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posted on Oct, 10 2011 @ 06:08 AM
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Originally posted by BroketheWall
reply to post by Arbitrageur
 

Here you go...to quote your guy "astronomers know what the hell there looking at" heres hynek on people who know what the hell there looking at. I dont know how to embed on my phone but heres the link...
www.youtube.com...
I think you need to pay a lot more attention.

Tyson didn't say that astronomers don't see UFOs. He said that astronomers look up a lot more than most people and they don't see more UFOs, rather their sighting rate is lower. He never said they don't see ANY ufos.

Also in your video, Hynek said nothing about aliens, he talked about UFOs. Well if you see an airplane flying at night and you don't know it's an airplane, it's a UFO, so yes it happens all the time that people see UFOs.

But are any of them aliens? That's where the skeptics feel the proof is lacking. There's no lack of UFO sightings.

Also note the type of poll Hynek talks about in that video is biased, because those interested in the topic return the survey, and those who aren't, don't. That biases the results.

I did laugh at Hyneks joke: "If you want to see flying saucers, goose the waitress".

edit on 10-10-2011 by Arbitrageur because: clarification




posted on Oct, 10 2011 @ 06:21 AM
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Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by BroketheWall
reply to post by Arbitrageur
 

Here you go...to quote your guy "astronomers know what the hell there looking at" heres hynek on people who know what the hell there looking at. I dont know how to embed on my phone but heres the link...
www.youtube.com...
I think you need to pay a lot more attention.

Tyson didn't say that astronomers don't see UFOs. He said that astronomers look up a lot more than most people and they don't see more UFOs, rather their sighting rate is lower. He never said they don't see ANY ufos.

Also in your video, Hynek said nothing about aliens, he talked about UFOs. Well if you see an airplane flying at night and you don't know it's an airplane, it's a UFO, so yes it happens all the time that people see UFOs.

But are any of them aliens? That's where the skeptics feel the proof is lacking. There's no lack of UFO sightings.

Also note the type of poll Hynek talks about in that video is biased, because those interested in the topic return the survey, and those who aren't, don't. That biases the results.


I agree with you, and i think there's a very simple expanation for why astronomers don't see more, but even less UFO's. Here's why:

We as normal people look at the nights sky with our naked eye, haveing a wide angle view and very limeted. So we pick up a lot that is in the sky.

Astronomers look true telescopes, to stars, galaxies, and more. They 'limit' there view because they focus on a point far away. This is why they don't see what 'potentionally' is happening right in front of them.

Sounds very logical to me.



posted on Oct, 10 2011 @ 06:31 AM
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reply to post by Arbitrageur
 


Well when it looks like a giant hieroglyph and changes different colors in miliseconds then splits into 3 different ships and then completely disapears ummm lol I think I know the difference between that and an airplane buddy!



posted on Oct, 10 2011 @ 06:42 AM
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Originally posted by Required01
Astronomers look true telescopes, to stars, galaxies, and more. They 'limit' there view because they focus on a point far away. This is why they don't see what 'potentionally' is happening right in front of them.

Sounds very logical to me.
If you said "amateur astronomers", I'd agree you may have a plausible explanation.

You may not be aware of this, but astronomers stopped looking through telescopes a long time ago.

astro.uchicago.edu...

Astronomers don't look through telescope eyepieces any more! Telescopes send their data to computers, and astronomers view them in a separate control room.


reply to post by BroketheWall
 

I didn't say ALL UFOs are airplanes.

You have to look at this UFO identification chart to tell what it was:




Seriously though, in one study, aircraft accounted for only 22% of UFO sightings; there were lots of other causes identified too:
en.wikipedia.org...
edit on 10-10-2011 by Arbitrageur because: clarification



posted on Oct, 10 2011 @ 06:59 AM
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reply to post by Arbitrageur
 
your right it was probably a weather balloon..come on now I know what I saw and ive seen alot more than that... not sayin it was alien but definetly weird! Theres alot more evidence of aliens than just seein things in the sky.



posted on Oct, 10 2011 @ 07:15 AM
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Originally posted by BroketheWall
not sayin it was alien but definetly weird! Theres alot more evidence of aliens than just seein things in the sky.
I don't doubt you saw something weird. Maybe it was aliens you saw but if there's no evidence of that then there's no evidence of that.


Theres alot more evidence of aliens than just seein things in the sky.
Such as?



posted on Oct, 10 2011 @ 07:49 AM
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in 70 years alien visitation believers still havn't cracked the null hypothesis for ufos which is:

all UFOs are of mundane origin.

That statement has yet to be proven wrong. Good luck

edit on 10-10-2011 by yeti101 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 10 2011 @ 12:04 PM
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reply to post by yeti101
 


I like to prescribe to that notion.


BUT


Lets not dismiss the "possibility" of highly advanced alien beings visiting Earth for their own scientific purposes.

Think about it if you were in their shoes. You are flying to a distant star and approach a planet. On this planet there are bio-masses of beings living in vertical edifices. You want to study one of them so you decide to go to a less populated area. You don't want to get bitten by that large biomass so you go abduct a "redneck" instead.

Think about it. The reason people are so dismissive about the subject is because of fear. They are afraid of beings that could be more intelligent or even have more advanced tech. Its more of an ego bruiser than anything else.
edit on 10-10-2011 by BIGPoJo because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 10 2011 @ 12:31 PM
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Originally posted by BIGPoJo
Think about it. The reason people are so dismissive about the subject is because of fear. They are afraid of beings that could be more intelligent or even have more advanced tech. Its more of an ego bruiser than anything else.
Are some people afraid? Maybe.

I don't know whether to be afraid or not until I see any evidence of them. If they're benevolent, I'm not afraid, but if they're powerful and not benevolent, maybe we'd have good reason to fear them.

But you can't say that's "the reason" is because it's not. Since I'm ambivalent on the fear issue and only plan to have the amount of fear that's rationally justified by the facts, "the reason" I'm skeptical is lack of credible evidence, not fear.



posted on Oct, 10 2011 @ 04:14 PM
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reply to post by Arbitrageur
 


Lets see, pyramids, cave drawing, nazca lines, vedic teachings, star child skull,crop circles, implants found that dont have terrestrial materials...i could go for days!



posted on Oct, 10 2011 @ 04:59 PM
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Originally posted by BroketheWall

Why do you think aliens arent real given theres billions upon billions of stars?

Bit of a straw man, don't you think? I don't know of anyone who takes the position that there is no possibility of extraterrestrial life. In fact, most of the scientist with an opinion on it think it's highly probable or even certain. A great deal of effort is being expended to find past or present life on Mars as a result.



Is it against your religion?

Imagine no religion....



Does it scare you?

Does what scare me? Life on other planets? Not at all.



If aliens showed up and proved to you that every belief system you ever had was not true, how would you feel?

I'm already there on most of them, so they'd just be finishing the job. Fantastic!



What if they showed up to help you and your family live, would you go with them?


Maybe, but that would all depend on how much help we need...



What if they break the cycles of lies and wars with just by them showing us are true nature?

Again, do you know what you mean by "they?" I don't.
No doubt "they" would be here To Serve Man. I would be wary of any bargains.



posted on Oct, 11 2011 @ 12:49 AM
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Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by Required01
Astronomers look true telescopes, to stars, galaxies, and more. They 'limit' there view because they focus on a point far away. This is why they don't see what 'potentionally' is happening right in front of them.

Sounds very logical to me.
If you said "amateur astronomers", I'd agree you may have a plausible explanation.

You may not be aware of this, but astronomers stopped looking through telescopes a long time ago.

astro.uchicago.edu...

Astronomers don't look through telescope eyepieces any more! Telescopes send their data to computers, and astronomers view them in a separate control room.



LOL, that makes even more sense, as to why astronomers see less UFO's then common folk.



posted on Oct, 11 2011 @ 01:02 AM
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reply to post by Arbitrageur
 


I just wanted to say that I agree with you in nearly everything you have said in this thread.

The OP doesn't seem to grasp that a true skeptic doesn't believe ANYTHING without facts and verifiable proof. UFO and alien visitation claims and theories have neither.



posted on Oct, 11 2011 @ 04:33 AM
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Hello.........


I think aliens......... visited us and tried to become false gods...... but....... most of the modern religion......... have denounced these false gods....... If aliens come and want to take on us....... I m not sure what will be the outcome....... but i know for sure aliens will have hell of time to subdue us......... despite there advance tech......... something even they cannot do........ what if the cycle of lies and mistrust was set in by alliens......... to prevent our technological growth.........?? very soon i will post threads about it..........


Have fun........ Peace.........
Primus



posted on Oct, 11 2011 @ 05:39 AM
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Originally posted by Chamberf=6
reply to post by Arbitrageur
 


I just wanted to say that I agree with you in nearly everything you have said in this thread.

The OP doesn't seem to grasp that a true skeptic doesn't believe ANYTHING without facts and verifiable proof. UFO and alien visitation claims and theories have neither.


I will go one step further and state that this skeptic doesn't want to BELIEVE in anything. I want to KNOW. There is a crisp difference in the two stances.... If all I wanted to do was believe in "whatever" I could end this infuriating eternal search for evidence that would lead to verifiable proof right here and now, but I'm not wired that way and I'm not lazy enough to just give up and accept what most other believers accept as their "proof", which isn't proof at all.... to me belief is willful ignorance...



posted on Oct, 11 2011 @ 06:40 AM
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Originally posted by BroketheWall
Lets see, pyramids, cave drawing, nazca lines, vedic teachings, star child skull,crop circles, implants found that dont have terrestrial materials...i could go for days!
Let's see, the same species that figured out how to put a man on the moon couldn't have possibly figured out how to stack some rocks on top of each other, as in the pyramids, is that about right? Therefore the only possible explanation is, that aliens must have done it.


I call that the "our ancestors were dummies" theory which is ridiculous since our ancestors had both dumb and smart people in their populations, just like we do today. The tendency for some people is to think "I don't know how they did it, therefore it couldn't have been done by humans". Just because YOU don't know how they did it, doesn't mean some smart person thousands of years ago didn't know how to do it. Did you ever watch Wally Wallington move 20 ton blocks around all by himself using nothing but sticks and stones? No aliens needed, just a little ingenuity.

Virtually everything on your list has no evidence of aliens. The "star child skull" is human. Crop circles are made by hoaxers. Nazca lines are religious artwork. Everything you mentioned, you can search on ATS and find some mundane, non-alien explanations, if you care to look. You didn't even mention the most mysterious phenomenon of all that nobody has ever explained: Chalk Circles


Originally posted by Chamberf=6
reply to post by Arbitrageur
 


I just wanted to say that I agree with you in nearly everything you have said in this thread.
Nearly everything? The aircraft identification chart was just a joke, but I don't think the OP thought it was funny. But thanks for agreeing with me.


Originally posted by Lost_Mind
I will go one step further and state that this skeptic doesn't want to BELIEVE in anything. I want to KNOW.
Before the Tepco incident, my signature was a list of Carl Sagan quotes, and that was one of them, "I don't want to believe, I want to KNOW". Another was "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"

Alien visitation is an extraordinary claim and there is simply no extraordinary evidence of that. Sagan discussed examples at some length in his TV series. But Sagan certainly believed in the possibility of alien life and he even said it was possible that aliens may have visited Earth. The only problem he had with it was that he'd never seen any extraordinary evidence for the extraordinary claim. That's a fairly standard skeptic view.
edit on 11-10-2011 by Arbitrageur because: clarification



posted on Oct, 11 2011 @ 09:16 AM
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Not all crop circles are hoaxes, energy imprints maybe, but some are way to articulate. No I know what true skeptics believe my best friend Is a true skeptic...he doesnt think aliens are visiting but he does admit that there are alot of coincidences in different cultures, but like sagan said he wants to know for sure and theres nothing wrong with that. What I dont understand is why as soon as you get evidence you come up with any simple explination instead of man there could be something to this. Now when I ask the questions, it doesnt mean i believe these things are going to happen for certain but from the conclusion of 10 years of research and certain things happening to me I BELIEVE that its more than likely possible. Just like I believe casey and oj did it because the evidence but ill never know what really happened in this life time, ill put money on alien disclosure before that! For you guys you would want to see a video of the murder to convict. I know its apples and oranges but both are possible.



posted on Oct, 11 2011 @ 09:30 AM
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Originally posted by BroketheWall
from the conclusion of 10 years of research and certain things happening to me I BELIEVE that its more than likely possible.
I just stated that Carl Sagan, a model skeptic, also believed that alien visitation was possible.

So skeptics aren't that much different than you in that regard. Apparently the main difference is the standard of evidence required for a person to go from saying "It's possible", to saying "I believe it's likely" or "I believe it".

If the claim is ordinary, the standards of evidence required are low. If the claim is extraordinary, the standards of evidence required are high. If you want to take crop circles as an example, there's no extraordinary evidence that they aren't manmade. In that case I'd say there's not even any ordinary evidence they aren't manmade. All the so-called evidence to the contrary is, for lack of a better word, bogus.

At least some of the UFO cases seem a little harder to explain than crop circles, and a few UFO cases we can't explain. But why crop circles would impress anybody from an evidentiary perspective escapes me. None of the crop circle claims hold up the the slightest scrutiny, and I've looked at a lot of them.



posted on Oct, 11 2011 @ 09:37 AM
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reply to post by Arbitrageur
 
i actually believe they were smarter than we are!
why, because they were more in touch with nature and there spiritual side. So if we started out as a regular animal I think something had to happen to start are evolution of intelligence. We all take things from the past and expand on them to become more intelligent! how come we are the only species to become this intelligent when we are young compared to other species? Atleast thats what scientist say...
edit on 11-10-2011 by BroketheWall because: Added a scentence



posted on Oct, 11 2011 @ 09:39 AM
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Originally posted by BroketheWall
I would love for the truth of are true nature to come out and belief systems to crumble.


I don't believe you'd want anything of the sort. You already have belief in Jesus. You already have belief in alien space travelers. Our true nature is that we create belief systems to comfort us. Now that you understand this are you willing to give up belief in Jesus and aliens?



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