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How to arrest an officer of the law?

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posted on Oct, 9 2011 @ 07:36 PM
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The reason I want to start this thread is because I've been watching some of the videos from the various protests going around and I keep seeing the law enforcement doing things to people that are violations of the law, such as macing people who are not acting out, or punching people in the stomachs with batons, or even arresting them for simple things that people do in the streets every day. I know that some of you feel the same way I do, and I know that the citizens arrest is one of the rights laid out in the constitution that we as americans have. Surely there have probably been very few cases of people making citizens arrests recently, let alone someone making an arrest on an officer, but maybe it is time for us to reeducate ourselves on this process and put our given rights to use. I would hate to see any wars start up between the protesters and the police, in fact I am sure that if people were not careful, that is exactly what would happen. A lot of these abuses are being caught on video though, and I am wondering how things might have went if a few of the people standing around when the officer maced the girl in NYC had calmly went up to that officer and placed him under citizens arrest.

If anyone has any thoughts or ideas about how this might go down, this thread would be a place to put them up for others to see. It has been said here that making a citizens arrest on an officer is a legal right, but what exactly is the process?

Maybe it is time for those trying to make a peaceful protest to learn how to enforce the peace themselves during that protest, and it might serve to keep some of these innocent victims from harm. It might even serve to gain respect for the protesters if they were seen to be policing themselves from others getting out of line or vandalizing etc.

What are your thoughts??? I am sure that many here have strong feelings on this issue as I do myself, and I would like this thread to be a place for those to share their experiences, scenarios, and/or thoughts, but I would like it to be informative as well, so please, if you have any knowledge about the process share it here, and we'll just hope that the space doesn't get filled by those who want to argue about who is at fault, out of line etc...

Thanks to all, and good luck, keep the peace.




posted on Oct, 9 2011 @ 07:41 PM
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reply to post by phoenix0714
 


Welcome, from one new member to another.



Quite honestly, I think if a protester walked up to a policeman after he had just maced / arrested someone, regardless of whether you saw it as right or wrong, and tried to place him under citizens arrest, you'd probably get a baton in the stomach and a face full of mace yourself. They're not seeing what you're doing as "constitutionally" right, they're seeing you protesting with a huge mob that is very likely to get violent.

I'm pro OWS, btw, I'm just telling you how I think it would happen.

Peace.
edit on 9-10-2011 by QUANTUMGR4V17Y because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 9 2011 @ 07:42 PM
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reply to post by phoenix0714
 


First off, welcome



I am wondering how things might have went if a few of the people standing around when the officer maced the girl in NYC had calmly went up to that officer and placed him under citizens arrest.


Sure you can calmly go up to a cop and tell him he's under citizen's arrest, he's likely to fall over laughing, or he'll taze you. If you lose your calmness, remember he's carrying a gun......

Citizen's arrest doesn't work in real life, not for arresting a cop anyway.



posted on Oct, 9 2011 @ 07:43 PM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Oct, 9 2011 @ 07:47 PM
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Thanks guys, I have been here for a while but I generally use the site for the real news and interesting topics. Like I said, I can see this idea going horribly wrong, but if it was known how the process might go down and the abuses were caught on tape.... I mean if the people trying to make the arrest were informed how to properly go about it, maybe it could make a difference.



posted on Oct, 9 2011 @ 07:49 PM
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Originally posted by bo12au
post removed by staff



Well thats just disturbing.

First of all...the powers of arrest differ from country to country. Depends on where you are. In Canada, where I live, a citizen can only arrest for an indictable offense (or a Felony in the US). If you see a police officer murder someone, you have (according to the law) the right to arrest the officer.

HOWEVER, in reality, you should just call the police, provide evidence of the crime allegedly committed, and let them take it from there. Citizens arrest is only to apprehend a criminal so the police can serve due process.

You don't want to get yourself in trouble if you are wrong, however. Wrongful arrest charges apply to Citizens Arrests aswell.
edit on Sun Oct 9 2011 by DontTreadOnMe because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 9 2011 @ 07:52 PM
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Sure you can calmly go up to a cop and tell him he's under citizen's arrest, he's likely to fall over laughing, or he'll taze you. If you lose your calmness, remember he's carrying a gun......


Okay so you and a few others have calmly went up to the officer and tell him he's under citizens arrest, when he tazes you then he is resisting arrest, I guess. So you remain calm and tell him to put his hands on the car so that you can put your cuffs on him? Do you start reading him his rights? At this point he's broken the law twice. My question is I guess is what would be the process if it was done right?


edit on 9-10-2011 by phoenix0714 because: edit to add



posted on Oct, 9 2011 @ 07:56 PM
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I have read the Constitution numerous times and even taught Constitutional Law for several years

I would be interested to know where exactly in the Constitution it gives allowance for an arrest, citizen or otherwise?

I can give you a clue

It does not

Thank you

Semper



posted on Oct, 9 2011 @ 07:59 PM
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You should change the title to:

"How To Arrest An Officer Of The Law Without Getting Shot Or Locked UP"




posted on Oct, 9 2011 @ 07:59 PM
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reply to post by semperfortis
 


So what you are saying is that the citizens arrest is a myth?



posted on Oct, 9 2011 @ 08:10 PM
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reply to post by phoenix0714
 


You are of course free to read the Constitution yourself, I for one have and for the life of me, can not find any mention of that

Because?

It is simply not in the Constitution

Remember however that the Constitution was written to give the bulk of powers to the States. What you are speaking of is in fact included in several State Constitutions, not all, but several

Also the language is misleading

A citizen not only "can" detain someone committing a crime, in some states he is obligated to do so

Not arrest, detain. An arrest power is a power granted to Law Enforcement by the Governor in the states I have worked in. It may be different in other states

A word of caution here

The law is a complicated thing. That is why Law Enforcement officers go to such rigorous academies and attorneys study for years. If you detain someone you dog gone better be right. If you are not, you are looking at kidnapping charges and spending a large portion of the rest of your life in prison.

Remember that the courts could care less what "YOU" think is wrong. The courts are only interested in the law, be it Common Law or Statutory Law which will vary by state.

You may very well think the officer is violating the law, but if the judge or jury does not agree with you, BYE BYE

Make no mistake about it, you lay hands on a Law Enforcement Officer and you will be arrested. In many states assaulting an officer is a felony charge on top of the fact if you restrict his freedom you are looking at kidnapping..

Semper



posted on Oct, 9 2011 @ 08:15 PM
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The method by which a "civilian" has a police officer, or other rogue official arrested is the method of filing a verified complaint. The purpose of a verified complaint is to find the injured party. So, if it is not you who has been injured, but you who wishes to file the verified complaint, you want to make sure that the injured party is on board and willing to testify that the injury was caused by a police officer, or some other rogue government official.

By "verified", what you are doing when filing such a complaint is swearing under penalty of perjury that your complaint of injury is true. This oath gives the "complainant" standing to invoke the jurisdiction of the lower courts.


"Complainant"-One who applies to the court for redress; one who exhibits a bill of complaint. Benefit Ass’n v. Robinson, 147 Ill. 138, Black’s Law Dictionary, 4th edition, page 356. Redress- The receiving satisfaction for an injury sustained. Black’s Law Dictionary, 4th edition, page 1444.


And...


Standing of Complainant-"As a general principal, standing to invoke the judicial process requires an actual justiciable controversy as to which the complainant has a real interest in the ultimate adjudication because he or she has either suffered or is about to suffer an injury." People v. Superior Court, 126 Cal.Rptr.2d 793.


If you are going to invoke jurisdiction to bring an arrest against a police officer, you must be able to show that there was an injury. If there is no victim, there is no crime.


"In every criminal trial, the prosecution must prove the corpus delecti, or the body of the crime itself-i.e., the fact of injury, loss or harm, and the existence of a criminal agency as its cause." People v. Sapp, 73 P.3d 433, 467 (Cal. 2003) [quoting People v. Alvarez, (2002) 27 Cal.4th 1161, 1168-1169, 119 Cal.Rptr.2d 903, 46 P.3d 372.].


Filing a verified complaint, which usually can be done at your local Sheriff's office, and if not there, try the local magistrates office, is key.



posted on Oct, 9 2011 @ 08:21 PM
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reply to post by semperfortis
 

Thank you for clearing this up for me. I guess I was misleading when I said it was a right in the constitution. Of course I have not read that myself, but took it for granted as to what I have heard more than a few times. Maybe I should change the thread title to "how to detain an officer", but this is exactly the kind of info that I was looking for, thanks.



posted on Oct, 9 2011 @ 08:22 PM
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as mentioned already, OWS is seen as a bunch of trouble makers who are congregating in public space getting ready to cause chaos. A cop, if approached and told he/she was under citizens arrest would more than likely respond swiftly and firmly. Do you think that's never been said to a cop before? You think they've never been to a protest before? You can more than likely already be arrested for something depending on the state anyway, Probable cause, conspiracy to incite riots etc. As i said, state depending.

It seems some of you are living in a magical fantasy world with little green men and mystical asteroids... oh hang on!



posted on Oct, 9 2011 @ 08:40 PM
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reply to post by outsidethesquare
 


Very interesting. So what you are saying is that though the laws make it possible to march and protest etc. they put you in a state where you are basically violating some other laws at the same time, which makes it okay for the negative treatment and reputations that protesters get.



posted on Oct, 9 2011 @ 08:52 PM
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reply to post by semperfortis
 


So what you are saying is this: a citizens arrest is not lawful arrest, but in fact a detain instead. So, if I can get away, I didn't break any laws, presuming the citizen doesn't know me and can't send the cops after me... no?

Example: this guy got taken down right in front of me yesterday (came running across the street, chased by another guy) thought it was going to be a fight at first ... the guy chasing tackled him and got him in a hold, then walked him across the street and sat him down on the sidewalk... another bystander said something to the "chaser" (couldn't hear what) and he replied "he's under arrest" but he never actually did anything (ie. handcuffs, etc.) other than face-plant the guy in the concrete and then force him to sit on the sidewalk, I presume while waiting for the cops.

***

P.s. This was not OWS related (OWS, the city and the police have been cooperating so far)

edit on 9-10-2011 by LadySkadi because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 9 2011 @ 09:00 PM
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If anyone feels that a police officer has committed a crime and needs to be arrested, the common sense thing to do would be to report this crime to the proper authority. Of course, it would help to also produce any evidence or witnesses to this criminal activity. Whether or not the state you live in allows for a citizens arrest, it is just a very bad idea to attempt to place a police officer under citizens arrest. In my humble opinion, this will always turn out bad for you.



posted on Oct, 9 2011 @ 09:36 PM
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reply to post by phoenix0714
 


uhh brush up on your legal skills matey. Just the same as it is legal to drive a car, yet there are things some people do while doing so which are illegal, with a lot of people doing these things unknowingly. Understand?

This whole movement is intended to cause a public disturbance and disruption, open your eyes. The whole point is to be noticed. That's what a protest is. Threads like this are just delusion.
edit on 9/10/2011 by outsidethesquare because: sp



posted on Oct, 9 2011 @ 09:55 PM
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Originally posted by outsidethesquare
reply to post by phoenix0714
 


uhh brush up on your legal skills matey. Just the same as it is legal to drive a car, yet there are things some people do while doing so which are illegal, with a lot of people doing these things unknowingly. Understand?

This whole movement is intended to cause a public disturbance and disruption, open your eyes. The whole point is to be noticed. That's what a protest is. Threads like this are just delusion.
edit on 9/10/2011 by outsidethesquare because: sp


Instead of everyone playing these pointless priest class lawyer games of "legality", why not everyone brush up on their lawful skills?

Of the many differences between what is "legal" and what is lawful, is that under the silly games of "legality", hapless people find themselves "unknowingly" violating the rule set forth. Under law, no person "unknowingly" commits murder, rape, assault, theft, or the myriad of other crimes where a person is demonstrably injured by the action.

"Legality" does not trump any person's rights, but if a person who is having their rights violated doesn't assert their rights, then the games of "legality" dictate that this silence is reasonably construed as a grant of jurisdiction to violate the right. In other words, if people do not assert their rights being violated the moment they are being violated, this silence is, under the games of "legality", reasonably construed that these people have surrendered their rights in order to have the privilege of police officers, or other LEO's bully them around.

Brush up on legal skills?

Ignorantia Juris Non Excusat!

Learn the law!



posted on Oct, 10 2011 @ 12:52 AM
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People do indeed unknowingly commit murder, it's called manslaughter, and generally carries a lesser charge due to the lack of pre-meditation or the 'unknowingly' part. How is that relevant to a protest/mob/demonstration? It's not at all.

If people choose to not 'assert' their 'constitutional rights' when being arrested then that's their choice. And your lovely quoted phrase rings true in that sense.

As i said already, nothing in your reply has any relevance to my statement that there are undoubtedly laws already being broken, albeit most likely very minor infractions, which gives cause for arrests. Could also have been inciting-related offences. With that in mind, there is absolutely zero chance of an arrestee, or pre-emptive arrestee being able to make a 'citizens arrest'. It's pretty much laughable, and ridiculous. However, if you believe there is unjustified violence taking place, gather similar minded individuals and mount a class action? Isn't that also in your 'constitutional rights'?




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