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Why I think Chemtrailers are missing the point

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posted on Oct, 9 2011 @ 05:16 PM
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So, cards on the table right from the off. Yes, I think Chemtrail believers are missing the point completely. Furthermore I wonder if they are mere pawns being used to mask some other issue. At least most of those on here, because, based upon what I see going on within threads, one or two give every impression of being the paid stirrers they so readily accuse others of being.

The thing is, I am perfectly amenable to the idea that things are happening in our atmosphere that are detrimental to us, that these things are man made and that only through research and awareness do we have any chance of having a say in what does and does not happen.

However I look at the "Chemtrail" argument and I am 100% certain that this is not "it", but that it is possibly the greatest red herring in history.

I realise such a statement needs to be backed up by explanations, so here are mine, as succinctly as I can.

The "Chemtrail", when pictured, is invariably, every single time, a contrail doing exactly what contrails do. The only distinction with these assertions is that the person making it either does not understand half the amount they think they do about meteorology, or they are pretending not to. I see, presented as statements of fact, blatantly false statements about the nature of contrails that immediately show the claim to be false. By this I mean things like "contrails don't persist and spread out" "they are laid in a grid pattern" "the fact that some planes left a trail when others did not is suspicious" and other such vacuous nonsense.


The Chemtrail plane is mainly a commercial passenger transport. This, due to reasons explained superbly in the 'Busted' thread, is an absolute impossibility and anyone insisting it's true instantly has no credibility. Notions of commercial planes carrying extra tanks, having it in the fuel or even, as I have seen today, having a spare engine that's only used for spraying are not merely flawed, they are plain stupid. Even a rudimentary understanding of civil aviation should make this clear.

Another reference I saw was to a Cessna and another to Luftwaffe Tornadoes, What?!?

Speaking of which, in the Luftwaffe example, why did a chemtrailer purposely mis translate from German in order to try to convince others? This is something easily checked (and found to be false) so not only was the perpetrator a liar, but an idiot too. Yet some still cling onto it as evidence. Go figure.

What is the purpose of the Chemtrail? Can chemtrailers even agree?

Mind control? And yet people are asking about chemtrails, 9/11, Diana etc so where's the control?

Poisoning? Everyone would be poisoned, anything in the atmosphere at those altitudes goes all around the globe with zero control over when and where it comes down. If that was the idea, it would be one of the most Ill founded and least effective plots in history.

Weather control? Cloud seeding is an entirely different subject and works on existing clouds, not creating new ones in blue skies. Another fail.

It is claimed that this is a phenomenon of the 90's, evidence from the previous fifty years being ignored, as is the consideration that the skies may be cloudier because commercial jets are much much bigger and vastly more numerical than before. No, they must be "up to something", yet another massive leap with nothing to support it.

Another disturbing trait is that actual, bona fide experts such as pilots, engineers, meteorologists etc who offer the mundane and factual explanation are immediately accused of being "disinformation agents" or shills, without any supporting evidence at all, as if the hardcore believer *cannot* enter a dialogue with these experts because they know they will be exposed. Maybe I will be accused of this too, which would at least be solid proof to me that these accusers are bull#ters, the only solid proof they would have ever provided lol.

So, why the fanatical, closed minded obsessive fervour? Never mind what are they trying to prove, what are they trying to HIDE? This is the question that the chemtrailers always get me asking.

And no, I don't expect this collection of thoughts to make a blind bit of difference, I just wanted to say it to see if anyone agrees
edit on 9-10-2011 by waynos because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 9 2011 @ 05:23 PM
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reply to post by waynos
 


Earlier this year I posted an extract from a blog hat suggested that chemtrails might be a "false flag" by hte coal industry - see www.abovetopsecret.com... - since the coal industry is one of the worst polluters worldwide, and chemtrails look liek a tactic to get at least some annoying activists off their back.

AFAIK the basic fact remains true - coal is still a major, if not THE major, souorce of pollution worldwide, and does kill people and shorten lifespans jsut like chemtrails are supposed to....



posted on Oct, 9 2011 @ 05:28 PM
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Chemtrailers miss a lot of points.Reality and cogent thought among others. They also seem to miss their meds .


edit on 10/9/11 by scooterstrats because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 9 2011 @ 05:30 PM
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While it might not be 100% on, theres absolute evidence that its a really possible idea to help stabalize atmospheric conditions.

This isnt exactly chem trails like we know but its pretty darned close! link



posted on Oct, 9 2011 @ 05:40 PM
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On the point about no historical evidence of Contrails Pre 1990ish. Here's a picture from North Carolina Circa 1978.



Looks to me like a persistent Contrail.

Cheers
edit on 9-10-2011 by myselfaswell because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 9 2011 @ 05:47 PM
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reply to post by Biigs
 


Yes, but....that recent Scientific American article about U.K. geo-engineering tests is about...well, tests.

Included are the over-all concepts too, that might need to be implemented. If and when the situation seems to call for it, which means, only if conditions become so dire that there is no alternative but to experiment on our own atmosphere.

Otherwise, as things look now, I see no need for any intervention. Yet.



posted on Oct, 9 2011 @ 05:55 PM
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reply to post by myselfaswell
 


There is a famous work of art that represents the Battle of Britain by depicting not the aircraft themselves, but the contrails in the skies from the fighter and bomber formations over London in 1940, it was painted contemporaneously and several photographs also exist from the time, upon which the painting may even be based.




posted on Oct, 9 2011 @ 06:25 PM
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reply to post by waynos
 


I just want to say 'thank you'.
Thank You!

Time and again I drive myself crazy with ranty desire over the drizzling rain of ignorant Chicken Littleisms that run wildly rampant.
Too often I want to suggest these grab some tinfoil, make a hat, call it a day, and most of all, shut up.
Unfortunately, no matter what's said, Chicken Littliesm is self reinforcing where any evidence presented against it is termed as further evidence FOR it since evidence against it supports notions of disinformation, mind control, and any other paranoid fantasies built into the structure of Chiken Littleism.

The sky is falling, chem trails are poisoning us, and the draconis reptilians are our slave masters putting flouride in our water. Yeah. There's no point arguing. Anything said against their claims, and you're only helping to enable their delusions.



posted on Oct, 9 2011 @ 06:37 PM
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But...But...But... We're insane ...and we must be listened to because we're legitimate because....because we're insane because common sense has proven us wrong which can only mean....we're insane and any commonly accepted logic that the sane world may present to refute our delusions only goes to show that...we're insane...we're insane...Logic is wrong !....Science is wrong.... contrails don't exist...jet airplanes don't exist..... we're insane and you can't argue with that....



posted on Oct, 9 2011 @ 07:02 PM
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reply to post by waynos
 


Giggle.....

Can I throwz thiz in too??

You didn't mention HAARP. It (sadly) gets mixed into the mess on occasion.

From earthquakes, to "chem"trails somehow being used to "steer" (
), etc. Combinations of outright woo-woo, probably begun as a joke that someone didn't realize was meant as sarcasm, but took seriously. Then, it's off to the races with the urban legends, taking on lives of their own.....



posted on Oct, 9 2011 @ 10:01 PM
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reply to post by waynos
 
OK..with all due respect, I disagree with what you are saying. The airliners and other aircraft (yes, there is more than one type of aircraft deployed in this operation) that I am seeing are NOT civilian - well, at least the various software programs like PlaneFinder don't identify them as such. Also, after a few hours of heavy spraying at night, one particular aircraft will fly over and take IR images of the grid that has been laid. I know this because I see it - I have night vision equipment. What's very strange about these trails is they are very bright under IR - certainly much more so than any legitimate contrail... This would go along with the purplish color they seem to emit around sunset...
When the fibers started appearing coming out of my skin - apparently ALIVE - I started doing some research. The first thing I did was what most people would do..I went to see my doctor.. He barely glanced at my arm, focusing more on the 'script pad in his hands. He wrote me for a sedative... Hmmmm.. A few days later I got my co-pay and a termination of our relationship mailed to me. So..I started pondering the "If's". IF something IS being sprayed then what goes up, must come down.... I started watching and waiting for it to rain. It seemed that after REALLY heavy spraying it rained. Sure, it could be a coincidence.. I don't know. What I DO know is what I have collected in my rain is identical to the fibers and other stuff I have collected from my body. What does that mean? You tell me.
I am not a tin-foil hat wearing nutjob. I am a fifty-something business owner with a very high IQ, a quickly failing mind AND body, and a health issue the so-called health professionals are calling DELUSIONAL... Something doesn't add up... This ain't right. I always considered the notion that when it's my time, it's my time... but I suspected it would be in a formula car, or on a sportbike because some texting kid blew a red light, but to die from what seems to be some man-made bio-weapon being sprayed on a seemingly non-interested citizenry is just wrong.....
,I guess what I want you to know is this stuff IS real, it is affecting people - most don't even suspect it..they think that that sudden need to go up a few powers on their reading glasses is just "getting old"..or the fact that they can't recall simple things anymore - that's also just "getting old"... IT MAY NOT BE.

thanks for allowing me to type this-



posted on Oct, 9 2011 @ 11:20 PM
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Originally posted by Terracer
reply to post by waynos
 


OK...this is not addressed to me, but I can field some of that wall of text.....let's get started:


The airliners and other aircraft (yes, there is more than one type of aircraft deployed in this operation) that I am seeing are NOT civilian - well, at least the various software programs like PlaneFinder don't identify them as such.


Well firstly, when you wish to identify the actual airplanes, your results will only be as good as the tools you are using. Having never heard of "PlaneFinder" (I've researched many other sites, in attempts to educate people), I looked it up:

planefinder.net...

Interesting, since it seems to have a "world view", at first glance. However, it seems to pale in comparison to many other sites....for instance, let's look at just the Contiguous USA:

Flight Aware

Far, far better (in my estimation) and, once you get accustomed to its features, you will see why.

Also, in no particular order:

Flight Radar24

And,
Radar Virtuel

...just to name two others. Feel free to use Google, and input "live flight tracker" to search. You may add quantifiers....such as "live flight tracker europe free" (which brings up "radarvirtuel"). Try other variations, for yourspecific region of the World.


Now, I find this particularly interesting:


.....one particular aircraft will fly over and take IR images of the grid that has been laid. I know this because I see it - I have night vision equipment.


Ermmm.....I believe there are plenty of individuals here on ATS who are well experienced with IR equipment. Sure you wish to assert this claim?



This would go along with the purplish color they seem to emit around sunset...


"purplish"? Or is it more "reddish"? Compare to what you already know are clouds (Hint: contrails are just a type of cloud...BTW) that you've seen at sunset...or, sunrise, for that matter. Similar lighting conditions, either way.



When the fibers started appearing coming out of my skin - apparently ALIVE - I started doing some research.


OK.....now, I see an agenda and it is not directed toward any "revelations of truth".....because, well.....anyone can Google "Morgellons" for themselves.


I see the rest of the diatribe as part of the "Morgellons" agenda, sorry.

Inferring that the "entire medical profession" is somehow involved in a "massive cover-up".

There are some indications that what has been called "Morgellons" is a version of an auto-immune ailment. In fact, research shows similar symptoms reported in the 1700s and 1800s....well before airplanes were invented.

What is Morgellons Disease?

Another doctor seems to think it is some sort of hair follicle infection, of unknown origin. But, this would hardly implicate any sort of "spraying" by airplanes, since.....well, to be blunt.....Morgellons is very, very rare.

CDC, from 2009

I put that above in, because it's from 2009....only two years ago.

In the "chemtrail" craze, the general paranoid claims are that "chemtrails" began in the mid-1990s. Yet, Morgollens cases are still few and far between.

It is far, far more likely that anyone who has this condition is due to some other factor, possible environmental, no one knows. It isbeyond irresponsible to immediately blame commercial airliners, however, when there are so many, many ground-based sources of horrible pollutants present, in just about any country in the World.



posted on Oct, 10 2011 @ 04:34 AM
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Terracer, you are perfectly entitled to disagree with me, I would be pretty naive if I didn't expect disagreement from other members.

But I don't see anything in your post that would have led me to the same conclusion that you have drawn. Just as an example, I am sure you are aware that a spraying aircraft would cover a huge area, but how many people within, say 200 square miles of where you live (or as far away as you like) are also suffering from your condition? And what percentage of the total population of that chosen area do they represent?

It's a very poor operation if that figure comes to anything less than 80% after 20 plus years of continuous spraying, and I suspect the figure would be waay less. Less than 1% even? Or are they doing it all just to get you?

This morgellons disease is completely new to me, thanks to proud bird for the links, but surely the Chemtrailers would have been all over this if widespread populations were breaking out with it, and under those circumstances it would be worth investigating. But it's not like that at all.

If you are suffering from such a condition, I have to say you appear to have grasped the least likely cause of all to blame, in my opinion of course. Which is exactly where this thread began, whle you are attributing this to chemtrails, the potential real, and much closer to home, cause passes unnoticed.


edit on 10-10-2011 by waynos because: (no reason given)

edit on 10-10-2011 by waynos because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 20 2011 @ 03:11 AM
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Waynos,

Well put my boy well put. (That was for that clown in the other thread who was too young and ignorant to realise that calling someone "boy" is not necessarily a derogatory reflection upon either them or their age. He probably should read a good book instead of facebook). Saying the broad chemtrail threads are basically rubbish does not per say right off the concept as weather manipulation and even far out military ideas for spraying everything from VX gas to '___' to have some effect has been discussed and even patented openly, that doesn't mean chemtrails are being produced any more than the zillions of patents people try and occasionally do lodge for free energy or perpetual motion engines, and as far as I know nobody has pulled off any of those yet. But to make baseless claims and then refute through ignorance countless people with more expertise and understanding in their index finger than the claimants possess in their entire being shows up both their ignorance and their skewed arrogance. Calling somebody with an aerospace background who has shown one of his own aircraft that was claimed to be spraying as completely concocted B*ll Sh*t as somehow mentally disturbed really doesn't endow the chemtrailers with any credibility, then again they rarely deserve any.

One thing, can you point me in the direction of the thread or claimant who believes that a spare or Fifth engine is being used to spray? I have a feeling Im going to have fun ripping apart that one.

LEE.
edit on 20-10-2011 by thebozeian because: because spell checker doesn't always pick up my failings!

edit on 20-10-2011 by thebozeian because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 20 2011 @ 04:00 AM
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reply to post by thebozeian
 


Hi Lee,

Here you go,
www.abovetopsecret.com...

It begins at post number 7 where Pervius has a Hans Andersen moment when explaining what the third engine on a DC-10 is needed for


It was the sheer stupidity of that claim, and way such idiocy actually serves to undermine any genuine concern there might be, that led me to commit my thoughts into this thread
edit on 20-10-2011 by waynos because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 22 2011 @ 07:36 AM
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When I was travelling to work yesterday the sky was lovely and clear, so clear that I could actually see all the air traffic that is normally hidden.

Lots of aircraft leaving trails, some disappearing within seconds, some lingering until well after the plane had completely disappeared, many crossing each others paths.

This is it, I thought. These are exactly the conditions in which people become fixated with the idea of spraying and that something is amiss with commercial air traffic.

I made a conscious effort to see the other side of the argument, looking for the unexplainable mystery that so many are seeing.

I regret to report that in the end the only way I could do this was to reject what I knew to be correct about civil aviation and meteorology and approach it from position of ignorance. Then I could see the point, and imagine that the lingering trails were different or that those crossing paths were the same plane coming back around from another direction etc etc, but as soon as any actual knowledge was applied the whole edifice tumbled down.

This completely personal and unscientific experiment gave me a glimpse, I believe, of the mindset of many pro chemmies and told me why all the explanations and valid sources in the world that anyone posts on these threads are a total waste of time and effort.

C'est La vie and Kind regards to all.



posted on Oct, 22 2011 @ 10:48 AM
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reading that back it looks a bit mardy and like a resignation letter. Rest assured I wasn't thinking like that at all but the time to edit has now passed.

The end should had read along the lines that it gave me an insight into those who will not accept any evidence, there have of course been plenty of people on here who are not closed minded at all.



posted on Oct, 29 2011 @ 05:13 AM
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reply to post by waynos
 


Hi Waynos.

It's funny that you should have tried to look at this from the other side as in the past seven days I have had the opportunity of flying and observing the contrail phenomena. I just returned this afternoon from a week in Fiji and was lucky (or unlucky) to be stuck on the outbound flight in seat 65K on an Air Pacific 747-400 (CF-6 powered), an aircraft type I am very familiar with. It was an early/mid afternoon flight out of Sydney and therefore heading NNE at approximately FL360. I was actually able to observe the formation of contrails and had a reasonable view of there propagation and point of origin. There is no doubt that they were being formed about 30-40 feet directly behind engines 3 and 4. They were not being formed by fuel dump pipes, secret tanks inside flap canoe fairings or hollowed out static wicks or anything else, just plain old engine exhaust. I saw the same thing this afternoon on my return flight so it wasn't just a once off. (I also observed another unrelated phenomena but will post a separate thread on this somewhere else when I have some time). I even managed to take some footage on my new iphone but despite the high res capability it doesn't turn out very well so I dont think there will be much point in trying to post it. Besides, buggered if I can work out how to do it anyway!

Whats funny is that as I was witnessing this I immediately thought of this thread and realised it would be a great personal observation and finally locked in my mind that it really is just a smoke and mirrors urban myth. I only wish some of the hard core chemmies could have seen it and pointed out to them the point of origin. So in a way at almost the same time you and I have looked at the same thing from an angle neither of us has observed at the directly opposite ends of the conundrum. Very serendipitous isn't it?

LEE.


edit on 29-10-2011 by thebozeian because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 29 2011 @ 10:48 AM
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Very true Lee, thats great. Thanks for sharing
if only I could get such a close up view myself

edit on 29-10-2011 by waynos because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 31 2011 @ 01:55 PM
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reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul
 
...I am new here...but this topic is not a conspiracy ..this word is applied to actions that are not visible
, that one would guess at ..subjective action...

You see I am older and have watched many planes they never made clouds or altered weather...for example the east coast had a storm called Irene..as Irene entered the upstate NY area it was breaking up ..then I witnessed the planes stitching up the sky where the sun had started to eat away the storm...it proves that this is not in our best interest...you did not see it?? well I never lie...some are saying this is to slow or stop this high energy that is coming from the galactic center..and yes this has happened before...this energy is like DNA ..it is here for a purpose ...this is to aid us ..to help us survive the changes that are happening to the galaxy ...these electrons are very attractive to those who desire the ultimate power....to harness this is to harness god...they must be forced to stop applying chemicals to the atmosphere...the meek shall inherit the earth...not those who have plundered her...as she is a part of an interconnected living breathing pulsating universe...alive with electricity ..

edit on 31-10-2011 by rachel56 because: no name



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