This IS NOT the Revolution

reply to post by gwydionblack


I may not agree with everything the OP said, but that was an excellent post. Nicely done.

Originally posted by eleven44


THIS IS ABOUT CHANGE. THIS IS ABOUT LOVE. THIS IS ABOUT COMING TOGETHER
.

Yeah, well, if the last 6000 years of human history is any indicator, peace and love don't get results. They get you dead.

Enjoy the two party system Black

you have become the enforcer now, you are the kings right hand, pretty cool how
quickly that happens?


www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


How would you bring about change? You seem to have a good idea of a plan. How would you get these elite to do as the OWS wish?
Your peaceful rallies garner nothing but mockery from office windows, you take them to court and wait patiently to be fed scraps appeasing enough to make you believe you've won something, when truly they've done nothing but bought your allegiance, you take your message to the media and they spin it to seem like you have no concise voice. They are laughing at you. Any freedom you believe you have to fight these people is an illusion. If you want change, you are going to have to take it from them by force.

Originally posted by tangonine

Originally posted by eleven44


THIS IS ABOUT CHANGE. THIS IS ABOUT LOVE. THIS IS ABOUT COMING TOGETHER
.

Yeah, well, if the last 6000 years of human history is any indicator, peace and love don't get results. They get you dead.

Yeah, man, if only Jesus, MLK, John Lennon, Plato, etc, etc, would have all just realized that too I bet they would have stopped being Peaceful and Loving immediately. That way they could have lived longer, MLK and Lennon might even still be alive to this day! I mean, you wouldn't have a clue who they were nor would they have made any positive difference in the world...but, hey, at least they wouldn't have been killed!

...but if you're point was to say that you shouldn't act out of love and peace because it might anger people...well...I love you.

Originally posted by tangonine

Originally posted by eleven44


THIS IS ABOUT CHANGE. THIS IS ABOUT LOVE. THIS IS ABOUT COMING TOGETHER
.

Yeah, well, if the last 6000 years of human history is any indicator, peace and love don't get results. They get you dead.

Well, sometimes they just get you gonorhea, and some crow to swallow when its time to get a job.

Originally posted by FugitiveSoul
reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

 

How would you bring about change? You seem to have a good idea of a plan. How would you get these elite to do as the OWS wish?
Your peaceful rallies garner nothing but mockery from office windows, you take them to court and wait patiently to be fed scraps appeasing enough to make you believe you've won something, when truly they've done nothing but bought your allegiance, you take your message to the media and they spin it to seem like you have no concise voice. They are laughing at you. Any freedom you believe you have to fight these people is an illusion. If you want change, you are going to have to take it from them by force.

edit on 10-10-2011 by FugitiveSoul because: (no reason given)

Take your money out of the banks.
Stop spending money at corporate stores and chains.
Support local farmers, local artists and local store owners.
Love thy neighbor: it will make them feel better (and more loved) in this world, which will thus make them be nicer to people, which will thus make them feel better and thus be nicer to other people, etc, etc. It's the Trickle Up theory.
Create your own job. Be an inventor. Be creative. Be an artist. Whatever you want to be, be it and create it and do it without corruption and with a dedicated service to helping others, not strictly to harboring profit.
Demand, peacefully, that local business' and companies use eco-friendly, sustainable resources. This will create more of a demand for companies that offer eco-friendly, sustainable resources, thus creating more jobs in that industry.

^^ These are just a few ideas that came off the top of my head. (Thanks for motivating me enough to actualize them into existence.)

Acting out of violence is not changing anything, it is nothing new. It will be the same ol' thing time and time again.

Change the world. Choose love. And do not use the excuse that it will not help. The more people we get to believe and understand that it not only DOES help, but is the only thing that can, the sooner we will actualize a peaceful world.

reply to post by GmoS719


This is typical of someone against my ideas. They attack me for what I "haven't done" yet they honestly don't know a think about who I am, what I have done, or what I am capable of.

The fact that I rarely post on ATS while occasionally lurking should show in the very least that my life doesn't consist of talking about conspiracy theories and revolutions. In fact, the remainder of my time is spent doing other thing, some of them work related, some of them family related, and much of them activism related. I spread my word on here, I spread my word to those close to me, and I spread the word to those in my area via a weekly newsletter I print.

What have I done? Well I'm not about to prove myself to you, but I can say that I have done a lot more to achieve what I have, and have never once asked to have something handed to me unlike many in OWS.


reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


You are delusional if you think the Arab Spring went anywhere without the violence involved. Typical ignorance. Next you are going to say the American Revolution was won with political rhetoric and the fighting was just done on the side.

Did you not read the examples I listed? Did you not see how easily the people were ignored then? WHAT IS SO DIFFERENT NOW?

Absolutely nothing. Peaceful change is delusional, especially in a society that is so disconnected and split between one another, it would be hard to choose a place everyone would like to eat let alone a method to change society. The American people aren't held together at the seems by Hinduism and a religious prophet unlike a peaceful revolution that did work. They are torn apart by bitter conflict each day and they will never - I repeat - NEVER unify under a peaceful protest in the amount needed for it to work.


reply to post by mastahunta

I'm not sure what you mean by that, but the two party system is dead to me. There are conservatives and liberals and everything in between, no doubt, but I don't judge people based upon those designations. I am pro-freedom and that is about it. Real freedom. The freedom to choose whatever it is you want to do so long as it doesn't hurt the freedom of someone else. There should be endless options of how people choose to live their lives and that is the party line that I tow.

reply to post by eleven44


Jesus didn't bring about any political change and neither did Lennon. MLK might have achieved change through peace, but that was coupled with the violence that other groups brought to the table. You can't simply pretend like it never happened and say MLK did it all peacefully.

reply to post by eleven44


Your system would work if people worked together, if they were bound by some higher moral code - but Americans are not. The support needed to institute any of your ideas is huge and would not be found. As I said, even if all the Tea Partiers AND OWS protestors decided to go up on the plan, you still have 250 million + people who go about business as usual and they aren't about to give up their luxuries for something they don't even know is guaranteed.

The peaceful change, the whole economic boycott and stepping outside the system is a PIPE DREAM, a scenario that doesn't have the proper statistics to make it happen. The only way it will happen is on a small scale and it will do no justice whatsoever. It will simply be a waste of time, a hope killer for those who believe in it.

Hell, maybe it should be done. Just to prove to yourselves that it isn't going to happen. Maybe that way people can stop trying to shove it down the throat of America like some kind of medicine. Sure, it may cure us in the end, but people are too worried about the side effects in the meantime.

reply to post by eleven44

Originally posted by eleven44

Take your money out of the banks.
Stop spending money at corporate stores and chains.
Support local farmers, local artists and local store owners.
Love thy neighbor: it will make them feel better (and more loved) in this world, which will thus make them be nicer to people, which will thus make them feel better and thus be nicer to other people, etc, etc. It's the Trickle Up theory.
Create your own job. Be an inventor. Be creative. Be an artist. Whatever you want to be, be it and create it and do it without corruption and with a dedicated service to helping others, not strictly to harboring profit.
Demand, peacefully, that local business' and companies use eco-friendly, sustainable resources. This will create more of a demand for companies that offer eco-friendly, sustainable resources, thus creating more jobs in that industry.

Good luck starting out a new business without a bank, good luck buying a home without a bank. Every day more and more of Main Street is filled with empty shops, while Wal-Marts move into towns decimating the local economy by forcing local companies under, leaving no other occupation but to work for the very corporation that put your life’s work out of business. Then you work for said corporation, making minimal wages, unable to earn enough to shop in the more expensive local shops, meaning you have to work and shop at the same store, taking “advantage” of the store’s discount, which really isn’t a discount at all, seeing that they price gouge the Chinese garbage they pawn off to begin with. Have you ever heard the song “I sold my soul at the company store?” Towns have been destroyed by corporate America. All that remains are the legacy shops that have been around forever. New businesses fold in less than 5 years, leaving proprietors in debt and slaves to the banks they borrowed the capital from to start up their dream business.
Being an artist is easier said than done, and obviously not an option for most. I for one can create art, but selling it requires money; money to open a gallery, or money to place your work in a gallery, money to advertise. Most artist sell their work in local privately operated stores under consignment, but with privately owned stores failing more and more every day, it leaves many artists without an outlet. The average person doesn’t have the thousands upon thousands of dollars for start up capital and are forced to resort to banks to get the money, the very banks that do their upmost to make sure that you are indentured to them for the rest of your life.

Originally posted by eleven44

Yeah, man, if only Jesus, MLK, John Lennon, Plato, etc., would have all just realized that too, I bet they would have stopped being Peaceful and Loving immediately. That way they could have lived longer, MLK and Lennon might even still be alive to this day! I mean, you wouldn't have a clue who they were nor would they have made any positive difference in the world...but, hey, at least they wouldn't have been killed!

Jesus, Martin Luther King, Plato…. Would these men be as famous had they not been killed? Would their words have carried as much weight if they had not of been martyred? You die for a cause; your message motivates the masses.
I’m not saying we have to fight these people, necessarily, but I am saying that we have to disrupt their way of life enough that they kill to regain control. You must push the enemy until they break, until they show their true colors. I’m not trying to be Christ, Plato, or John Lennon, but history has shown that Malcolm X was more affective than King at pushing the movement of their day.

Well said OP. I've been thinking about all this in the back of my mind but you finally organized it and put it perfectly. I know exactly what you mean - that there have been massive protests before with way more supporters and a much more clearly defined goal, and those got practically nowhere, speaking for the US. I too don't think this is the great revolution or change we've been waiting for either, but I would love to be proven wrong.

reply to post by gwydionblack


I tend to agree with most of your points.

Kicker is, I think that the "protesters" are tools and dont realize it.

All they need is a BIG "provocation" to bring it all down via Martial Law.

Van Jones....

Bottom up, top down, inside out.

Oh well, I've been predicting this for about 20 years but didnt think it would come from the socialists.

Go figure.

Originally posted by ALOSTSOUL
I really don't understand you Americans. You go on and on about taking down the fed, the Governments and all other manner of mis-haps but when someone actually does something about it, you moan and complain that this isn't what we wanted blah blah blah.

Are you really that scared of change?

ALS

what are they doing differently? They have all ways protested. Holding some signs and chanting in the streets is going to nothing. Showing them that your not going to take any bull # by running the cops off will have them peeing in their pants.

Great post OP. While I support the protesters, I am also wary of the fact that the movement has been financed by the same money that is making the world burn, added with provocateurs on the front lines.

Massive upheaval is the only answer...peace can only last so long until you realize that your oppressor plans to # on you regardless of your complaints.

Still, its good to see and hear the people have had enough.

Pretty good points OP but I don't agree that the protesters need to become violent They do, however, need is to be SMART.

While I applaud OWS' willingness to stand up, without a clear and accurate understanding of the problems and an intelligent modus operandi to convey their angst nothing of substance can be accomplished Angst alone is fairly meaningless.

Problem 1
We are being played off against each other. "Right" and "Left" are two sides of the same coin and that coin is owned by a private banking cartel known as the "Federal" Reserve.

The "Federal" Reserve is a privately owned credit monopoly. The US government pays money (in the form of interest) to the "F'R for the privilege of using the money the "F'R prints.

The Federal Reserve is part of a larger global banking system known as the Bank of International Settlements
www.bis.org... Our entire financial system is in the hands of private global bankers with their own nefarious agendas.

As a result....

Problem 2
Our representative republic has devolved into a crony, insider based plutocracy. Very little free market capitalism remains. Our elected "representatives" by and large represent only their own interests and those of their multinational corporate sponsors.

Problem 3
As a result of the undo influence mega banks and mega corps have on "our representatives", laws and regulations have been written to destroy free market competition and further their monopolistic aspirations.

Most notably, the Glass Steagall Act was repealed which essentially allowed the banking industry to go hog wild and invent all sorts of exotic financial instruments which directly lead to the financial crisis of 2008. Despite what some would say that it was bad mortgages, the problem was that the banks sold and resold them and leveraged bad investments resulting in a mountain of band created bad debt.

The American people were then scared and fooled into bailing these guys out and they were never brought to the carpet in any real way nor were the laws changed to prevent this from happening again (because of problem 1).

Therefore, OWS in failing to address the real problems in a systematic way, such as strongly requesting the presence of their Congressmen and women down there and demanding a Fed Audit, a reinstatement of Glass Steagall and an end to undo corporate influence on legislation.

I watch this whole thing play out with dismay. I see a great opportunity being lost because primarily because of ignorance.

Originally posted by GeorgiaGirl

Originally posted by Stan71
I would say it's a good start. I would guess to say that the protesters are using "Wall Street" as a symbol of what America has come too be known... Greedy. Weather it's government or corporate corruption it all comes down to money and GREED. Our politicians take money from corporations to push their agendas and policies while they sit back and rake in the money. I don't think Wall Street is entirely at fault. Our "elected" officials have allowed this to happen so they can get that campaign money for the next election. The whole system needs to be fixed.

1) Ban corporate lobbying.
2) Close the tax loopholes that allow corporations to pay next to nothing in taxes.
3) Penalize corporations that send our jobs overseas.
4) Fix the trade deficits with other countries.
5) And stop the BS with "to big to fail"... let them. If they can't make sound business decisions, they should go bankrupt.

I don't think the OWS movement is the way to go about it, but I aggree with EVERY ONE of your 1-5 topics above.

I've been a tea party supporter from the beginning. Both the tea party and OWS agree that the problem is corruption. I think it's corruption in GOVERNMENT that is the main problem, because of all of the laws that have benefitted their cronies.

But the corruption problem isn't limited to just the GOVERNMENT. It's pervasive throughout the CORPORATE and GOVERNMENT circles.

And for the record: I support OWS.

I also support the Tea Party.

I didn't vote for Obama and I certainly don't plan to.

We need to exhaust peaceful resolution before we consider a violent revolution.
This movement needs to provoke a response from the government to show their true intentions.
It needs a catalyst, something inspiring for people to want to say enough is enough.
To hit hard the reality that we've actually been in a state of war for nearly 70 years now, the last 10 being in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and a proxy war in Georgia. That we don't want to war anymore. We want peace.

Lead the world by example.

Nothings ever changes because he who holds the money makes the rules.

So what do you do other than complain in forums for a change, it's simple. Be the change you want to see.

Complaining will do us no good. And for this reason, I applaud this good protesters, that are doing something for a change.

I only wish I was there in the US...

i wish i could find the video i watched when ows took the brooklyn bridge and some guy off camera said we should just keep marching over these cops and another guy responded "what are you crazy?? nobody is willing to die for this sh*t"

this struck me as the failure of the protests.... if you are not willing to stand up for what you believe in.....

soldiers are sent to defend their country and have died defending their country serving their country believing it is RIGHT

if you are going to stand up and say you are defending your right to free speech you should be willing to die for free speech....

the day police use lethal means to deter protest will be the USA's darkest day and the final days will begin.

it will take one death from a taser to make it real for the people....

i dont know.... just 2 cents....

i do believe in the revolution..... i do not believe ows is a revolution.... sitting down and letting the bully beat you will not make him go away.....

We had a saying in the "revolutionary days of the the 60's protests.
"The Revolution WILL NOT be Televised!!!"

And...why not? Because IF it was the REAL REVOLUTION? No one would be home to watch any tv. Theyd' be too busy REVOLTING...in the streets..everywhere...everyone. And they arent, it isnt...so its not.

Its so simple....sigh...great post OP. Cudos 2 u!!