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Originally posted by tgidkp
100% incorrect.
Thomas Payne argued strongly in favor of what he called "factions". and this became one of the central themes in drafting the constitution.
it is also not true that "only two parties are allowed".
further, I guess I am going to have to be "that Guy" and point out that America does not have a direct democracy. it is a democratic republic.
so, all in all, I would say that this OP has rather handily misunderstood American politics.
Originally posted by Cuervo
Originally posted by tgidkp
100% incorrect.
Thomas Payne argued strongly in favor of what he called "factions". and this became one of the central themes in drafting the constitution.
it is also not true that "only two parties are allowed".
further, I guess I am going to have to be "that Guy" and point out that America does not have a direct democracy. it is a democratic republic.
so, all in all, I would say that this OP has rather handily misunderstood American politics.
Someday people will have to come to terms with the fact that the founding fathers never wanted us to stagnate with their antiquated ideas. People who stick to the letter of their legacy and not the spirit are what keeps us from moving forward.
And, no, more than two parties are not allowed in contemporary politics. If you think that's not true then go ahead and start another one and see how much support you'll get from the media or lobbies who already have a few republicans and democrats in their pockets. Remove the money and maybe you would be correct.
All in all , I would say the OP has a very realistic grasp on American politics. It's you who I think has an unrealistic view of a fair and just democracy. Also, I know this might sting you a bit, but to hell with what they wanted during America's inception! America is whatever Americans want it to be, not what a bunch of dead slavers wanted.
Originally posted by GeorgiaGirl
"Not allowed" and "hasn't happened yet" are not the same thing. I actually would LOVE to see more parties. Unfortunately, every time people try to start one, the PEOPLE of the US don't support it.
Originally posted by GeorgiaGirl
I despise seeing people like you running down the founding fathers. They were very wise, and when America actually followed the plan they laid out, America boomed. It's recently, when we have strayed from the Constitution, that government has become too central in EVERY facet of our lives. TOO much government is the problem.
Originally posted by GeorgiaGirl
One final thing...You many not realize it, but there are a LOT of Americans who want it to be the America laid out in the Constitution. If we go with your thoughts, "America is whatever Americans want it to be", you might be surprised at what Americans REALLY want. America is bigger than you and your circle of Constitution hating friends.
While Washington accepts the fact that it is natural for people to organize and operate within groups like political parties, he also argues that every government has recognized political parties as an enemy and has sought to repress them because of their tendency to seek more power than other groups and take revenge on political opponents.
Washington goes on to acknowledge the fact that parties are sometimes beneficial in promoting liberty in monarchies, but argues that political parties must be restrained in a popularly elected government because of their tendency to distract the government from their duties, create unfounded jealousies among groups and regions, raise false alarms amongst the people, promote riots and insurrection, and provide foreign nations and interests access to the government where they can impose their will upon the country.
Originally posted by Cuervo
That's exactly my point. It is not allowed and never will be as long as money and other oligarchical interests control politics.
I agree. It's when people put the constitution above the populace's demands that I start to doubt some peoples' intentions when they defend the letter and not the spirit of their words. The founders themselves would agree.
Then that's what it will be! I don't hate the constitution. To the contrary, I love it and one of the things I love the most about it is the fact we can make amendments to it. That's my point. When I say America is whatever Americans want it to be, I'm referring to the constitution reflecting this as well. Again, it's when people place the constitution on a pedestal above "we the people" that I start to get disappointed in people.edit on 8-10-2011 by Cuervo because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Cuervo
Originally posted by GeorgiaGirl
"Not allowed" and "hasn't happened yet" are not the same thing. I actually would LOVE to see more parties. Unfortunately, every time people try to start one, the PEOPLE of the US don't support it.
That's exactly my point. It is not allowed and never will be as long as money and other oligarchical interests control politics.
Originally posted by GeorgiaGirl
I despise seeing people like you running down the founding fathers. They were very wise, and when America actually followed the plan they laid out, America boomed. It's recently, when we have strayed from the Constitution, that government has become too central in EVERY facet of our lives. TOO much government is the problem.
I agree. It's when people put the constitution above the populace's demands that I start to doubt some peoples' intentions when they defend the letter and not the spirit of their words. The founders themselves would agree.
Originally posted by GeorgiaGirl
One final thing...You many not realize it, but there are a LOT of Americans who want it to be the America laid out in the Constitution. If we go with your thoughts, "America is whatever Americans want it to be", you might be surprised at what Americans REALLY want. America is bigger than you and your circle of Constitution hating friends.
Then that's what it will be! I don't hate the constitution. To the contrary, I love it and one of the things I love the most about it is the fact we can make amendments to it. That's my point. When I say America is whatever Americans want it to be, I'm referring to the constitution reflecting this as well. Again, it's when people place the constitution on a pedestal above "we the people" that I start to get disappointed in people.edit on 8-10-2011 by Cuervo because: (no reason given)