Avatar: The Heart of the World.. Are "Godmen" among us?

I am beginning to discover that there are certain people who, at any given time, embody the knowledge of God as the loving heart of the world.

Jesus obviously comes immediately to mind, as would Krishna, or Buddha.

Through my "investigations", I have come across a man who went by the name of Meher Baba. In him, I recognize the heart of the world or world avatar, but I have no need to "follow him" or worship him, being already a Christian mystic. In other words, the heart of the world as the spirit of truth and love, is already accessible to me through my gnosis of the truth of the love of God in the person of Jesus. That's just simply what works for me.

But I know that people are always seeking someone (and that for many, becauise of "Churchianity" they just can't allow themselves to make of Jesus the ideal model of human perfection and God realization), someone to "go to" or to examine for this unique and special quality of being a "Godman", and so therefore, it is on this basis that I draw your attention to this particular individual, not to draw attention away from anyone or anything else, since there is but one God of love to begin with as the condition of an eternal truth and reality on the other side of all our illusion and delusion, but as an example of what many consider the "Avatar of the Age" for your scrutiny and analysis, maybe even, who knows, for your own eventual Godrealization!

Interestingly, this too is Baba's message, who in referring to himself, is imo, referring to this same truth and reality with whom he came to identify, not unlike Jesus Christ and others, although true and authentic ones are surely very rare and far and few between (or maybe not..?)

Here in the West, the "faith" based talk almost all seems to be that which is talked about by "men of God", who talk ABOUT God in terms of being a separate entity, a "skyGod" if you will, forever above us, however loving such a God might be, but more like the God of the OT, than the personal one of the NT.

In the East, there is of course Buddhism, which does not speak of any such being, but which at the same time, does not acknowledge the "personhood" of God realization. There is no unique, particular human being, except Buddha I guess, as the realization, that ah, no one is "anyone" in particular. It's a not nothing which is nothing special or an "unexcelled enlightenment" (Buddha's own description for "it"), which to me sounds like nothing but a good starting point maybe, since there is always SOMEHTING to do, and some desire and in fact a continual flow of desire motivating the human heart, to create, nurture, and grow.

In India, there are of course as many so-called enlightened "Godmen" as theie are individual Gods.

However, from time to time, an authentic person appears through whom "God" seem to become much more transparent in their person and their character. Meher Baba is, I have become convinced, personally, one of those unique people.

Who was(is) Meher Baba?

en.wikipedia.org... (Google for more on him)

A couple of videos




What do you think of this guy?

And are there any which you are certain about, that you think of as a boni fide "Avatar" of the age, aside from Jesus Christ who's life and death we count our calendar by (and who I very much believe in and love myself).

And do you think there are any "Godmen" among us?

I've heard that by one tradition, it is believed that there are ALWAYS at least FIVE at any given time, living. I sure hope so, because these days, we can certainly use as many Godmen as is humanly possible!

Personally, I think the "Heart of the World" is beginning to incarnate within and among us, ever more, as our individual and collective suffering leads to conscious suffering, leads to eventual God realization, as the end of suffering (of the existential variety) and the end of evil, as a world passing away. At the same time, however, I do not believe, as Jesus himself stated, that anyone will be able to point in any particular direction and say "there he is!" or "here he comes", or "I am he".

At best I think it's a "we" thing now, from here on in, and these people, in ancient times called "Prophets", they've always been imo, like a remnant, or a "last resort", stalwarts of great courage, wisdom and understanding,, who's continual presence in the world, keeps the principal alive, even if at times, it may seem like a candle fluttering rather precariously, and dangerously close to being snuffed out, in the wind of chaos and confusion, ignorance, and all manner of stupidity and every other absurd nonsense which is simply unworkable.

Best Regards,

NAM

It's just people trying to find meaning and purpose in a life that has none aside from biological purpose (survival, genetic propagation)

reply to post by Somehumanbeing


Nothing but "meaning making machines", I'm familiar with that argument. A "Godman" by the name of George Ivanovich Gurdjieff talks all about it.

www.gurdjieff.org...

My only quesiton is - how do you reconcile that POV with the unique qualia of your own experience. Is there nothing deeper than this superficial interpretation based on the subjective surface experience of the sensory imput of the five senses? Are we nothing but "things" however complex?

Question:
The Hindu's have something called "Brahmavidya" or "The Supreme Science" of Yogic Meditation and inward contemplation, which they practised for 1000's of years - were their pronouncements just the deluded ramblings of confused "meaning making machines"?

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I think that you are right. There are very few people that can look outside the box and see what really is for what it is. Thank you for this insight.

Were it not for people such as this, the world would have been robbed of it's greatest treasures. I thoroughly enjoyed the videos as this is my first experience with this man. Love radiates from his face, and he cannot hide it. Thank you for posting...

reply to post by visualmiscreant

You're most welcome. My pleasure!

reply to post by NewAgeMan


What about Osiris? Please don't forget about him. He was very similar to Jesus and predates him.


There are stories written by Greek writers who say that Osiris led a group of chosen people out of Ethiopia, as a colony to start the Ancient Egyptian civilization. Maybe Osiris was actually a real person who achieved Godhood. Similar to Imhotep who achieved that same divine status.

Vidoes

www.youtube.com...

I find the "Infinite Intelligence" manuscript he dictated quite interesting.

Basically, he's saying that thinking, leads to imagination, and that imagination grows to infinity, where it must be destroyed or dissolved in Absolute Reality.

This makes sense, if we consider that all knowledge resides in the realm of an unknown unknown, whereby even what we think we know, and what we know we don't know, comprises only the most finite slice of understanding, if that!

reply to post by IEtherianSoul9

That mythology (Osiris) probably refers to a real person I think. Same thing with Krishna who led a whole kingdom as a historical figure.

My hope and prayer, is for the incarnation of a whole mountain of Bodhisatvas, and when I say "incarnation" I don't mean neccessarily in another life.

"What is born of flesh is flesh, but what is born of spirit is spirit."

Many people feel that Paramhansa Yogananda was also a true Avatar.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Each person requires a guide ('guru') to know the truth.

If you believe Meher Baba is telling you the truth, he is your 'guru'.

God has no reason to either take birth, or send a messenger to earth. God is very much capable of giving knowledge directly to any person he chooses, without any intermediary.

Only souls take birth on Earth. Enlightenment is removal of illusion from the soul, that allows a soul to see reality as it exists.

Please visit my thread "Vedic civilization..." which contains a lot of material on Vedic thought.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


A human can be a 'guru' (a guide). The correct word in Sanskrit is 'Acharya'.

An 'Acharya' is considered a 'deva', a person to be given supreme respect. The respect is given by following the education given by the 'Acharya'. The physical manifestations are 'dandavat pranam', washing feet with water etc. to show respect.

Worshipping a human ('Upasana') is strictly prohibited in Veda. Only formless God is the object of 'upasana'.

If you are meaning persons that have awoken/become enlightened then there is a lot of us right now. I know of me and one other that I have physicly met. I can see awoken artist in the song lyrics but you probably don't see it because you are not looking for it. You find All(ah) is one on the facebook from the muslims. I read books from enlightened people. I have talked to people on ATS that is definetly had Satori longer that me. And there is a lot more that if they are not awoken yeet then they will be soon. Check youtube for some more enlightened. There are people that belive we are more than a million of us and they are probably right. I don't go around telling all the people that I have an opened crown chakra and can feel energy thru it. What is the point? You would not belive us and I don't wanna end up in a straightjacket. I do what my intuition tells me to. Little random acts of kindness and channeling energy thru my body all day. When I told a friend that I had been thru something that gave me proof that there is something more he asked me if I thought I was Jesus . Im am definetly not Jesus and would never wanna be him. I love being me and would not give it up for anything. Just so you know it some of the crazy people in your mental hospitals are enlightened too but they where not able to stay in a reality that is close to the one we others share. Or choose not to be in a reality that is close to us. We all create our own reality. The funny thing of enlightment is that you understand that what you belive to be true reality is probably false. It does not matter. You don't have to be right. Go with the instinct that god have given you. Or as I call it The One that is All. Thank you all for being a part of god and living at this time. Namaste

How to recognize a true Yogi / Acharya

The most difficult aspect of finding a true guide is to recognize him. I am giving the following pointers to help you:

1. Gives preach openly and publicly. Will never invite you privately into a room alone, specially if you are a woman.

2. Will always ask you to be properly dressed - full clothing for both man and woman.

3. Will not seek donations to his charity. Donation is very important, but is given by seeker of his own free will.

4. Will not engage in dance and music to entice you. (Bhajans are sung in praise of God without dance)

5. Will not engage in magic to impress you.

6. Will always tell that virtue is created slowly by effort. There is no quick transformation of man.

7. Will not engage in favouritism.

8. Will not change his preach ever.

9. Will live modestly. Will ask his disciples to live modestly.

10. Will say that karmas of disciple will be removed by disciple's OWN effort.

Any person who says that he is capable of removing other person's karma is a FRAUD.

OP, thank you for the videos. I now have another enlighted person to add to my playlist.

I enjoy J Khrisnamurti and Prabhupada along with Manley P Hall to teach words of wisdom.

Namaste

I cannot watch the videos, unfortunately, but I am soothed very much by what you have to say by the hope and love it represents when I see so little of that, and it's one of main reasons I read what is expressed on this site. I find great communion with the principles of Gnosticism, myself, and in answer to your primary questions, I hope there are many such around and within us. For I think for the vision of what you and I, and many others, see and still hope for, that falling away of evil and the path of usery of the best of us, but instead glorification of the best in us to make the best of what we can be, our future and a new environment or world, that it will take many such as you describe, each able to reach and resonate within the many of us and our divergent personalities, experiences, able to soothe our many pains and points of views and djssatisfactions, which will of course be the pressure that necessitates the coming together for the "falling away" to happen.

There is much talk of our "oneness.". I do not mean to demean the concept of unity, but at what price? Must we all be the same to have peace and appreciation for one another? I am a believer in equal value, but this does not mean to me sameness, nor lack of individuality, for I think this denigrates the struggle and different place that each of us come from, though we are no less valuable. That being the case, it will take different, but no
less sacred and meaningful examples of "god men" and women, to bring us all to a place of agreement in times where there is so little agreement. In our history, unity has usually meant at the expense of an identified blame, a target to be pointed at for equal derision and hatred......take Nazi Germany and the identified culprits, the Jews. It is a challenge for our Species to get beyond the need for a targeted blame to unite against, and to unite regardless of our differences and without a target. I think this will be the mark of our maturity as a species to truly evolve and go beyond both space and time of where we are now and our own enslavement.

reply to post by apushforenlightment


I do not ask people to watch youtube, and do not like being asked as well.

You believe you are 'enlightened'. I shall not argue with that.

Any person who is seeking 'truth' is good for humanity.

I am only pointing out the self-styled 'godman' who claim to be messengers of God.

Please share your experiences with me. I shall read what you say with interest.

Some phrases from the 2nd video..

"whether people worship me.."

That one in particular a wise one wouldn't even get near, I'm sure some would agree. What "me" is he talking about? And if he's constantly improving on his path, whatever "me" is constantly changing. A lot of that is idolatry. Muhammad comes to mind at well, saying not to worship him.

"I look forward to the love which enables the individual to obey me, so he can become me."

You can't become someone else. There's no way to know what "me" he's talking about. It's bloated and false.
"Obeying" doesn't do anything, like the Buddha said, test things out for yourself.

"a person who loves me, can move the whole world."

The problem here is similar to orthodox Christianity. They externalize it and worship the church, or in this case, externalize it and worship a person. Both tend to be mindless.

It’s hard to think with a head full of rain. They have nailed me to the cross oak and when I walk I drag it behind me. I am the electric Messiah, the
descender, locked away in this dark room, in this dark century they have maimed and imprisoned the divine king. Is it any wonder the world sickens and dies?

reply to post by tetra50


Unity in variety, and love in freedom. It canot be any other way.

That said, there is a supra-human being, as a way of being, which authentically reflects the person of the Godhead. This human being is the one who is also many.

We each of us have our own uniqyue personal spiritual experience, born out of the circumstances of our own lives.

Where we are "in one accord", is in our love, our love of God (even as an unknown unknown and therefore unknowable, except in terms of a loving relationship with love itself!), and then, by divine proportion and extension, our love for one another, whereby we may also love as we are loved by God. This is about the only thing I know, since I know there is such a thing as this loving compassion, it lives in me and I see it in others (on the other side of their insecurities if need be), and since one cannot surely reserve our love only for those who love us, that's not love at all!