Emergency Worker Death Toll, FDNY = 121, NYPD = 0, page 1

This video nearly had me in tears.

I didn't really have much of an opinion on Mayor Gulianni. I remember seeing him on the day surrounded by the media and his political advisors near ground zero.

In the UK, there is a habit for politicians to make an appearance at the locations of disasters and tragedies in order to show they care and also to gain some public favour.

I remember originally questioning why Rumsfeld was captured on the Pentagon lawn and Gulianni made an appearance on camera near ground zero, however dismissed these questions.

Mainly because it's hard to imagine these political figureheads would use the events of this day for their own personal gains, also because they made their appearances as the events were unfolding.

My heart goes out to the relatives of all that died, but more so for those related to the firefighters that didn't need to have died on that day.



So once they retrieved what they wanted from the rubble they callously discarded the rest of the remains.

Try to imagine what it feels like to know that a lump of metal is more valuable than the remains of your wife or husband, son or daughter, mother or father.

I can't. Every time I try, my eyes start watering.

Do they understand that he's a puppet? A politician? He represents modern politicians saving face.

Also, they've had bad radio's since the 1993 World Trade Tower Bombing, why didnt they do something after this. This is also something that their Union had pleanty of time to address, over a decade. 10 years, if it was that necessary they should have called a strike.

NYFD Union

I think they're just pointing their hate toward him. It always comes down to personal responsibility, ask any military personal, when their life is on the line they buy their own equiptment. I know pleanty.

Also many areas around the US have outdated equiptment. It's Something the LAPD found out when the Hollywood Shooting happened.

BTW not a Guiliani Fan, just know pleanty of Union folk. If they cant do their job, they strike, until working conditions improve, and their contract necessities are met.

Fox

reply to post by FoxStriker

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I'm sorry, but there is a distance the size of the grand canyon between "saving face" and using the tragic events of that day to further your own political career.

Saving face, would be accepting even the smallest ammount of responsability for the security failures that day.
Saving face, would be getting shoulder deep in the rubble pile, searching for remains of those lost.
Saving face, would be allowing firefighters the right to protest and listening to thier views and concerns.
Saving face, would be ensuring all the first responders on the pile recieved free health care for the rest of their lives, as the majority to this day are suffering a number of health complaints that can be attributed to working on the remains.

I too have shedloads of union experience and know that if the equipment provided works in a fashion, then this is deemed as acceptable until a significant percentage of the union collaberates towards a unified descision that the equipment provided is unsuitable for purpose.

I'm not related to anyone who died that day, however if I was, I'd find your lack of compassion boardering on the offensive.

reply to post by SeleneLux

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reply to post by skunkmunky

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Lack of Compassion? So because I dare ask the question, why did they not strike? I am being offensive? Because I say Guiliani is not the only one to blame? Because I asked why didn't their Union strike? I also never once stated I was anti-Union. Some of you guys are worst than Tea Party Followers.

Back to the questions at hand,

So your life could be at risk without proper equiptment, No unions that I know of that work in or on dangerous fields goes out to work without equiptment that would be considered essential to your life.

I also researched this article and this issue unlike you quick nay sayers, the person who bought the radios WORKS FOR THE NYFD, He/She has to test the equiptment before any are purchased and given to firefighters in order for on duty firefighters to field test them.

Here's a quote just so you understand the whole story from an article i researched that also includes the video mentioned in the thread.

Fire Fighters for 9/11 Truth

“We should not have New York City firefighters out in dangerous life-threatening situations with faulty or untested equipment,” said Mr. Gallagher, whose union represents the city’s 8,000 firefighters.”

“Let’s put blame where it belongs, starting with an outside investigation into who in *the Fire Department* ordered or authorized the purchase of these radios and who made the decision to put them into the field without a proper evaluation of this essential life-saving equipment,” he said

If you read the quote above the NYFD Union Representative Kevin Gallagher was asking for an investigation regarding who ordered or authorized the radios within "THE FIRE DEPARTMENT".

Now remember he's asking for an investigation within his Department.

Am I saying that Guiliani is innocent, NO. Was he aware, I have no doubt he was. But He as well as who ever purchased the radios within the NYFD are just as guilty. Hence if this was an issue within the NYFD the Union should have ordered a strike. I think that is why they didn't, because it was an issue within their own department.

“Thus, despite its acknowledgment two years earlier that several manufacturers were developing technology that might meet FDNY’s CAI specifications, and in apparent disregard of its pledge to evaluate new technologies and products, the FDNY appears to have elected to accept a radio representing an entirely new communications technology from Motorola rather than conduct a competitive review of products and prices.”

“The FDNY has stated that its Rescue 2 unit tested the radios from July 23, 1999, to August 1, 1999. However, although the Rescue 2 unit tested an analog, VHF model of the XTS3500R, the FDNY purchased a digital, UHF model. Thus, the Rescue 2 unit never tested the radios or technology subsequently purchased by FDNY.”

Also they knowingly made mistakes and had 2 years to correct them yet they didn't.

So according to this, The NYFD tested the radios "They Tested the radios", but decided to purchase other ones they did not test? Remember this is the NYFD. Not Guliani. So this begs the question. What factors led to the death of so many fire fighters during the events of 9/11?

“But the release of the tapes Wednesday reinforced what earlier tapes, investigations and a new book — “Grand Illusion: The Untold Story of Rudy Giuliani and 9/11″ — have made clear: that Giuliani and his top aides did not put in place a clear chain of command for police officers and firefighters, which led to much confusion at the scene. And firefighters never heard calls to leave because they carried outmoded radios that did not work inside the stairwells of the burning towers.”

Now what is being argued is the fact that Giuliani did not have in place a chain of command. That is what he is being blamed for. Do I think he knew about the radios as well, probably. But the questions still stands, Was it all his fault?

Anyways, Hope this clears my stance on this thread. So please save your comments until you yourself do researched beyond a biased YouTube video. Yes it is biased. I don't see them scorning their own Fire Department that shares the fault for purchasing improper equiptment, not testing them properly and also not addressing the issue in time.

I understand how much the NYFD and NYPD sacrificed and my heart goes out to the people lost that day and for the families they left behind. But I just wont take a position without knowing all the facts first. And if anything this leaves me with more questions than answers.

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