you are ignorant when it comes to science and the scientific process.

Haramein whines about the outsider and his rejection. Haramein is acting like a fraud and not a scientist. Haramein lies in his comparison to Einstein. Haramein is not Einstein. Einstein's ideas proposed solutions to current problems and were testable and were tested.

Haramein also makes a sham claim that everyone is born brilliant. Sorry, simply not true.

Haramein and his ideas are wrong. Lots of ideas are wrong. They are put out there and tested. Haramein never even got published in a peer reviewed journal did he?

The OP is like Haramein's paper. It is full of baloney claims which I pointed out and now all you do is pretend that all you meant was everyone has a choice. My choice is to point out the nonsense claims.



posted on Oct, 19 2011 @ 07:21 AM
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reply to post by stereologist
 


Exactly.

If Haramien was a real scientist with a real theory, he would welcome outside scrutiny, especially from his peers. If Dr Bobathon has found a flaw in his work, as je obviously did and very scientifically explained in the second blog I posted, Dr Haramien would accept the failure and continue to refine his theory or work around the problem.

Since he is a sham, all he can do is try and discredit the poster.



posted on Oct, 19 2011 @ 07:25 AM
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Originally posted by saige45
I don't have a problem with anybody standing up on a soapbox and shouting at the top of their lungs that ["this and that" is (more important/more profound/more impactful) than "this or that"].


I am not doing any such thing. It's you who is making this association. If you can use your mind properly you can see it by yourself.


Originally posted by saige45It is, after all, how information is dispersed and shared and (hopefully) "intelligently" debated about.


There has been no try for a debate since this thread was created. There were those who understood what I am saying and those who plainly ridiculed it. An "intelligent debate" is something uncommon for this board.


Originally posted by saige45However, I do find it distasteful when someone proclaims that they "believe in freedom of choice" or that they are not "trying to convince anyone of anything" but then use a sort of hinted "you better follow my lead or else" comment to finish their statement..


I understand what you're saying, but I am afraid you are acting according to a misconception of yours and again a wrong association. I do not either say, nor hint anything connected with following of "my lead" . It's just plain logic: you choose - you take responsibility of the consequences. Simple. Did you put the negative meaning on my statement by yourself?


Originally posted by saige45To that end, especially in a discussion about how a new conciousness level has been reached, this sort of commenting shows that the human conciousness is as messed up now as it has been for thousands of years.


True to a certain degree. You are a good proof of that. And please don't get me wrong once again - I do totally understand you. Only thing is that you forget to count the subjectivity added to the meaning of my message by yourself. But it's a common mistake.

It's obvious that there are people who have found this message useful. If you are not among them, just ignore it. What concern is it of yours? Or are you doing exactly what you are muttering at - trying to say what's right/important/intelligent ang what's not? I hope not. I am sure you have more important things to do.



posted on Oct, 19 2011 @ 07:53 AM
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SnF OP
K so now I'm awake right ? And i guess I only thought I was awake 5 minutes ago ? I hope no one comes along with anymore great threads like this.

I gotta get some sleep.



posted on Oct, 19 2011 @ 08:41 AM
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Beautifully written OP
Will have to come back to this...intrigued but weary.
s & f



posted on Oct, 19 2011 @ 07:18 PM
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Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by voyger2
 


The Earth has none of the properties of a living organism. I list some here.
1. Ability to self replicate
2. Can grow
3. Exhibits metabolic processes
4. Reacts to stimuli

Can you show anything that suggests that the Earth is alive.

intro: my native language is portuguese, so sorry for my mistakes..if you want try to wright in portugues and we can compare who wrigth's best..with out translaters program's and stuff like that...

let's be precise on this, ok? you where saying: "Why would anyone think that the Earth is alive? " it's diferent from compare it to an organism! In the all universe you don't know what stuff can be alive!! It doesn't have to be an organism, like in your definition... Life as you know it, could be more than that, or even can't have any of those 4 permisse's all toghether.
but let's see one by one.
The ability to replicate in the universe doesn't have to be a faculty (that's a man made premiss for life, based on knowledge that he haves on this tiny solar system- more precisely our earth) , somehow this remember's me the egg and chicken (the egg doesn't replicate by itself, altough the chicken lives...so who came first?). oh! and if you want to go deep, you can create know an a "organism" that can't replicate (use genetics) and be able to live by your definition. By the way your sperm is alive and it can't replicate if he dosen't have an egg ( for wakward point of view our solar system can be a litle electron on that tine lilte sperm that need's an egg)....i don't know if the earth can replicate by itself or with a help of ohter thing or stuff...in the sopused earth life or time the human race presence is so tiny that it can't be visible on this time scale en.wikipedia.org...

second: growth or evolution or development could be this en.wikipedia.org...:TectonicReconstructionGlobal2.gif
and you can't say it isn't because you don't have that knowledge neither do i... at this stage of human kind evolution...oh..by the way the sperm doesn't grow also (and it's alive)

third: metabolic...hum... i don't know (neither do you) if our star is feeding our planet with cosmic rays, x-rays, magnietc etc (making our earth, to shake, to rotate, to erupt, to move, to let plant's grow, water stay liquid, produce carbon, methan,shield UV, mainetain oxigen, etc etc) .... oh dear! again the sperm....


fourth: reacts to stimuli..hum ..let's...there are some theyories that earthquakes are consequence of solar eruptions (cme's) our a combination of other factors with that...but like i said already ..we are to fresh on this planet to understand it ..lika our solar system and almost everything in our visible universe....so lot's of exemples could be put on the table for this one....

so ... i don't know if earth is alive, i don't have that knowlodege, neither you have that proves the oposite .. i like to have an open mind... even for those thing's that i think that are for granted...we afre always learnig everey day of our lifes....so .... if you don't agree with other based on your belives try to respect the belives of the rest... at first earth was the center of the universe..know, it's only a beautifull and special place in this vast universe...one day it could be special place in vast and infinit multi-verse and so on....even the speed of light 300.000km's/sec. it seem's it isn't the ultimate frontier ..so ... start learnig with other's with difernt opinions...thet arent any geniuos, but neither you are...

peace... respect.



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