.22 rifle vs shotgun for"Wilderness survival" podcast

Worthwhile interesting (audio )podcast weighing the pros and cons of he .22 rifle v the shotgun as "a wilderness survival firearm"
Any civilian "pseudo -soldiers" out there this may give you something to think about as you are toting your m-4 clone for "survival".

www.thesurvivalpodcast.com...
I tend to agree with most of his points. I have the cabinet full of choices; I have both the 870 & 10/22 mentioned:
( mine has a hogue overmold stock ;an adams&bennet .920 barrel ; volquartson target hammer;3x-9x scope) Shoots "dimes" all day with even cheap bulk ammo. and I Think the10/22 and a .45acp 1911sidearm maybe a tough combination to beat.

Or there's: my7.62x39 folding WASR and my S&W 6" model17. Either way I'm planning always carrying at least one accurate/reliable .22lr.

I'm listening now.

I would say 22 hands down., Distance, speed, And most of all can pack 1000's of rounds rather than 50 or so shot gun shells..

But an Over and under 10/22 would be the perfect woodsman rifle.

.22's ftw, great for everything but piercing armor, though a little bit of teflon on a sabot can get through on occasion

reply to post by 46ACE


What you really need is the old time "Farmers Special." It is an over and under set up. It was produced
in various calibers and gauges. For instance, a 20 ga. barrel underneath with a .22 caliper barrel above.
Or a .410 ga. underneath with a .30-30 on top.
Generally designed with a lock that allows single shot. There is a small finger lever on the hammer that
allows you to switch to the over or under barrel.

So, you don't waste ammo. If you don't have a clear shot, you don't take it.

Here is a quick link to a photo/advert of the general concept. From "Crazy Ivan" no less. No affiliation on my
part, just a matter of a convenient quick search/link.


Link www.gunandgame.com...

Best,

It's a toss up, really. Depends on your munitions. If you have 50,000 .22 rounds in the same space you have 500 .12 gauge rounds, I'd go with more ammo.

However, .22 shells are not reloadable. In a true SHTF scenario, you'd want a shotgun shell reloader, extra primer caps, (a box of a thousand or so), 50 lbs. of gunpowder, and a bag of buckshot. You could also have lead, and a bullet mold, and make slugs for the .12 gauge. You'd also save ever shell you spent, for reloading, aye?

Not to burst your bubble, but I plan on switching to bow, and saving my munitions.

Two of my favorite calibers. I used to squirrel hunt with an old ruger 10/22 when the leaves were gone and a old stevens 12 gauge for when the leaves were on the trees. And imo they are some of the best choices for survival also because the ammo is common and can be found almost anywhere. The funny thing about my shotgun is it has no serial numbers on it the only thing it says on it is patented Aug. 12 1913 and holds a very tight pattern.

I am currently being trained by Rhodesians to track people. If you know anything about Rhodesians. Pretty much anyone that survives into their 30's is a bad-ass.

Anyway, These guys swear by .22's for any small to medium sized game. If it is smaller than a lion, .22 is the way to go.
I am inclined to take their word for it.

Originally posted by Wildmanimal
reply to post by 46ACE

 

What you really need is the old time "Farmers Special." It is an over and under set up. It was produced
in various calibers and gauges. For instance, a 20 ga. barrel underneath with a .22 caliper barrel above.
Or a .410 ga. underneath with a .30-30 on top.
Generally designed with a lock that allows single shot. There is a small finger lever on the hammer that
allows you to switch to the over or under barrel.

So, you don't waste ammo. If you don't have a clear shot, you don't take it.

Here is a quick link to a photo/advert of the general concept. From "Crazy Ivan" no less. No affiliation on my
part, just a matter of a convenient quick search/link.


Link www.gunandgame.com...

Best,

Savage24(popular;command big bucks up here when somebody will sell one)ortherussian "remington"(baikal made) spartan"been looking at them. already..Local gander mountain's got one for $300 its a steal!

Haven't bought one of the over under combos because I i was going back and forth over just a simple h&R singleshot12ga.Fora woods running gun that will be carried alot but shot minimally.

Wisconsin DNR frowns on taking grouse with a single projectile so that takes a little shine off the .22 as long as" ranger rick" is in his pickup.

I just like "simple" and every National Geographic special I've ever seen about some lost tribe in the amazon basin has been surviving years without modern contact had been living on monkey meat from the villages "one community gun"( usually a rusty old worn break open 12 ga single shot).


I know they kick like a mule ( they are light ); but I will be carrying it more than shooting it) i.e. I won't be shooting it like a.22 and I'm already stocked with plenty of 12ga for my 870.
a Lee load-all shotshell reloader press is only around$45.00(new) complete So yes: "reload-ability" is a big plus!

Dave Canterbury had a video where he used one like a muzzleloader for blackpowder.You take the empty hull, replace the spent primer with afresh one. put the primed empty hull in the shotgun close it load it like a muzzle loading black powder shotgun. Works! just reprime the hull in the field.

Originally posted by watchitburn
I am currently being trained by Rhodesians to track people. If you know anything about Rhodesians. Pretty much anyone that survives into their 30's is a bad-ass.

Anyway, These guys swear by .22's for any small to medium sized game. If it is smaller than a lion, .22 is the way to go.
I am inclined to take their word for it.

That's pretty cool; I agree they would be a reliable source of hardcore in the dirt experience.. what else can they teach us?

I would love to get a .22LR because they are so useful for everything aside from big game. The only guns I currently have and would take with me are both capable of blowing almost anything in half.

My Ruger .44 SuperBlackHawk w/10" Barrel

i5.photobucket.com...

I eventually will get this gun refurbished as the bluing is starting to come off (It's older than I am, and I'm 33)
I want to get a pistol scope fitted to it at some point.

And my Remington 870 with RIS rails, scope and a rifled barrel. Currently I only use SABOT Hollowpoint slugs with this barrel because I can't afford to buy a smoothbore for standard ammo, but at some point I will get it.


i5.photobucket.com...

Either would be great for a survival scenario because they can be reloaded and have enough stopping power to take down almost anything, including small Hyundai's.

For whatever reason the pictures make the guns look horrible. They aren't discolored like they appear to be, and they aren't rusted either. It's just strange what my old camera did to the objects in the pictures. I have since bought a new camera.....

King

Everybody should have a .22 rifle and a 12 gauge shotgun the shoots 2 3/4" shells..Most of the deer that are taken in the US is by poachers using .22 rifles.... Snipers during the Korean war used .22 magnums because they could conceal themselves very close to the enemy who would send out a patrol to find them only to pass them by. Because of the relatively quiet report of the rifle they would travel way beyond in effort to find the sniper. ... I do think that if you don't live in an area with a lot of vegetation, a high powered rifle would be nice to have due to less cover for yourself and the animal you are hunting... For example in East Texas you easily can get within 30 to 50 feet from a deer in broad daylight... In the Hill Country you have to be able to hit at 75 to 200 yards or better... I have been considering a cross bow because it would not alert anyone that is hungry that you have taken any game they may want to mooch or take from you... It wouldn't be a bad idea to use traps to catch nocturnal critters like wild hogs, opossum and raccoon.

reply to post by 46ACE

A 10-22 is one rifle that one would need for small game hunting. 12ga shotguns of any type also handy (having three myself) But do not overlook the smaller gauges of shotguns as well. 16ga or 20ga can bring down small game birds like doves ect.. Even the .410 or .28 can go a long way as for hunting, and the ammo is much lighter than the 12ga. Just some food for thought..

I don't have a 10 .22 but have been thinking about getting either one of them or a Henry lever action or possible their pump action .22.. I'm getting to be an old man and may be better off with an optical sight opposed to open sights and that bothers me a lot... I have only hunted with a scoped rifle once and did pretty good with it... It was a night hunt for wild hogs I was using a borrowed 25 06 and it was the first time I had hunted in 15 years yet I killed 6 of the 12 hogs taken by myself and 3 guys that hunted every chance they got... I guess I have the Marine Corps to thank for that.

If i was preparing for things as they are now i would choose the 10-.22 and extra 10 shot rotary mags since I have never seen one fail.

But I am preparing for the PAW. This comes from intensive study of various PAW fiction works and distilling the future problems out to a list and matching that. Those potential things like wild dog packs and even packs of cyotes are exactly what happens when you get to that point. Bears angry because your on their turff and the various scoundrels are another set of issues. For me its the sks or ak platform. Rapid firepower in a compromise of an almost big game round.

In the PAW you will not risk taking game shots with a .22 and alerting everyone with your presence. If you make it there you will trap and snare. For dog packs even if you have a 25 rd mag the .22 might be a little weak when your working multiple targets that have surrounded you and are lunging in with their ivories.

The shotgun, sounds like a good choice in theory, however it wakes up the neighborhood and its low tube capacity may not be your friend when dealing with dog packs. You dont want a disease infested bite while your loading your tube.

So for the future PAW times I have crossed them both off. I probably wont risk taking any shots unless its on deer or elk and in rare cases when I cant take them with other, quieter means. If I didnt have to prepare against the packs it would be a bolt action mauser as the bullet diameter and charge give an unusual report that doesnt pinpoint easy like the .308 and 30.06

Just some thoughts to add to the puzzle.

Originally posted by Shadowalker
If i was preparing for things as they are now i would choose the 10-.22 and extra 10 shot rotary mags since I have never seen one fail.

But I am preparing for the PAW. This comes from intensive study of various PAW fiction works and distilling the future problems out to a list and matching that. Those potential things like wild dog packs and even packs of cyotes are exactly what happens when you get to that point. Bears angry because your on their turff and the various scoundrels are another set of issues. For me its the sks or ak platform. Rapid firepower in a compromise of an almost big game round.

In the PAW you will not risk taking game shots with a .22 and alerting everyone with your presence. If you make it there you will trap and snare. For dog packs even if you have a 25 rd mag the .22 might be a little weak when your working multiple targets that have surrounded you and are lunging in with their ivories.

The shotgun, sounds like a good choice in theory, however it wakes up the neighborhood and its low tube capacity may not be your friend when dealing with dog packs. You dont want a disease infested bite while your loading your tube.

So for the future PAW times I have crossed them both off. I probably wont risk taking any shots unless its on deer or elk and in rare cases when I cant take them with other, quieter means. If I didnt have to prepare against the packs it would be a bolt action mauser as the bullet diameter and charge give an unusual report that doesnt pinpoint easy like the .308 and 30.06

Just some thoughts to add to the puzzle.

In my younger days, while hiking in the Daniel Boone National Forest, I happen on a pack of dogs. I only was packing a .38 wheel gun, but that was enough. The first shot, they went packing! Dogs, coyotes they know what that sound is and will not stay around once that first shot is made. Real life is different than the movies, Bears, now that maybe a different story, but here black bears even tend to part ways after they hear a loud shot..

Why not pack BOTH

More interesting info
.22lr lethality discussion
( specifically not "stopping power")


www.snipershide.com...

I say .22 hands down , it can take down most game including some large game with a nicely placed shot. Another thing is that in 1 12 gauge shell you gan roughly hold 50 .22LR rounds.

Originally posted by hillbilly4rent
Why not pack BOTH

(Just discovered your imagelink( i.e "both""): I'm looking at one of those tomorrow.Our gander mtn store has one.I like it)

Because I can only carry so much, and I can only bring ONE to bear on target at a time. .
And Everyone loves a simple "elegant" solution.
realistically the.22lr does everything I'll ever "realistically" need to do. as long as I do my part.