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1- This thread assumes that all religions known to man are made by and only by man. Any arguments from any religious perspectives will be politely ignored.
"It's possible that what are now correlations could at some point become causal connections between brain mechanisms".
This month, a raft of projects will get under way as part of Big Questions in Free Will, a four-year, US$4.4-million programme funded by the John Templeton Foundation in West Conshohocken, Pennsylvania, which supports research bridging theology, philosophy and natural science. Some say that, with refined experiments, neuroscience could help researchers to identify the physical processes underlying conscious intention and to better understand the brain activity that precedes it.
Originally posted by TheAlmo
reply to post by Dragonfly79
I really can't relate the upper half of your comment to any of what I said in the OP. What do you want to say?
The second half:
"The laws of physics do not have to be the same as the laws of the psyche"
The psyche is itself nothing but electrical signals and chemical reactions as far as we're concerned.
Right... except that it is because that's my example and I said that it would be delicious, be it Arab food, American food, or anything. Delicious food is delicious because you were raised to like its taste... there's a reason for you loving the taste of delicious food... a scientific deterministic reason that can be traced back to your ancestors, evolution, and eventually cosmological reasons. Which you have no control or choice of neither of them.
I can't see how you got the 'culty' smell since all I am saying here is based on facts...
but I will explain what I mean. If you're walking in the street the pavement was broken and you hit it with your leg and fell down. What's gonna happen the next time you come near that very spot? You will try to avoid it because what is equivalent to an operating system in your brain updated the information about this specific spot. That's what I mean by automatically updatable.
Predicting our brain behaviour is like predicting the weather
a butterfly in one spot can influence weather far away
Robots do not pick up brushes to paint their surroundings, unless they are programmed to do so. Howcome humans started to paint, it wasn't there in their programming but somehow they started to do that. Just as they started doing many other things which can't be explained unless there is something that can combine things to create something which is new to itself. Otherwise we would still only be using sticks and stones, not more than what nature produced like caves, but not houses like we know now.
There is no 'we', is there? It's a tactic used by cult leaders, don't speak as one person but pretend you're with a group. I understand many people speak like that nowadays which I consider a problem but obviously others don't seem to care.
What I meant was what if you sat there on the couch and your spouse made food which smelled great like frenchfries but then turned out to be something completely different and you lose all taste because of it. There's no difference between a Chinese or American brain, just looking at the physiology, but it's likely both respond differently to different dishes. Not to start a nature vs nurture debate but I would say there's something wrong here since all brains have the same physiology but there's something in there with a taste and distaste.
They are based on (very convincing) theories, not facts. As you stated yourself, subject to change. It's just not the truth.
Testimonies, they are evidence too, accepted in court of law.
A lot of people have experienced out of body experiences
The body is the vehicle but it is the soul that commands.
Life comes from the soul.
then our actions and words are expressions of free will.
Originally posted by TheAlmo
reply to post by Dragonfly79
This argument, the way I see it, tries to prove that we have a creator/designer; which is not the our topic.
Yes there is a "we" and it refers to humanity.
"we invented the computer" and "we live in 2011"... and what I said which is: we -humanity- can only see electrical signals and chemical reactions in the brain. That's what we can find and see and experiment with. There could be more, yes, but that's ALL we can see now, which is also all I need for my argument.
It doesn't matter.
no... you see, my theory, is based on facts.
Cause and Effect
A leaf detaches from high up in a tree and gently floats to the ground. As you watch it meander lazily downwards, its path seems random and aimless, as though whim and fancy were dictating its every move. Yet nothing could be further from the truth. For when you examine the matter more closely, you begin to see that every aspect of the leaf's descent is determined by innumerable causes. Whim and fancy never enter the picture at all. The structure, mass and aerodynamic properties of the leaf; the height of the tree; the surrounding air temperature, humidity and pressure; the presence of a breeze; the strength of the earth's gravity; the friction between the leaf's surface and the air molecules - all of these elements, and more, combine to determine the leafs precise path. There is not a single aspect of its journey, no matter how insignificant or minute, which is not fully determined by its causes.
The same is true for the leafs prior growth on the branch, and for the tree that originally grew out of the ground, and for the creation of the ground itself. Indeed, it is true for everything that happens in the Universe.
All phenomena, without exception, are created, nurtured and destroyed by causation. Everything from the formation of stars and galaxies to the creation and annihilation of subatomic particles to the endless variety of living processes is a product of cause and effect. The infinite complexity of Nature that we see around us is nothing other than the infinite simplicity of causation.
There are no exceptions in this regard, despite what modern physicists say. Nothing is so unique in this world, or so unnatural, that it dwells outside of Nature's causal web. Anything that happens in this world is caused to happen, including everything that happens inside us. The blood coursing through our veins, our muscles expanding and contracting, the chemical processes inside our cells, the electro-chemical impulses in our brains - all are causally created. So too our thoughts, beliefs, decisions, and emotions. Nothing is immune from it.
Where do we begin and end?
It is often assumed that our skin forms a boundary between what is inside our bodies and the rest of the Universe. But as far as causation is concerned, it is as though this boundary does not even exist. The air that we exhale from our lungs easily finds its way into the cells of trees and plants. Our voice slides effortlessly from our larynx into the ears of those around us. The heat inside our bodies increases the surrounding air temperature to a small degree. The viruses in our sneezes create infections in the bodies of others. The decisions formulating in our brains influence the behaviour of others and exert ever-widening consequences in society. All of these examples demonstrate the obvious truth that the boundary between the world and ourselves is non-existent. The causal processes inside our bodies merge seamlessly with the causal processes in the outer environment to form one vast sea of causation. In a very real sense, "we" are not even there.
The same is true for every kind of boundary you care to imagine. None of it is real in the face of causation. If you want to open your mind to the majesty of the Infinite, then you need to understand this point thoroughly. Study it as though your life depended upon it - which, in a deeper sense, it does. Give yourself over to it, absorb your whole consciousness in it, allow it to permanently alter your mind. It is literally the key to the Kingdom of Heaven. Don't throw it away!