Are these chemtrials or contrails?

I don't understand this whole "chem-trail" thing.

When water vapor (which is about 99 percent of the exhaust) exits from the engine at typical contrail altitudes (30,000 to 38,000 feet) since it's very cold, it immediately flashes into ice crystals and so you have a little skinny ice-crystal cloud (which, by the way, is what a cirrus cloud is).

If the temperature is above minus 40 degrees and/or the atmosphere is not saturated, the ice crystals will sublime (go back to vapor without going through a liquid phase, just like dry ice does) within a minute or so. These are non-persistent contrails.

If, on the other hand, the temperature is below minus forty degrees and the atmosphere is saturated (RH=100%), then the contrail will not sublime but will stay around, just like a cirrus cloud in a similar environment does. These are persistent contrails.

Indeed, with persistent contrails, the atmospheric conditions are such that the existing contrail will act as a "seed" and will spread as the adjacent water molecules (remember, the RH is 100% and the temperature is below minus forty degrees) will solidify into ice, which is why often you will see persistent contrails spread out into cirrus clouds.

Sometimes the aircraft will pass through a patch of sky where the temperature is just a little bit higher than minus forty, or the RH is just a little bit less than 100%. In that area, the ice in the contrail will sublime rapidly, leaving the observer with those "dashed" contrails.


[edit on 11-9-2004 by Off_The_Street]

It sounds to me like you understand it just fine.

I dont want to come accross as bashing anyone or anything, but I think people are insane to believe the whole chemtrail thing.

#1 why would the us govt want to use chem trails on their own country? to brainwash them into doing as they say or something

#2 where do the pilots, the people in charge, and all the support personel involved in the so called chemtrail project live so that they, and their families aren't exposed to the chemicals??????

If they are chemtrails maybe they are exercises in weather control or some sort of radar protection screen, or something for military or environmental protection and have nothing to do with brainwashing or genocide. In that case there would be no need for the pilots and their families to hide right?

Badkitty says:

"If they are chemtrails maybe they are exercises in weather control or some sort of radar protection screen, or something for military or environmental protection and have nothing to do with brainwashing or genocide. In that case there would be no need for the pilots and their families to hide right?"

True. But that also means that there'd be nothing for the government to hide, either.

You say that maybe they are this or that or the other.

Okay. Maybe they are.

I can't say that they might not be those things, any more than I can prove the there really are not chemtrails.

Just like you can't prove I'm not the Long-Lost King of France, or that the mushrooms in my front lawn are not put there by the Little Fairies of the Moonlight.

But just because you can't prove they're not that's certainly not evidence that they are, right? Do you have any evidence that I really am the Long-Lost King of France? Hardly!

I have heard a lot of chemtrail arguments, but they all seem to boil down to "Well, you can't prove there aren't any such thing, can you?" -- and, of course, I can't.

But every agument I've heard used as evidence for chemtrails can be explained better and simpler by just looking at perfectly normal atmospheric conditions, like what I'd mentioned earlier about "dashed" contrails.

I mean, if you believe that, then how do you explain the "dashes"? Is it that the "Chemtraileers" are turning the chemtrails on and off just to amuse themselves?


[edit on 10-9-2004 by Off_The_Street]

yep those look like contrails to me, that and some clouds...

TextFirst of all just the facts. For 3-years I have witnessed hundreds times many Chemtrails be it cold, hot in-between, rainy sunny (in Morning), all weather conditions. Chemtrails are real and in each above weather condition I have also witnessed Fed-Ex, Southwest etc. flying at shared altitudes with the KC-135's among others and low and behold the Fed-Ex and other commercial carriers leave normal dissapaiting CONTRAILS right next to the Long Lasting ,Spreading, Obvious to anything that breathes CHEMTRAILS. Fancy that... scores of test conditions with a known constant. So if you can turn on your computer then you choose to believe it or not. But Chemtrails are facts. Some just aren't ready to except the fact that we live on a wing and a prayer. Reality is ready, or go for that safe for now pile of sand head first.

So, how do you know which planes are Fex-Ex and which are not? How do you know what altitudes they are flying at?

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You know it’s a Chemtrail if both planes are flying right next to each other at the same altitude in the same weather conditions; if you look closely they seem to be the exact same type of plane too.

It annoys me so much every time I read about how Chemtrails don’t exist when every other day the sky above my house in New Jersey is filled with linear patterns that eventuality form into clouds. I don’t confuse Contrails and Chemtrails when I have seen both being formed at the same time. Just yesterday there was a large white cargo jet flying illegally low, making rounds across the sky.

I bet none of you have ever seen two Chemtrails being formed by two jets flying right next to each other in formation with a normal plane forming a Contrail right BETWEEN them.


[edit on 27-1-2005 by HybridEB]

Originally posted by HybridEB

You know it’s a Chemtrail if both planes are flying right next to each other at the same altitude in the same weather conditions; if you look closely they seem to be the exact same type of plane too.
[edit on 27-1-2005 by HybridEB]

How do you know that they are at the same alltitude? You don't really. You can't even tell what kind of planes they are, let alone what altitude they are at. Not all plans are the same size. Some comercial jets are twice as big as others. It is physically impossible to tell the exact altitude of a plane that is six miles above you in the sky. A difference of as little as 1000 feet can make a difference between a contrail that persists and one that disipates.

This is a fact, and there is nothing you can post that will ever change that.

Therefore your claim that some of the pictures above show a so called difference between contrails and "chemtrails" is just plane wrong. bad pun alert

Try again. What is the difference between a chemtrail and a contrail?

Alright, I admit that you can never be 100% percent sure about what height planes are flying at though in the image I provided the planes seem to be the same size.

Chemtrails Forming
Normal Contrail

Look, I have seen planes leave large trails behind them that just abruptly end while the plane keeps flying with no trail at all or a small Contrail. The SAME plane! You can't bring up excuses of different altitude, temperature, humidity, etc when dealing with a plane that just abruptly stops making a trail.

Sure you can. Contrails are made of the same thing clouds are made of: ice crystals. If clouds can have edges, start and stop points, why can't contrails????

Scenario: You see a plane flying above you leaving a very dense trail behind it, then, for no reason whatsoever, the trail stops yet the plane just keeps flying with no trail at all until its out of sight.

You're saying that there is nothing abnormal about that?

[edit on 27-1-2005 by HybridEB]

rebel chem trail pic!!!

yes I can tell altitude sharing. I have two pairs of binoculars, one is polorized. and you can see the Fed-Ex or southwest on them with no Problem even if you were not familiar with their paint schemes, and by looking at the "control" contrail disappating jet and then view the Chem jet without re-focusing you do not need futher explainations. Hide in the sand or whatever makes one comfortable. I have little intrest other than these happenings are fact and as one would expect have a little larger brain based information bank.

KTM:

Were you replying to my post? Cause if you were you completely ignored my question. Also, it doesn't mater what paint scheme a plane has as that has nothing to do with the trails it leaves behind.

Originally posted by HybridEB
Scenario: You see a plane flying above you leaving a very dense trail behind it, then, for no reason whatsoever, the trail stops yet the plane just keeps flying with no trail at all until its out of sight.

You're saying that there is nothing abnormal about that?

[edit on 27-1-2005 by HybridEB]

Absolutely. That is perfectly normal. The atmosphere is not homogeneous. Atmospheric conditions can vary from point to point, and the transitions between these poins can be quite abrupt. Case in point: clouds. There are numerous types of clouds that can form in the upper atmosphere. Many of these have distinct edges. These edges mark boundaries between areas with different levels of relative humidity (with respect to ice).

Another interesting phenomena.
Have you ever heard of gravity waves? No I’m not talking about theoretical physics here, but a common atmospheric phenomenon. gravity waves are often visible when the atmospheric changes that are associated with them cause band like cloud formations.

So, to answer your question one more time, yes it is perfectly normal for contrail formation to start and stop abruptly as the airplane travels though the atmosphere.

Originally posted by KTM
yes I can tell altitude sharing. I have two pairs of binoculars, one is polorized. and you can see the Fed-Ex or southwest on them with no Problem even if you were not familiar with their paint schemes, and by looking at the "control" contrail disappating jet and then view the Chem jet without re-focusing you do not need futher explainations.

You do understand, that in order to look at something six miles away with a pair of binoculars, you have to focus it to infinity? Once the binoculars are focused to infinity, everything out at that distance will be in focus even if one plane is a one or two thousand feet closer or farther than the other.

Hide in the sand or whatever makes one comfortable. I have little intrest other than these happenings are fact and as one would expect have a little larger brain based information bank.

Really? Where do you buy your hats?



[edit on 28-1-2005 by HowardRoark]

I knew that what I saw could not have been an isolated incident so I searched the internet and voila, here are some examples of what I was talking about.

The first two images clearly show a plane switch from a dense trail (Chemtrail?) to a normal Contrail for no clear reason. Sorry, it just doesn't look natural to me.